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Adjournment debate on Tuesday, 9 October 2007, in the House of Commons, led by Bob Ainsworth. The answering member was Liam Fox.

Defence Procurement

Debate on a motion for the adjournment on Defence Procurement.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
464 c197-270 
Session
2006-07
Department
Ministry of Defence
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c200 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to the subject of vehicles, and I am sure that the hon. Lady will want to intervene then...
Ann Winterton | 464 c200 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way again?
Show all contributions (145)
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c200 (Link to this contribution) Later in my speech, I shall talk about the vehicles that we use. The hon. Lady is right to say that ...
Ann Winterton | 464 c200 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will know that yesterday I welcomed the extra Mastiffs, which are extremely popular veh...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c199-200 (Link to this contribution) May I make some progress, having giving way a few times? Effective procurement needs strong front-l...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c199 (Link to this contribution) We are still working on the proposals, as the hon. Gentleman knows, and I hope that we can confirm e...
Ian Gibson | 464 c201 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way. Although I have expressed support for the capital inves...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c200-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way again in a while, but may I make a little more progress? Much of the force protect...
Bill Wiggin | 464 c198 (Link to this contribution) What discussions has the Minister had with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs ab...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c197-8 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment, perhaps even to my hon. Friend. I have seen the effect that the strate...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c198 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises a fair point. I have not looked into that—there were one or two other thin...
Ian Davidson | 464 c198 (Link to this contribution) I have waited four years and five minutes to intervene on the Minister, and I thank him for giving w...
Lindsay Hoyle | 464 c199 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is generous in accepting so many interventions early in his speech. I thank him...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c198 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend knows that he and I have had one or two conversations over the past four years, even ...
David Laws | 464 c199 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister appears to be soliciting thanks from some of us, may I thank him and Lord Drayson, w...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c199 (Link to this contribution) The aim of the defence industrial strategy is to look not only at the needs of our people but at the...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c197 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will give me just a moment. I have not spoken in the House for four years give...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c197 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to open this debate—my first as the Minister of State for the Armed Forces. It is a fan...
Ian Davidson | 464 c197 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister give way on that point?
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c203-4 (Link to this contribution) In the years that the party that the hon. Gentleman supports was in power there were massive cuts of...
Julian Lewis | 464 c203 (Link to this contribution) May I say to the Minister that we warmly welcome the announcement of the carriers? However, I remind...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c203 (Link to this contribution) That is true, but we need a range of vehicles to meet the requirements, and the demand from the fron...
Michael Jack | 464 c202 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister confirm that the initial deployment of BAE Systems' high-endurance rapid technolog...
Julian Lewis | 464 c204 (Link to this contribution) I shall tell the Minister very clearly what our policy is. Either we will fund new commitments that ...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c201 (Link to this contribution) I am not aware of a problem with the Defence Committee. I am new in the job and so far I have spoken...
Liam Fox | 464 c202 (Link to this contribution) Just for clarification, the Minister says that money has been set aside, but has that been done as a...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c202 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is clear that this is money that we have set aside within th...
Crispin Blunt | 464 c201 (Link to this contribution) I belatedly congratulate the Minister on his appointment and on this debut. He made it clear that al...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c201-2 (Link to this contribution) I have given the hon. Gentleman the figures on UORs. He understands the process, because he is well ...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c204-5 (Link to this contribution) I do not know what more I can say to my hon. Friend about our strategy and what we are trying to ach...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c205 (Link to this contribution) Let me make a little progress. I have given way a lot and I do not want to hog the debate. Our larg...
Ian Davidson | 464 c204 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend acknowledge that the work would not come to east and west Scotland if that...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c204 (Link to this contribution) We have set a course for the biggest shipbuilding programme in history, providing the Navy with worl...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 464 c212 (Link to this contribution) My concern is simply to ensure that we have the equipment that our forces need in order to do the jo...
Bob Russell | 464 c212 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is clearly well informed on these matters. The Minister refused to let me interve...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 464 c212 (Link to this contribution) I will give way very briefly to my hon. Friend.
Lord Davies of Stamford | 464 c212-5 (Link to this contribution) It goes without saying that if that is the case, the best deal will be procured from that source. I...
Lindsay Hoyle | 464 c212 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that when we have the best of British jobs and are producing the best of B...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 464 c215 (Link to this contribution) I cannot, because of the time. I hope that my hon. Friend will forgive me. This is a very important...
Andrew Murrison | 464 c219 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is aware that our indigenous defence industry is important—as are ...
Nick Harvey | 464 c216 (Link to this contribution) I see the Minister hovering and his arm coming out. I know what he is going to ask and I will give h...
Liam Fox | 464 c217 (Link to this contribution) We accept that the Government are maintaining a permanent information advantage over Parliament. If ...
Nick Harvey | 464 c217 (Link to this contribution) As I go through my remarks, I will look at the various procurements that are stretched out before us...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c216 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman lays out the pressures and the difficulties. He is right: the question is extreme...
Nick Harvey | 464 c218-9 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree with that, and I have said that the UOR has been vital in saving the day on a numb...
Lord Soames of Fletching | 464 c218 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that when a war is fought on two fronts, there is no alternative ...
Nick Harvey | 464 c218 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is asking me to put the cart before the horse, but if we are to have a strategic ...
Liam Fox | 464 c206 (Link to this contribution) What on earth is the logic of abolishing DESO and then having a cross-departmental inquiry into how ...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c206 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman needs to recognise that we need to join up our export effort in Great Britain plc...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c206 (Link to this contribution) I have given way on the point and will not give way again. Our armed forces are among the most capa...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 464 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) I am coming on to that. As a matter of fact, Defence Equipment and Support—the new version of the De...
Ann Winterton | 464 c211 (Link to this contribution) Any simple housewife will tell the hon. Gentleman that the important thing is not what one spends, b...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 464 c211 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox), who made a good speech. He ofte...
Liam Fox | 464 c209-11 (Link to this contribution) It is not often that I am happy to have words put into my mouth, especially by Members on the other ...
Lindsay Hoyle | 464 c208-9 (Link to this contribution) The other point that the hon. Gentleman ought to make is that some members of the coalition in Afgha...
Liam Fox | 464 c208 (Link to this contribution) The aim must always be to give our troops the equipment that they require, when they need it. Howeve...
Ann Winterton | 464 c208 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is describing the procurement of helicopters, and the implied costs involved. Is it w...
Liam Fox | 464 c206-8 (Link to this contribution) I begin by associating myself with the Minister's comments about our armed forces, especially those ...
Michael Jack | 464 c224-5 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Sussex (Mr. Soames), who speaks ...
Lindsay Hoyle | 464 c225 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is right to say that India is looking for aerospace technology. In fact, it...
Michael Jack | 464 c225 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who makes an excellent case for retaining DESO, as that organis...
Lord Beamish | 464 c225 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lindsay Hoyle | 464 c225 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way once more?
Michael Jack | 464 c225 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr. Jones).
Lindsay Hoyle | 464 c225 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Gerald Howarth | 464 c226 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Nick Harvey | 464 c219 (Link to this contribution) I commend the hon. Gentleman on his sharp sight. I confess that I have not seen that early-day motio...
Lindsay Hoyle | 464 c220 (Link to this contribution) The truth of the matter is that the kit is there, but there is also personal choice; soldiers always...
Nick Harvey | 464 c220 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says from a sedentary position that they are not, but serving members of the arme...
Linda Gilroy | 464 c220 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just mentioned a basic bit of kit. When was the last occasion somebody came t...
Nick Harvey | 464 c220 (Link to this contribution) I am not embroidering the story. That point the hon. Gentleman makes is exactly the same as the poin...
Nick Harvey | 464 c220-2 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite sure that I follow the hon. Gentleman's last point, but I accept that this is not a n...
Lord Soames of Fletching | 464 c222-4 (Link to this contribution) May I first warmly welcome the Minister for the Armed Forces, who is no longer in his place but who ...
Nick Harvey | 464 c220 (Link to this contribution) From memory, as recently as March this year, when I heard from people who had just come back from se...
Ben Wallace | 464 c220 (Link to this contribution) In light of the hon. Gentleman's comments about individual soldiers being driven to purchase kit, pe...
Michael Jack | 464 c227-8 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps not, but the purpose of the debate is to find out answers to some of these important questio...
Linda Gilroy | 464 c228-31 (Link to this contribution) I begin with an apology, or rather an explanation, to those on the Opposition Front Bench. It was no...
Michael Jack | 464 c226-7 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way, because time is against me and I want to proceed to ask some important question...
Crispin Blunt | 464 c231-3 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton (Linda Gilroy). I hope that she will...
Chris Ruane | 464 c233 (Link to this contribution) Many of the vehicles that the hon. Gentleman mentioned have parts, including optronics and periscope...
Ben Wallace | 464 c251 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, but my understanding of the Mastiff project is that it has been delivered because we ...
Ann Winterton | 464 c250-1 (Link to this contribution) This is not about helicopters; it is about the delivery of the Mastiff. I suspect that the US has or...
Ben Wallace | 464 c249-50 (Link to this contribution) I start by paying tribute to the armed forces who, as we speak in today's debate, are serving on Bri...
Lord Benyon | 464 c245-9 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich (Mr. Carswell), whose thought...
Willie Rennie | 464 c239-40 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I will not take any more interventions. I understand that the UK may not have the c...
Chris Ruane | 464 c239 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Robert Key | 464 c241-2 (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not give way at this stage. We may no longer be quite so concerned with the Spratleys i...
Chris Ruane | 464 c241 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Robert Key | 464 c240-1 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the House, to the Minister for the Armed Forces and to my hon. Friend the Member for ...
Crispin Blunt | 464 c235-6 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman. He should read the report, because it is a priceless exch...
Willie Rennie | 464 c236-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Reigate (Mr. Blunt) deserves a return of the compliment, but I must correct him ...
Chris Ruane | 464 c237 (Link to this contribution) In 1997, the defence budget was about £22 billion. It has gone up to £37 billion. How much do the Li...
Crispin Blunt | 464 c234 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the hon. Gentleman is convinced about 2012, because that rather belies the scepticism...
Willie Rennie | 464 c238-9 (Link to this contribution) That surprises me, because this will be one of the biggest defence projects for a number of years an...
Willie Rennie | 464 c237-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will be relieved to hear that we are in not government, but we are not in possess...
Linda Gilroy | 464 c238 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the hon. Gentleman visited Plymouth with the Select Committee on Defence, so he must ...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c238 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right that I did not mention Trident in my remarks. Just a few months ago, the...
Crispin Blunt | 464 c234 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is entirely right. One of the problems of a vehicle's remaining in service for so lon...
Lord Beamish | 464 c234 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that what has changed is the fact that Lord Drayson is determined to e...
Crispin Blunt | 464 c233-4 (Link to this contribution) I want to leave that question to the Under-Secretary, because there is an enormous amount of detail ...
Ben Wallace | 464 c234 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will not be surprised to hear that the Warrior armoured tracked vehicle has now had 3...
Ben Wallace | 464 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct. I think that a recent United States defence budget had 9,000 tags, or att...
Gerald Howarth | 464 c251 (Link to this contribution) The Belgians refused to sell us ammunition.
Ben Wallace | 464 c251-3 (Link to this contribution) I think we might have learnt our lesson: the Belgians would never really come to our rescue. Securi...
Ian Davidson | 464 c257 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Gerald Howarth | 464 c257 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very interesting debate, with contributions from nine regulars. Seven of them were O...
Ian Davidson | 464 c254-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman; if I am looking for speakers to support me I might consider inviting him...
Robert Key | 464 c254 (Link to this contribution) What hope is there of the hon. Gentleman achieving that aspiration if the Scottish National party is...
Ian Davidson | 464 c254 (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak about shipbuilding, the aircraft carrier order and how we proceed from the position ...
Ian Davidson | 464 c257 (Link to this contribution) I should regret it very much if this has not been made clear already, but my understanding is that t...
Gerald Howarth | 464 c257-9 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the whole House is grateful to the hon. Gentleman for providing an explanation that w...
Gerald Howarth | 464 c260 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good point. Ministers will have heard it, and I hope that they will give the House an...
Derek Twigg | 464 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) It is an honour and a privilege for me to work with our armed forces and veterans. I join the rest o...
Gerald Howarth | 464 c260-4 (Link to this contribution) No, emphatically not. My hon. Friend the Member for Harwich (Mr. Carswell) suggested in his slightl...
Derek Twigg | 464 c265-9 (Link to this contribution) I have told the hon. Gentleman that we are examining this. Let me make it clear that when I was talk...
Liam Fox | 464 c265 (Link to this contribution) One of the consequences of improved body armour is fewer fatalities but a higher number of casualtie...
Liam Fox | 464 c269 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister's admission that the Government must do more. However, why, with two ...
Derek Twigg | 464 c269 (Link to this contribution) When I say that we must do more, we are clear about the need for that. We have always considered way...
Crispin Blunt | 464 c269 (Link to this contribution) When will the Army get FRES? In 2003, we were told that the Army would get it in 2009; in 2007, we a...
Derek Twigg | 464 c270 (Link to this contribution) Let me complete the point that I wanted to make. My hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford...
Claire Ward | 464 c270 (Link to this contribution) I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion. Motion, by leave, withdrawn.
Derek Twigg | 464 c269-70 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman made that point in his speech. We are determined to press on and we will make an ...
Lord Benyon | 464 c270 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Under-Secretary's kind comments about me earlier. However, he has not tackled ...
Nick Harvey | 464 c215-6 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Minister to his first debate in his new role. I appreciate that it is a difficult bapt...
Lord Davies of Stamford | 464 c212 (Link to this contribution) I will give way once again, but I will not have time for any more interventions.
Crispin Blunt | 464 c253 (Link to this contribution) I understand that we lost the TRACER—tactical reconnaissance armoured combat equipment requirement—p...
Gerald Howarth | 464 c257 (Link to this contribution) I will, as this may an opportunity for the hon. Gentleman to save his seat by putting some clear blu...
Nick Harvey | 464 c217-8 (Link to this contribution) I agree. I agree also with those who have said that proper parliamentary scrutiny could improve the ...
Bob Ainsworth | 464 c205 (Link to this contribution) I shall allow the hon. Gentleman to come in soon, but I want to make a little more progress. The de...
Michael Jack | 464 c225 (Link to this contribution) My point is that, all of a sudden, a resurgent Russia has rejoined the competitive arena for aerospa...
Lindsay Hoyle | 464 c218 (Link to this contribution) Could the hon. Gentleman state clearly what his view is? He is very knowledgeable on defence and has...
Douglas Carswell | 464 c243-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a great privilege to follow the hon. Member for Salisbury (Robert Key), who spoke so eloquentl...
Lord Beamish | 464 c225 (Link to this contribution) I am very interested in what the right hon. Gentleman is saying, and I agree that the aerospace mark...
Willie Rennie | 464 c238 (Link to this contribution) I am well aware of those arguments, but I would have thought that if this were such an important pro...
Crispin Blunt | 464 c259-60 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for his kind remarks. In-service dates are an issue. The Light ...
Subjects
Contracts Armed forces Defence Army Defence equipment Armoured fighting vehicles Finance India Recruitment Procurement Staff Navy Military aircraft Ministry of Defence Scotland Small businesses Technology Research Shipbuilding Body armour Aerospace industry Russia British Aerospace Submarines Future rapid effect system Sheep meat Defence Export Services Organisation UK Trade and Investment Lynx helicopters Tide class tankers
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