Parliamentary Search

Debate on bill on Monday, 26 June 2006, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top. The answering member was Andrew Turner.

Charities Bill

Charities Bill (HL).Second reading debate agreed to on question. Programme motion on procedings in Committee, on Report and Third reading agreed to on question (formal). Queens consent signified. Money resolution agreed to on question (formal).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
448 c21-98 
Session
2005-06
Department
Cabinet Office
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Programme motions
Money resolutions
Queen's consent
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
David Drew | 448 c31 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised that the fiscal regime for charities is not addressed in the Bill and I hope that we ...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c31 (Link to this contribution) I hear my hon. Friend, but the problem is that his ““opaque area”” carries a bill of about £500 mill...
Show all contributions (129)
Lord Cormack | 448 c27 (Link to this contribution) The Minister gave a most helpful answer to my earlier intervention. I accept the point made by the r...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c27-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman. I hope that I have made it clear to the House that I would encourage the...
Tom Levitt | 448 c27 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend knows that many independent schools have excellent drama, sporting, field study...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c27 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. We intend to ensure that we get the best educational opportunitie...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c31 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an important point. We are working with the Charity Commission so that we have...
James Duddridge | 448 c29 (Link to this contribution) Would the Minister react warmly to the tabling of amendments that would allow people with learning d...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c29-31 (Link to this contribution) I never like to make commitments on amendments, but I should be very surprised if that were not alre...
Daniel Kawczynski | 448 c31 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. Drew) raised a very important question. In Shrewsbury, the League of...
Tom Levitt | 448 c34-5 (Link to this contribution) I was present at the conference at which the Prime Minister gave his speech on Thursday, as was the ...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c32 (Link to this contribution) That is a fair point, and many such points can be made. However, our investment in the health servic...
Daniel Kawczynski | 448 c32 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is being charitable.
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c32 (Link to this contribution) I am. Part 4 contains the final provisions, including one that will require the Government to commi...
Andrew Turner | 448 c32-3 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and her Parliamentary Secretary to their new resp...
Andrew Turner | 448 c33 (Link to this contribution) I shall return to the issue of the 19th-century philanthropic view of charities, but of course I agr...
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c33 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman unsurprisingly pledges loyalty to the views of his party leader. He referred to t...
Andrew Turner | 448 c34 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on getting to point 2 on the parliamentary Labour party sheet. My ...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c26 (Link to this contribution) The measure means that every organisation that seeks charitable status will have to be clear about h...
Alun Michael | 448 c26-7 (Link to this contribution) I welcome my right hon. Friend’s reference to the engagement of Parliament in the process. She is wi...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c27 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend understands well how Ministers approach such matters. There are frequently so m...
Andrew Turner | 448 c25 (Link to this contribution) The Minister mentioned that charities would have to have ““identifiable benefits””, so will she expl...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c25-6 (Link to this contribution) The issue is based at the moment on case law. I know that religions could mention some significant a...
Martin Horwood | 448 c26 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has been clear about some of the organisations that would not be affected by the Bill’s...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c25 (Link to this contribution) I can give the hon. Gentleman a clear reassurance that that will not be the case. However, I would l...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c25 (Link to this contribution) That will be for the Charity Commission to determine, but any charity already has to publish annuall...
Andrew Turner | 448 c39 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely the point that I was trying—clearly unsuccessfully—to make. The good, other than p...
Meg Hillier | 448 c39 (Link to this contribution) In my constituency, there are many groups of different faiths, and it would be hard for me to find a...
Martin Horwood | 448 c39 (Link to this contribution) It seems to me to be fairly demonstrable that if a large number of people take comfort from prayer—t...
Ed Miliband | 448 c40 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way during his extraordinary speech. Does he agree wi...
Andrew Turner | 448 c40 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman fails to recall what was happening at that time. Challenges were put to some char...
Andrew Turner | 448 c38 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for having attempted to explain a difficult point. I would like...
Alun Michael | 448 c38-9 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that even if the presumption remains, such organisations ought to sho...
Andrew Turner | 448 c39 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that it is possible to come up with an example of an organisation for the relief of p...
David Drew | 448 c44 (Link to this contribution) On the roles and functions of organisations, the number of social enterprise organisations is clearl...
Alan Milburn | 448 c44 (Link to this contribution) I shall resist the temptation to name them. However, 1601 was also the year when charities legislati...
Alan Milburn | 448 c42-4 (Link to this contribution) It is an unusual event, at least nowadays, that a Government Bill receives an almost universal welco...
Alan Milburn | 448 c44-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made an extremely good point. The voluntary sector is now characterised by huge d...
Andrew Turner | 448 c40 (Link to this contribution) There are two answers to that. First, since 1891 that has not been the case. That was codified at th...
Alan Milburn | 448 c40-1 (Link to this contribution) I, too, will ask the hon. Gentleman a simple question. He knows that public benefit is at the heart ...
Andrew Turner | 448 c41-2 (Link to this contribution) That question is somewhat premature. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will find out before th...
Ed Miliband | 448 c40 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to get into an argument with the hon. Gentleman about tax versus public expenditure an...
Andrew Turner | 448 c40 (Link to this contribution) We must balance the benefit that comes from demonstrating that against the loss to charities and the...
Andrew Turner | 448 c37 (Link to this contribution) In my speech, which the hon. Gentleman kindly described as mediocre, I was about to say that we will...
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c37 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for releasing his iron grip on what is a mediocre speech. Can he say whet...
Andrew Turner | 448 c35 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is absolutely right. I have no dispute with that at all.
Andrew Turner | 448 c36-7 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I was talking about any kind of nightmare at all. I was saying that there is a gr...
Tom Levitt | 448 c36 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman should read the Prime Minister’s speech of last Thursday in which he identified t...
Andrew Turner | 448 c35 (Link to this contribution) Of course, we all welcome the sentiment. The question is how long it will take the Prime Minister to...
Meg Hillier | 448 c35 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is being dismissive of the important step that the Prime Minister announced. I sp...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c38 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman has misunderstood the Bill. He is absolutely right in saying that a ...
Andrew Turner | 448 c38 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the right hon. Lady.
Andrew Turner | 448 c38 (Link to this contribution) I am asking Ministers, either now or in Committee, to justify requiring organisations for the relief...
Martin Horwood | 448 c38 (Link to this contribution) Am I right in thinking that the hon. Gentleman is therefore retreating even from the position of his...
Andrew Turner | 448 c37-8 (Link to this contribution) I am concerned about the impact on schools such as Shrewsbury, but I must say that I am far more con...
Daniel Kawczynski | 448 c37 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend mentioned that private schools will be affected. He will know that one of the best pr...
Andrew Turner | 448 c37 (Link to this contribution) I can assure the hon. Gentleman that he did not hear those words. I prefer to look at the presumpti...
John Grogan | 448 c73-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend, East (James Duddridge), ...
Tom Levitt | 448 c76-7 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Selby (Mr. Grogan). We have many int...
Martin Horwood | 448 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) Again, I am grateful to the Minister. I suspect that we may be citing different parts of what the Ch...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c57 (Link to this contribution) The Charity Commission goes on to say that it would have to be absolutely clear that any further—I c...
Martin Horwood | 448 c61;448 c61-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, both for giving way and for comments he has made on matte...
Alun Michael | 448 c58-60 (Link to this contribution) I welcome my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office to her new role. I also congratul...
Andrew Mitchell | 448 c65-70 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to be allowed to speak in this debate this afternoon, in view of Mr. Speaker’s ru...
Alun Michael | 448 c61-4 (Link to this contribution) There are organisations, such as the National Council for Voluntary Organisations, that would like t...
James Duddridge | 448 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) I fully support what the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (David Lepper) said about chugging. Whil...
David Lepper | 448 c70-2 (Link to this contribution) First, I place on record that I am a trustee of a small local charity, Ardis, that is based in Brigh...
Alan Milburn | 448 c48 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting and telling point. I received an interesting letter from the...
Alan Milburn | 448 c48-9 (Link to this contribution) Yes. It is confusing—the schools are public but they are private. When I say private, I mean public....
Bob Russell | 448 c49 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for my late arrival at the debate—I had other parliamentary commitments this afternoon. ...
Alan Milburn | 448 c46-7 (Link to this contribution) Thank you to my supposed hon. Friend, or whatever he is. I will come to precisely that point in a fe...
John Bercow | 448 c48 (Link to this contribution) I am listening with great interest to the right hon. Gentleman’s comments. There are great dangers i...
Alan Milburn | 448 c48 (Link to this contribution) For the hon. Gentleman’s benefit, political parties have a rating of 1 per cent. I am not sure wheth...
Martin Horwood | 448 c56 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that intervention. It bodes well for Committee, where we may be ab...
Martin Horwood | 448 c53-6 (Link to this contribution) I must declare some non-pecuniary interests, as a member of the Institute of Fundraising, a patron o...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c56 (Link to this contribution) I support the way in which the people to whom the hon. Gentleman has been talking are speaking about...
Alan Milburn | 448 c51-2 (Link to this contribution) We addressed that point in questioning the various representatives of the private school sector who ...
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c51 (Link to this contribution) In the ““costs”” column of the cost-benefit analysis applying to private schools, my right hon. Frie...
Alan Milburn | 448 c51 (Link to this contribution) I think that I have done quite a bit of urging already in my speech, but the hon. Gentleman is right...
Andrew Mitchell | 448 c51 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman knows that that was the key point raised in the scrutiny Committee, and the...
Alan Milburn | 448 c51 (Link to this contribution) We are not discussing any form of tax relief, but leaving that aside, I think it no bad thing to ask...
Andrew Turner | 448 c51 (Link to this contribution) Would the right hon. Gentleman apply that to any form of tax relief?
Helen Goodman | 448 c95 (Link to this contribution) I must apologise. I was misled about when the winding-up speeches would begin, which is why I should...
Speaker | 448 c38 (Link to this contribution) Order. The right hon. Lady has made her point.
Meg Hillier | 448 c33 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman canters through his proposals and comments on the Bill, will he tell me whethe...
John Grogan | 448 c82 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, but does he accept that an amendment to deal with unduly rest...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c21 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. The Bill is part of a renewed drive by the ...
Andrew Selous | 448 c21 (Link to this contribution) : Will the right hon. Lady give way?
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c21 (Link to this contribution) It is a bit early, but yes. I have not got into my speech yet.
Andrew Selous | 448 c21 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady is very gracious. I apologise for intervening a little early on. Will she assure...
Bob Spink | 448 c22 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady also reassure universities and the higher education sector that research an...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c21-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might like to wait to hear what I say about that, but I am confident that religio...
Alan Milburn | 448 c49-51 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might want to put that point to the provost of Eton rather than to me. The Bill...
Bob Spink | 448 c25 (Link to this contribution) I seek further clarification. When a charity registers, it must establish that it is working its act...
David Lepper | 448 c37 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman back to a comment he made a few moments ago. I paused before intervening b...
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c46 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend eulogises the benefits that he asserts have resulted from partnerships between ...
Mark Todd | 448 c86-8 (Link to this contribution) I am glad to have caught your eye, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I noted in the early part of the debate the ...
Celia Barlow | 448 c83-6 (Link to this contribution) A charity is an organisation that serves the public good and an institution that benefits people. Ap...
Gary Streeter | 448 c88-9 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to make a guest appearance, on a one-off basis—it is very charitable of me—on behalf ...
Tom Levitt | 448 c77-80 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, which is why it is important that there are organisati...
Lord Deben | 448 c77 (Link to this contribution) In discussing the public perception of charities, does the hon. Gentleman agree that there will alwa...
Tom Levitt | 448 c80-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. I am sure that for some small charities that is the right way...
Martin Horwood | 448 c80 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for sharing with us the breadth of his expertise in the voluntary sector....
Tom Levitt | 448 c82-3 (Link to this contribution) I am confident that the latter sort of school that my hon. Friend describes would not be able to dem...
Ed Miliband | 448 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) I understand the hon. Gentleman’s role in speaking eloquently for those charities, but if we make an...
Ed Miliband | 448 c93-4 (Link to this contribution) It is a great privilege to wind up this debate. It has been an excellent debate with some thoughtful...
Andrew Mitchell | 448 c94 (Link to this contribution) The new Minister is doing very well, but he says that the issue is where to strike the balance. I ho...
Martin Horwood | 448 c92 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman describes the removal of the presumption of public benefit as controversial, but ...
Gary Streeter | 448 c92-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman made that point earlier. It was not very good then and it is not very good now. I...
Ed Miliband | 448 c98 (Link to this contribution) We are looking at the issue of Northern Ireland and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his interven...
Ed Miliband | 448 c96-8 (Link to this contribution) There is a two-part process: the first will involve the Charity Commission and the public collection...
Stephen Pound | 448 c98 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a cogent case that is actually persuading me to support the Government, but wil...
Gary Streeter | 448 c89-92 (Link to this contribution) Being a lawyer was a proper job, was it not? What did the hon. Gentleman do? I used to advise start...
Lord Cormack | 448 c25 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady will know that the Christian Institute, among other bodies, has expressed concer...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c22 (Link to this contribution) Again, I shall deal with that specifically later in my speech, so I should be extremely grateful if ...
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c22 (Link to this contribution) Bracketed with my right hon. Friend’s very popular assertion that she does not want the legal profes...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c22 (Link to this contribution) I am anxious to get into the meat of my speech, but I will take this further intervention.
John Bercow | 448 c22 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Lady give way?
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c22-4 (Link to this contribution) Again, I shall deal with that later in my speech. The hon. Gentleman says that he wants to deal with...
John Bercow | 448 c22 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the right hon. Lady, who has certainly been very generous at an early sta...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c24-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, whose main interest is in motor sport, recognises that we are, for the first time, c...
Richard Burden | 448 c24 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Bill, which contains many useful provisions. Will my right hon. Friend comment on one ...
Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top | 448 c22 (Link to this contribution) I have learned already that there are incredible legal issues here, and I do not want to say anythin...
Tom Levitt | 448 c31 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend describes some welcome changes in regulation that involve some significant new ...
Subjects
Education Poverty Accountability Charities Charity Commission Charitable donations Finance Fees and charges Licensing Exemptions Fundraising Private education Universities Regulation Registration Schools Religion Taxation Sports Voluntary work Charitable incorporated organisations Charity Tribunal
Legislation
Charities Bill (HL) 2005-06
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk