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Debate on bill and Committee of the Whole House (HC) on Tuesday, 28 November 2006, in the House of Commons, led by Ed Balls. The answering member was Mark Hoban.

Investment Exchanges and Clearing Houses Bill

Investment Exchanges and Clearing Houses Bill. Order relating to allocation of time. Second reading debate agreed to on question. Committed to a Committee of the Whole House. Committee stage. Clauses 1-5 agreed to. Report stage (formal). Third reading debate, agreed to on question. Passed.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
453 c985-1049 
Session
2006-07
Department
Treasury
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Third reading
Report stage
Second reading
Procedure
Allocation of time motions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Vincent Cable | 453 c1007 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that one or other of those Members is going to try to reassure me.
Lord Redwood | 453 c1007 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has completely misunderstood the proposals. The Bill is not trying to block Ameri...
Show all contributions (131)
Vincent Cable | 453 c1007 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to the Sarbanes-Oxley legislation, and what it might entail, later. The issue here is w...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1007 (Link to this contribution) The two exchanges in the United States have a different interpretation. They have given public assur...
Ed Balls | 453 c1007 (Link to this contribution) I just want to make it absolutely clear—I have made exactly the same point to the chief executives o...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1007 (Link to this contribution) I am more mystified than ever. If the Economic Secretary has absolutely no problem with the two Amer...
Ed Balls | 453 c1007 (Link to this contribution) To develop the point further, not only have I discussed the purpose of the Bill with those two Ameri...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1010 (Link to this contribution) Certain aspects of the legislation have been found to be excessive, and I understand that at the beh...
Lord Redwood | 453 c1010 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that listings in America have declined while in London they have ...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1009 (Link to this contribution) What the hon. Gentleman says is absolutely true. It suggests that there is a self-regulating process...
Mark Field | 453 c1009 (Link to this contribution) In describing the historical lesson of what happened in the United States, is the hon. Gentleman not...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1007-8 (Link to this contribution) No doubt the Economic Secretary will get an opportunity to reply later. Let me develop my scepticism...
Stewart Hosie | 453 c1008 (Link to this contribution) I am following the hon. Gentleman’s argument as closely as I can. He seems to be suggesting that whe...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1011 (Link to this contribution) There is an important distinction between the examples that the hon. Gentleman cited—such as the tak...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1010-1 (Link to this contribution) I thought that we were. I keep coming back to what I thought was the purpose of the proposed legisla...
Stewart Hosie | 453 c1010 (Link to this contribution) I seek a little more clarity. Many of the issues we are discussing are about specific commercial com...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1010 (Link to this contribution) There is an element of truth in what the right hon. Gentleman says. I do not pretend to be an author...
Lord Redwood | 453 c996 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that, if sensibly interpreted, the Bill is a bit of a first? It provides s...
Mark Hoban | 453 c996 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for making that point. There is a great deal in what he says, ...
Ed Balls | 453 c996 (Link to this contribution) On that point, does the hon. Gentleman agree that, in order to make sure that we keep that deregulat...
Rob Marris | 453 c999 (Link to this contribution) On the framework, is the hon. Gentleman surprised that shareholder protection or consumer protection...
Mark Hoban | 453 c996-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, although the Minister is in danger of trespassing on the detailed scrutiny of the Bill in Co...
Mark Hoban | 453 c999 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises a point about the context in which the Bill should be considered. Of cours...
David Gauke | 453 c999 (Link to this contribution) On whether a requirement is excessive, proposed new section 300A(3) includes a test of whether somet...
Mark Hoban | 453 c999 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is trying to make an important point. He is trying to find out whether there is a...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1000 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. My hon. Friend has practised in that area of law, and he demonstrates his knowledge and unde...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1000-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right that those things did not happen in the UK. We did not suffer from the e...
Lord Redwood | 453 c1000 (Link to this contribution) The suggestion made by the hon. Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris) is dangerous, beca...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1000 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is quite right. The narrow focus of the Bill and the way in which it has been d...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1005-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bristol, East (Kerry McCarthy), whose presentation wa...
Kerry McCarthy | 453 c1003-5 (Link to this contribution) As I said, we should never be complacent. It is easy to portray the Barings situation as the consequ...
Lord Redwood | 453 c1003 (Link to this contribution) Surely the hon. Lady is experienced enough to know that there is no regulatory system in the world t...
Kerry McCarthy | 453 c1001-3 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak in the debate. I welcome my hon. Friend the Minister’s...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1006 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is being a little too defensive. I was not suggesting for a moment that there was a pro...
Ed Balls | 453 c1006 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that Morgan Stanley, Merrill Lynch and Goldman Sachs are all important...
David Gauke | 453 c1046 (Link to this contribution) On Second Reading, I raised the issue of democratic accountability, which, as far as I have heard, h...
Ed Balls | 453 c1046-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. This Bill amends the Financial Services a...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1047-8 (Link to this contribution) I echo the thanks expressed by the Economic Secretary in his opening remarks. The Bill is important...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1049 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the positive conclusion that we have reached. In my contributions, I had initially intende...
Rob Marris | 453 c1045 (Link to this contribution) This matter has been adverted to earlier, and I wonder whether my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary...
Ed Balls | 453 c1045-6 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. Let me start by thanking you, Madam Deputy...
Ed Balls | 453 c1045 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the opportunity to make the provision clear. The clause provides...
Ed Balls | 453 c1042 (Link to this contribution) I think that the answer to the hon. Gentleman’s question is no. I hope that that gives him sufficien...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1042 (Link to this contribution) I am always grateful for a longer answer from the Economic Secretary. Now, when people raise this qu...
Rob Marris | 453 c1042 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly confused by the hon. Gentleman’s remarks. On Second Reading, he seemed to be against e...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1042 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is, as ever, sharp in pointing out potential contradictions. I am trying to highl...
Rob Marris | 453 c1044 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend talks about fettering the FSA’s discretion, and I understand that point. However, its...
Ed Balls | 453 c1044-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This will all become much clearer when the FSA consults on the r...
Rob Marris | 453 c1042-3 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a few brief remarks, first on the deemed refusal periods in proposed new sections 300...
Ed Balls | 453 c1044 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made a most interesting point, and admission. During the passage of the Finance B...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1041 (Link to this contribution) I was about to sit down, but I will give way in the spirit of consensus that has characterised the d...
Rob Marris | 453 c1041 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mark Hoban | 453 c1040 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 7, in clause 2, page 3, line 20, at end insert ‘, and
Stewart Hosie | 453 c1040 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman’s intentions. However, let me give an analogy with the planning syst...
Ed Balls | 453 c1041 (Link to this contribution) In any matter where consultation is required it is important to ensure that everybody is properly co...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1041 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right to say that we should have clear, straightforward legislation. However, it was...
David Leslie Taylor | 453 c1039 (Link to this contribution) Is the Economic Secretary saying that the Sarbanes-Oxley Act is a disproportionate overreaction by t...
Ed Balls | 453 c1039 (Link to this contribution) Today, I had lunch with the US Treasury Secretary, Mr. Hank Paulson, who shared a platform two weeks...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1039 (Link to this contribution) I am also not aware of any concern about the existing rule books, and the strength of the UK capital...
Ed Balls | 453 c1040 (Link to this contribution) I was not trying to suggest that the hon. Gentleman had made the opposite point to me. He has wonder...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1041 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 9, in page 4, leave out lines 10 and 11. Again, the amendment deals wit...
Ed Balls | 453 c1038-9 (Link to this contribution) I understand my hon. Friend’s point, which we considered in some detail on Second Reading. The US co...
Ed Balls | 453 c1037-8 (Link to this contribution) Let me reassure the hon. Member for South-West Hertfordshire (Mr. Gauke) and my hon. Friend the Memb...
David Gauke | 453 c1038 (Link to this contribution) I take the Economic Secretary’s point about the four points in proposed new section 300A, which is h...
Ed Balls | 453 c1036 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that at no point in the debate have we used the phrase ““a low level of re...
Rob Marris | 453 c1036-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I shall check Hansard, but the term has been used from the Oppositi...
David Gauke | 453 c1035-6 (Link to this contribution) I should like to return to an issue that I have raised a couple of times, as I am concerned about vu...
Rob Marris | 453 c1036 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for South-West Hertfordshire (Mr. Gauke), who has taken up so...
Ed Balls | 453 c1034 (Link to this contribution) I accept the point that the hon. Gentleman has made, but it is for the FSA to make a judgment as to ...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1034-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Economic Secretary for his response, both to the amendment and to the contribut...
Ed Balls | 453 c1038 (Link to this contribution) The test of the reasonableness of the directive is whether the requirement is excessive under propos...
David Leslie Taylor | 453 c1038 (Link to this contribution) The Treasury has promoted the Bill as a means of protecting the London stock exchange from heavy ove...
Ed Balls | 453 c1033-4 (Link to this contribution) I welcome you as Chair of the Committee, Mrs. Heal. The drafting of the provision is subtle, and th...
Stewart Hosie | 453 c1033 (Link to this contribution) Subsection (4) says:"““In considering whether a requirement is excessive the Authority must have reg...
David Gauke | 453 c1034 (Link to this contribution) The provision states:"““In considering whether a requirement is excessive, the Authority must have r...
Chair of Committees of the Whole House | 453 c1027-8 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 2, in page 1, line 6, after...
Ed Balls | 453 c1029-31 (Link to this contribution) Let me take the amendments in two groups. Amendments Nos. 1, 3, 5 and 6 would introduce a trigger me...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1028-9 (Link to this contribution) Let me be quite clear at the start that this group of amendments, and subsequent amendments, are pro...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1031-2 (Link to this contribution) As I said earlier, this is a series of probing amendments, and we have had a useful exchange. First,...
Stewart Hosie | 453 c1031 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the Economic Secretary, particularly in his scepticism about amendment No. 1, which, as...
David Gauke | 453 c1032-3 (Link to this contribution) I have read the wording and I have a concern about its context. It says:"““In considering whether a ...
Mark Hoban | 453 c1032 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 8, in clause 1, page 2, leave out line 5 and insert
Mark Hoban | 453 c1027 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 1, in page 1, line 6, after ‘where’, insert
John Healey | 453 c1025-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Economic Secretary has indeed, as he explained to the House, had conversations wi...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1025 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether the Financial Secretary can confirm a comment that, I think, the Economic Secretary...
John Healey | 453 c1024-5 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend remains a Member for a very long time, but if he looks for a change of ca...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 453 c1021-3 (Link to this contribution) No doubt tomorrow, and we all look forward to it. I would like to respond to some of the good and e...
Andrew Love | 453 c1024 (Link to this contribution) I plead guilty to membership of the Treasury Committee, but unlike my two colleagues—my hon. Friends...
John Healey | 453 c1024 (Link to this contribution) I beg my hon. Friend’s pardon. He is a long-standing and currently serving member of the Treasury Co...
John Healey | 453 c1023-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to hon. Members on both sides of the House for the attention that they have given to t...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 453 c1021 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity during this short Third Reading debate—[Hon. Members: ““Second!””]...
Helen Goodman | 453 c1020 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether one of the problems with the City of London is the exceptionally high level of bonu...
Mark Field | 453 c1020-1 (Link to this contribution) Saved not by the bell but by you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Thank you very much indeed. Given my earlier i...
Speaker | 453 c1020 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think that the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) might take her earlier advic...
David Gauke | 453 c1016 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good and interesting point. I hope that the Financial Secretary will deal wit...
Mark Field | 453 c1016 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend, but does he agree that the Government may be displaying some consistenc...
Mark Field | 453 c1019-20 (Link to this contribution) Like other speakers, I welcome this minor but important piece of legislation and support the powers ...
Andrew Love | 453 c1016-9 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this Bill, which safeguards the regulatory regime through powers to curb disproportionate ...
David Gauke | 453 c1016 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman’s point about insider dealing. We have exchanged correspondence about that...
Rob Marris | 453 c1016 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman and I have exchanged correspondence on these matters. Does he agree that the FSA,...
David Gauke | 453 c1015 (Link to this contribution) My point is that it could be a two-stage process. Where the FSA concludes that the rule change is ex...
Rob Marris | 453 c1015 (Link to this contribution) On the first of the hon. Gentleman’s two suggested approaches, is he seriously suggesting lessening ...
David Gauke | 453 c1013-5 (Link to this contribution) I add my words of support for the Bill, which is a sensible proposal, although I have a couple of qu...
Helen Goodman | 453 c1013 (Link to this contribution) I am very happy to say that we are discussing the Bill before us, not City bonuses; however, perhaps...
Mark Field | 453 c1012 (Link to this contribution) Given the hon. Lady’s lack of ambivalence about the great success of the City of London, how does sh...
Helen Goodman | 453 c1012 (Link to this contribution) I begin by declaring an interest—my husband recently advised Deutsche Börse on its bid for Euronext....
Vincent Cable | 453 c1012 (Link to this contribution) I do understand such concerns, but is not the following point equally valid? Let us say that Deutsch...
Ed Balls | 453 c1011 (Link to this contribution) Let me give the hon. Gentleman an example that might help him. There was a concern in some parts of ...
Vincent Cable | 453 c1011 (Link to this contribution) I understand the point that the hon. Gentleman makes, and I realise that there is a clear distinctio...
Ed Balls | 453 c993 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important observation. The answer is no, not in our experience. I do not...
Mark Hoban | 453 c993-4 (Link to this contribution) First, let me make it clear that we support the Bill. Indeed, there is widespread support for it acr...
Andrew Love | 453 c994 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there is concern about regulation not only in London but in the ...
Mark Hoban | 453 c994 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right about concern in the US, which is widespread. Hank Paulson, the US Treas...
Rob Marris | 453 c994 (Link to this contribution) I understand where the hon. Gentleman is going, but may I suggest the other side of the coin? Shareh...
Mark Hoban | 453 c994-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises a quite complex point. We need to establish what constitutes the right bal...
Andrew Love | 453 c995 (Link to this contribution) The historical examples may not bear out the point that the hon. Gentleman is making. I agree that i...
Mark Hoban | 453 c995-6 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, the hon. Gentleman makes a fair point, but I hope that regulators and legislators learn thos...
Mark Field | 453 c992 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the FSA regime is somewhat different from that which applies, for example, in Wall...
Ed Balls | 453 c992 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend helpfully, as always, raises exactly my point: it is important that the FSA takes the...
Lord Redwood | 453 c988 (Link to this contribution) Why do we need a guillotine? This is about the first piece of Labour legislation that some of us act...
Ed Balls | 453 c988-90 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention; hopefully, he will make a more subst...
Ed Balls | 453 c988 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second Time. I start by expressing my gratitude for the ...
David Gauke | 453 c990-1 (Link to this contribution) May I suggest a different set of circumstances. Let us say that the FSA decides to intervene in a ch...
Ed Balls | 453 c991-2 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that we will deal with such matters in detail in Committee. Clause 1 writes into the Finan...
Lord Redwood | 453 c990 (Link to this contribution) What happens if the FSA decides that a proposed change is not burdensome and therefore takes no acti...
Ed Balls | 453 c990 (Link to this contribution) Of course there is. In this area, as in others under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000, th...
Rob Marris | 453 c999 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I did not make clear what I sought to tease out from the hon. Gentleman. A body might wish t...
Andrew Love | 453 c1000 (Link to this contribution) Surely the important factor is that scandals such as those involving Enron and WorldCom have not tak...
Rob Marris | 453 c992 (Link to this contribution) Proposed new subsection 300D(2)(c), at lines 19 and 20 on page 3 of the Bill, makes it clear that th...
Subjects
Accountability Bureaucracy Jurisdiction Investment Financial Services Authority Financial markets Ownership Powers Standards Regulation Stocks and shares Rules of procedure Takeovers USA Trade competitiveness London Stock Exchange Recognised clearing houses Recognised investment exchanges
Legislation
Investment Exchanges and Clearing Houses Bill 2006-07
Link
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