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Debate on bill and Committee of the Whole House (HL) on Monday, 14 January 2008, in the House of Lords.

Climate Change Bill [HL]

Climate Change Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage fifth day. Clauses 26 to 28 agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to. Part 1 of 2 records.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
697 c1063-125 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Rooker | 697 c1063 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now again resolve itself into Committee on this Bill. Mov...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1063-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 121: 121: Clause 26, page 13, line 39, leave out ““Committee”” and insert ““Co...
Show all contributions (129)
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c1064-6 (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment because it takes forward a discussion in which I have participated on two p...
Lord Teverson | 697 c1066-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, for that useful explanation. I will go back through t...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1068-70 (Link to this contribution) I realise that Amendments Nos. 121 and 122 refer only to the name, but both the speech made by the n...
Lord Teverson | 697 c1067 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that intervention. I clearly do not disagree with him but, as I said in m...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1067 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord agree that the full title of that body is the Monetary Policy Committee of the B...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 697 c1068 (Link to this contribution) Had the noble Lord been a commissioner of the Manpower Services Commission, as I was many years ago,...
Lord Chartres | 697 c1093-4 (Link to this contribution) I can well understand the reluctance to expand the remit of this committee so far that it becomes th...
Lord Avebury | 697 c1091-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Carnegy of Lour, had made an interesting and useful point on whether the co...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 697 c1091 (Link to this contribution) To bring the discussion right down to the ground, would the committee have it in its power to discus...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c1091 (Link to this contribution) Does not my noble friend realise that the Government have a duty to do certain things, but that that...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c1090-1 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment from a specific perspective. I am fortunate in that, in my day job as presid...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c1091 (Link to this contribution) May I make my point? I know that that is not what my noble friend was referring to, but it cannot be...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1083-6 (Link to this contribution) I have counted some 14 speakers who have contributed to this debate, many of whom have made very val...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1087 (Link to this contribution) I do not have a detailed answer to the noble Baroness’s question but, because of the way it is writt...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 697 c1086-7 (Link to this contribution) On the point made by the noble Lord in referring to what my noble friend Lord Caithness said, Paragr...
Bishop of Liverpool | 697 c1087-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 124A: 124A: Schedule 1, page 32, line 8, leave out ““eight”” and insert ““nine...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1087 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for way in which he has covered all the ground in the debate. It is clear to us...
Baroness Northover | 697 c1089-90 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendments. I am glad that they have been put down and also separated out, because thi...
Baroness Young of Old Scone | 697 c1083 (Link to this contribution) I assume that I am the only Member on these Benches present who is not a Fellow of the Royal Society...
Lord Turnbull | 697 c1083 (Link to this contribution) I stand with those who favour a larger committee. The Monetary Policy Committee has nine members and...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c1082 (Link to this contribution) In responding to the issue of the size of the climate change committee, will the Minister indicate w...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c1082-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, has put his finger on the point that I wanted to make, that we cannot ...
Lord Oxburgh | 697 c1081-2 (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as a fellow of the Royal Society and of the Royal Academy of Engineering. I ha...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 697 c1081 (Link to this contribution) I think that we are all suffering from the same problem; namely, that we know the Government’s concl...
Lord Avebury | 697 c1081 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lords, Lord Rees and Lord May, mentioned engineering as a subject which has not yet been r...
Lord May of Oxford | 697 c1079-81 (Link to this contribution) I have three points to make, but first I declare an interest as the immediate predecessor of my nobl...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c1079 (Link to this contribution) Briefly, on the amendment that deals with a committee of the House of Commons, which committee is th...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c1078-9 (Link to this contribution) I strongly support my noble friend’s proposal that the size of the committee should be increased; th...
Baroness Northover | 697 c1077-8 (Link to this contribution) As we have heard, the strength, expertise and independence of the climate change committee is critic...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1072-3 (Link to this contribution) All matters must come before Parliament for approval, as they do under regulations and statutory ins...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1075-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 123: 123: Schedule 1, page 32, line 5, at end insert ““not fewer than seven an...
Lord Redesdale | 697 c1076-7 (Link to this contribution) I support what I believe are probing amendments at this stage, but I very much support the feeling b...
Lord Rees of Ludlow | 697 c1077 (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as the current president of the Royal Society, and I would like to comment on ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c1072 (Link to this contribution) What would be the role of Parliament in that event?
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1072 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply and noble Lords who participated in the debate, particularly the ...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1070-2 (Link to this contribution) It might be possible; it might mess up the nice ring of CCC. I am sure that all advice and suggestio...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1095-6 (Link to this contribution) Sometimes one starts to say ““it goes without saying”” and it is then best to say it, just to get th...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c1096 (Link to this contribution) Is it not open to the committee to consider evidence from relevant authorities?
Earl of Selborne | 697 c1094-5 (Link to this contribution) All Members of the Committee agree that we cannot look at the UK’s management of its climate change ...
Lord Teverson | 697 c1094 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrat Front Bench strongly supports the amendment. I particularly agree with my noble...
Lord Chartres | 697 c1094 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with the noble Lord that it is imperative that that dimension is considered. Having...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c1094 (Link to this contribution) Under Clause 2(2) the Secretary of State has to have cognisance of any, "““significant developments ...
Lord Teverson | 697 c1101 (Link to this contribution) While I accept much of the argument that the Minister is making, we are talking about all-round acti...
Lord Krebs | 697 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may make a slightly technical point as someone who might be described as an environmental ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c1098 (Link to this contribution) Whatever may have been said about airlines and shipping in previous debates, nothing in the Bill as ...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 697 c1098-9 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee for not having been present at the beginning of the debate on Amendment...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1099-100 (Link to this contribution) I will take advice on the last point, but I fully accept the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Broo...
Bishop of Liverpool | 697 c1096 (Link to this contribution) I am greatly encouraged by the Minister's response. It is very good to hear him say that there is no...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1097 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 128: 128: Schedule 1, page 32, line 14, at end insert— ““( ) environmental sci...
Lord Teverson | 697 c1097-8 (Link to this contribution) I speak especially to Amendments Nos. 129 and 130. I absolutely agree with the comments of the noble...
Earl of Selborne | 697 c1098 (Link to this contribution) I just add a very short contribution. Of the two amendments, Amendment No. 128 and Amendment No. 130...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1096 (Link to this contribution) Yes, as I said to my noble friend, there will be no restriction, no no-go areas for the Climate Chan...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1103 (Link to this contribution) That would be the case, but I also mentioned the continuity of the budget period. I think I said tha...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1103 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his remarks. I draw some comfort from the fact that the first members will ...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1103-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 133: 133: Schedule 1, page 33, line 4, after ““6”” insert ““consecutive”” The...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1101 (Link to this contribution) I am not saying that for one moment. It is not the job of the climate change committee to run the wo...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1101 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response and noble Lords for their contributions. I hope that when I wi...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1101-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 132: 132: Schedule 1, page 32, line 36, at end insert ““and each term of offic...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c1102 (Link to this contribution) The language used by the noble Lord is, if I may say so delicately, a little unreasonable. The Gover...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1102-3 (Link to this contribution) It might be argued that the Government have no control over the committee—certainly not with the Off...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c1103 (Link to this contribution) On that last point, the idea is that there is a continual rolling programme of appointments on to th...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 697 c1107 (Link to this contribution) I can see the political and diplomatic argument which underlies the wording which the Government hav...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c1107-8 (Link to this contribution) In the original draft Bill, the provision was for the Secretary of State to appoint the first chief ...
Lord Redesdale | 697 c1106-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 137: 137: Schedule 1, page 33, line 34, leave out from ““executive”” to end of...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 697 c1107 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I cannot support this amendment although I see my noble friends have put their name...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 697 c1106 (Link to this contribution) The Minister was good enough to clarify an opinion she gave at an earlier stage. Let me do the same ...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1106 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend Lord Brooke for that. I thank the Minister for clarifying and putting it on ...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 697 c1104 (Link to this contribution) I must apologise, through the Committee, to my noble friend Lord Cathcart if he gave the reason for ...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c1104-6 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to respond to this short debate and to give the noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, some reass...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c1104 (Link to this contribution) First, I hope that the Committee will join me in sending our good wishes to my noble friend the Duke...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1108 (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches support this amendment. As we have been saying, the committee should be genuinel...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1110-1 (Link to this contribution) It is our view that the climate change committee will intelligently make decisions on how it goes ab...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1109 (Link to this contribution) With respect, we debated that an hour ago. We are now talking about the chief executive rather than ...
Lord Redesdale | 697 c1109 (Link to this contribution) I will not take this any further, although I was under the impression that the chief executive would...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1110 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 139: 139: Schedule 1, page 34, line 38, at end insert ““, save that the Commit...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c1110 (Link to this contribution) I briefly intervene only to follow up on a statement which I think my noble friend made at Second Re...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1108 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that we need to make a meal of this because it is not a unique arrangement; it happen...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c1108 (Link to this contribution) Could the Minister expand on that a little? What will happen if the committee recommends a certain p...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1108-9 (Link to this contribution) To be honest, I do not think that it would get that far. The committee will put together a shortlist...
Lord Redesdale | 697 c1109 (Link to this contribution) I should like to give the Minister an example because he said that this committee is unique and woul...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1111 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response. I emphasise that I was not suggesting for a moment that sub-...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1111 (Link to this contribution) I cannot make specific commitments, but I am happy to have this form of wording looked at.
Lord Krebs | 697 c1112 (Link to this contribution) This amendment raises an important point. The effectiveness of the climate change committee will dep...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c1112 (Link to this contribution) I intervene briefly to ask my noble friend to reconsider some words he used in response to a previou...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1111-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 140: 140: Schedule 1, page 34, line 38, at end insert— ““The Committee must ta...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1111 (Link to this contribution) In which case, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1114 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for her response. This has been a useful debate on an important area of t...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c1114 (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for that intervention and for giving me the opportunity to stress that we...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 697 c1114 (Link to this contribution) Is the noble Baroness saying that the Government are not necessarily averse to having something in t...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c1112-4 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Krebs, is absolutely right in saying that this debate focuses on the very impor...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1114 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 140A: 140A: Schedule 1, page 36, line 39, at end insert— ““Disqualification th...
Earl of Caithness | 697 c1115 (Link to this contribution) I was intrigued by my noble friend’s amendment but surely it ought to include members of the Welsh A...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c1115 (Link to this contribution) I find this amendment rather curious. The noble Earl, Lord Cathcart, keeps drawing the long straw in...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c1115 (Link to this contribution) What about a Cross-Bencher in the House of Lords?
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c1115 (Link to this contribution) We are at an interesting point in Committee. I am afraid that I have to inform my noble friend that ...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c1115-6 (Link to this contribution) We are not going all the way down the chain. It is set out in the Bill. We are making use of the Hou...
Lord Dixon-Smith | 697 c1115 (Link to this contribution) Even though we in this House are somewhat independent of our political masters, if it is deemed inap...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c1116 (Link to this contribution) I said that they would have to declare it.
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c1116 (Link to this contribution) I think I heard my noble friend say that, while Members of the House of Lords could be members of th...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1116 (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased that the probing was to such good effect. I did have doubts when the debate starte...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1118 (Link to this contribution) First, on Amendment No. 143, it is important in the process of consultation and advice on the carbon...
Lord Puttnam | 697 c1118-9 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. My point has been perfectly well put by the noble Lord, Lord Crickhowell, b...
Lord Teverson | 697 c1116-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 143: 143: Clause 27, page 14, line 12, at end insert— ““( ) whether targets fo...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c1117-8 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, will no doubt remember that we considered that point in the Joint Com...
Lord Teverson | 697 c1121 (Link to this contribution) The Minister reflects my own views entirely in that area. I particularly welcome his last comment ab...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1120-1 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord withdraws the amendment, I would like to put another couple of points on the r...
Lord Teverson | 697 c1120 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response, which I think was fairly positive. I know that we have had t...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1119-20 (Link to this contribution) I say at the outset that I am more than happy—as I have said on previous clauses and this is no diff...
Earl of Onslow | 697 c1119 (Link to this contribution) First, I apologise to noble Lords for not being here earlier. I really wanted to be here but I was o...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1122 (Link to this contribution) I have an excellent two-page speaking note on this narrow amendment and a one-page question and answ...
Lord Woolmer of Leeds | 697 c1122-3 (Link to this contribution) That is a very interesting and informative response. In order to give its advice on the trading sect...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1123 (Link to this contribution) I say to my noble friend that the committee’s advice on the budget will be based on, for example, a ...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1121-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 146: 146: Clause 27, page 14, line 16, at beginning insert ““individually and”...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1125 (Link to this contribution) Win two, lose two: it is better than nothing. I am sorry that the Minister is unable to take away Am...
Lord Teverson | 697 c1124 (Link to this contribution) Part of this is clearly in line with the previous group of amendments which we tabled. I again make ...
Lord Crickhowell | 697 c1068 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to intervene but I want to say that my noble friend made a very good point when h...
Earl Cathcart | 697 c1123-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 152: 152: Clause 28, page 15, line 7, leave out from ““report”” to end The no...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1124-5 (Link to this contribution) This group of four amendments would substantially rewrite part of Clause 28. To get the good news ou...
Baroness Morgan of Drefelin | 697 c1125 (Link to this contribution) This may be an appropriate moment to break. I suggest that the Committee stage begin again not befor...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c1070 (Link to this contribution) Would it be possible to call the committee an advisory committee?
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy with the point of the right reverend Prelate but I think he ought to...
Lord Rooker | 697 c1072 (Link to this contribution) With respect, I have not really addressed my noble friend’s point; it went somewhat beyond the amend...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 697 c1072 (Link to this contribution) What, in principle, is wrong with the requirement that the committee agrees a report on facts, findi...
Lord Taylor of Holbeach | 697 c1123 (Link to this contribution) We are back into an area where there seems to be a dichotomy of view between the opposition Benches ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 697 c1104 (Link to this contribution) With respect, Amendment No. 134 is quite absurd. It would cover any criminal offence. I think that t...
Subjects
Climate change Carbon dioxide Developing countries Environment protection Scottish Parliament Qualifications Public appointments Pollution control Standards Carbon emissions Climate Change Committee Carbon budgets
Legislation
Climate Change Bill (HL) 2007-08
Link
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