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Debate on bill on Wednesday, 23 January 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Bill Rammell. The answering member was John Hayes.

Sale of Student Loans Bill

Sale of Student Loans Bill. Report stage. Amendment 11 negatived on division (213 to 288). Amendment 7 negatived on division (212 to 284). Third reading debate agreed to on question. Bill passed.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
470 c1536-90 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Innovation, Universities and Skills
Legislative stage
Third reading
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Rob Wilson | 470 c1549-50 (Link to this contribution) We have had a fairly brief, but good, debate. Some of the contributions, including that of the hon. ...
Show all contributions (122)
Speaker | 470 c1550 (Link to this contribution) Order. The only amendment before the House at the moment is amendment No. 5.
Angela Watkinson | 470 c1549 (Link to this contribution) Are we to understand from what the Minister is saying about the collection of defaulted loans that t...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1549 (Link to this contribution) There are clear procedures and guidelines in respect of the powers available to the Student Loans Co...
Speaker | 470 c1554-5 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 9, page 3, line 24, at end...
John McDonnell | 470 c1555 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 4 stands in my name, and I see that amendment No. 9 is virtually the same as it—it wou...
John McDonnell | 470 c1554 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 4, page 3, line 22, leave out 'may' and insert 'shall'.
Bill Rammell | 470 c1548-9 (Link to this contribution) Let me state this for the record; then if I need to follow it up with statements to other hon. Membe...
Speaker | 470 c1555 (Link to this contribution) Order. Would Members who are leaving the Chamber please do so as quickly and as quietly as they can?...
Rob Marris | 470 c1558 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Hayes | 470 c1558 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to give way to the hon. Gentleman who spoke so eloquently on Second Reading and in Co...
Rob Marris | 470 c1558 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is presenting his case with his usual aplomb, as did the Mi...
John Hayes | 470 c1558-60 (Link to this contribution) I will come to amendment No. 10 in a moment, and I will endeavour to address that point. As the hon....
Rob Marris | 470 c1560-2 (Link to this contribution) On at least three occasions in the Public Bill Committee, the Minister was clear about ““shall”” and...
Shona McIsaac | 470 c1562 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right; such restrictive covenants exist throughout the country. In the fishing are...
Rob Marris | 470 c1562 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, although I do not want to get into leaseholds, which would further complica...
Speaker | 470 c1562 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the example that the hon. Gentleman has given, but we must not stray too far down that ...
John McDonnell | 470 c1555-7 (Link to this contribution) When I get to my feet I usually speed the rush out of the Chamber, so it was surprising that those h...
John Hayes | 470 c1557-8 (Link to this contribution) The amendments are simple but necessary. They would clarify the Government's position, defend the in...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1543-4 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The obvious answer is that it would be done for foolish or speculative reasons or on the cal...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1543 (Link to this contribution) I shall move on, having made those points. We agree that there should be a statement of the costs of...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1543 (Link to this contribution) The amendments raise some important points, which I hope that the Minister will tackle. I believe th...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1543 (Link to this contribution) I find it ironic that Conservative Front Benchers have tabled the amendments, whatever political per...
Speaker | 470 c1543 (Link to this contribution) Order. Let me remind hon. Members of the rules of procedure. If hon. Members wish to make a comment,...
Speaker | 470 c1543 (Link to this contribution) Order. May we please have order in the debate?
Angela Watkinson | 470 c1545 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making some powerful points about guaranteeing the terms and conditions of stu...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1545 (Link to this contribution) I am indeed making precisely that case. That is why I am inviting the Minister to give the House an ...
John Hayes | 470 c1544-5 (Link to this contribution) Not for the first time in the 20 years in which I have known the hon. Gentleman and exchanged ideas ...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1545-6 (Link to this contribution) That is an important point. My answer is that as I read through the provisions in the Bill, it was n...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1546-7 (Link to this contribution) I am more than pleased to respond to this group of amendments, which covers transfer and collection ...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1547-8 (Link to this contribution) I urge the hon. Gentleman to look to his own house before he casts stones and implies that there are...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1545 (Link to this contribution) That is an important and serious point. I happen to have grown up on a different planet, where I wen...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1545 (Link to this contribution) I will happily give way, but I have been trying to finish for the past few minutes!
Rob Marris | 470 c1545 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps my hon. Friend has covered this point and I have missed it, but if I take out a loan from ba...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1563 (Link to this contribution) It sounds as though the hon. Gentleman is describing a Quaker clause, which is common in my constitu...
Rob Marris | 470 c1562-3 (Link to this contribution) I will be interested to hear what my hon. Friend the Minister says as to whether severing paragraphs...
John McDonnell | 470 c1562 (Link to this contribution) I assure my hon. Friend that I desperately do not want to get involved in a discussion of my lease. ...
John Hayes | 470 c1564 (Link to this contribution) There are other issues, such as debt collection, that we have debated previously, and we may do so a...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1564 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, but I am not sure whether it clarifies the purpose...
John Hayes | 470 c1564 (Link to this contribution) To clarify for the benefit of the House and the hon. Gentleman, we clearly need to ensure value for ...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1563-4 (Link to this contribution) We are having an interesting debate on the meaning of the word ““shall”” and whether it has a legal ...
Rob Marris | 470 c1563 (Link to this contribution) As always with this lucid Minister, it will become clear what can and cannot be done and what the co...
John Hayes | 470 c1563 (Link to this contribution) As ever, the hon. Gentleman is making an interesting case. The point made by the hon. Member for Hay...
Rob Marris | 470 c1563 (Link to this contribution) I might be; that is one of the things I am attempting to probe with the Minister. Ultimately, of cou...
Rob Wilson | 470 c1536-7 (Link to this contribution) There are still some unresolved issues raised by hon. Members on Second Reading and in Committee tha...
Angela Watkinson | 470 c1537 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will understand that when students who already have loans hear about the sale of the ...
Rob Wilson | 470 c1537-40 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point. I hope that in the course of the debate we will get the reassura...
Rob Wilson | 470 c1540 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, it was excellent. However, based on what the Minister said in the evidence session, such a ...
Speaker | 470 c1536 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 6, page 2, line 11, at end ...
Rob Wilson | 470 c1536 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 5, page 2, line 6, at end insert—
Stephen Williams | 470 c1542 (Link to this contribution) We were both members of the Social Democratic party once.
Rob Wilson | 470 c1541 (Link to this contribution) I will come to that because I have re-read the exchanges involving the Minister and Mr. Hipkins in C...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1540-1 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman be very careful in quoting from Hansard and then inserting his own view? The...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1542 (Link to this contribution) We have been in the same party at one point.
Stephen Williams | 470 c1541-2 (Link to this contribution) Several changes have occurred in my party in the past few weeks for reasons that are obvious to ever...
Rob Wilson | 470 c1588 (Link to this contribution) There is some confusion about that in Hansard. At column 31, the Minister says of the picking of loa...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1588-9 (Link to this contribution) That is not the case. If the hon. Gentleman reads the record carefully, he will see that the matter ...
Adam Holloway | 470 c1586-7 (Link to this contribution) I would like to say a little about the effects of the Bill on young people in low-income families be...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1587-8 (Link to this contribution) I should like briefly to sum up the debate and to refer first to the previous speech, by the hon. Me...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1583-4 (Link to this contribution) It has been my duty on behalf of my party to carry the baton round the final lap of the debates on t...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1584-6 (Link to this contribution) I begin by reassuring my hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) that there...
John Hayes | 470 c1582 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman was not entirely satisfied with the Minister's assurance about what he might do i...
John McDonnell | 470 c1582-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman need have no fear that I shall not pursue the matter in my comradely dialogue wit...
John Hayes | 470 c1578-81 (Link to this contribution) The Minister described this as a technical Bill and it is certainly complicated. That is not to say,...
John McDonnell | 470 c1581-2 (Link to this contribution) In response to the Minister's assertion that there is consensus about the Bill and the student loans...
John McDonnell | 470 c1589 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, South (Alan Simpson) and I have received representations f...
John Hayes | 470 c1590 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has not mentioned a point that was raised by a number of hon. Members. On the issue of ...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1590 (Link to this contribution) I can give the hon. Gentleman a fundamental reassurance on ownership. The contracts will be based on...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1589 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will forgive me if I do not commit myself to that at this stage. I meet the National ...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1589-90 (Link to this contribution) The Minister would not expect me to let him get away with that. Think-tanks can cause problems for a...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1590 (Link to this contribution) I was aware that the Liberal Democrats were undertaking a review. One of the most enjoyable experien...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1565 (Link to this contribution) It is difficult for someone who is not a lawyer or an accountant to speak in this part of the debate...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1564-5 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. The purpose of my remarks was to get clarification...
Rob Marris | 470 c1564 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will correct me if I am wrong, but I understood him to say that he was not overly...
Stephen Williams | 470 c1564 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for that clarification. I am drawing my remarks to a close, and I have to...
John McDonnell | 470 c1567 (Link to this contribution) We can talk about bursaries elsewhere, but the information that we have today is that 20 per cent. o...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1566-7 (Link to this contribution) The debate is important. First, let me deal with the comments of the hon. Members for Bristol, West ...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1565-6 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend but I am not sure whether the technical argument is that the amendment w...
John McDonnell | 470 c1565 (Link to this contribution) I should like to define my position because I do not want my hon. Friend to misunderstand. I wish to...
Alan Simpson | 470 c1565 (Link to this contribution) I mean the Minister. During earlier exchanges, I thought that I was clear about the matter when the...
Rob Marris | 470 c1565 (Link to this contribution) He is not Secretary of State yet.
Bill Rammell | 470 c1567-8 (Link to this contribution) We are in danger of being diverted. The difference between when my hon. Friend went to university an...
John McDonnell | 470 c1567 (Link to this contribution) Of course. I opposed the abolition of grants in the first place, and the amount of grant currently b...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1568 (Link to this contribution) I will address that issue, but we are seeking through one of a number of options a mechanism to secu...
John McDonnell | 470 c1568 (Link to this contribution) The reality is that the resources would still be received, but they would be beyond the Treasury boo...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1567 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree that all institutions need to communicate and market their bursary systems effecti...
John Hayes | 470 c1569 (Link to this contribution) Things are becoming clearer by the moment. In answer to the intervention by the hon. Member for Haye...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1568 (Link to this contribution) It is an option that we may want to exercise in future if the ONS rules change. We could then use th...
John McDonnell | 470 c1568 (Link to this contribution) I just asked a simple question: what would trigger the exercise of the power to demand the Secretary...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1569 (Link to this contribution) I note my hon. Friend's comments from a sedentary position. Let me be clear on the issue. The decis...
John Hayes | 470 c1569-70 (Link to this contribution) In that case, we only need to add ““either””, ““or”” and a suffix that says something like ““or an e...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1569 (Link to this contribution) Happiness does not come that easily in these matters. I want to retain flexibility for future circum...
John McDonnell | 470 c1570 (Link to this contribution) So the provision would not contain the element of control that I am seeking in relation to clause 3(...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1570 (Link to this contribution) Depending on the circumstances, all the options secure the Secretary of State's—and therefore the re...
John McDonnell | 470 c1570 (Link to this contribution) May I be clear, then, that if ““shall”” were used in regard to clause 3(6)(b) and (c), it would not ...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1570 (Link to this contribution) The only problem with that proposition is that that is not what is on the Order Paper. It is not wha...
John McDonnell | 470 c1571 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister's assurances, but I have to say that what he has suggested falls betw...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1571 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful. To conclude, I am confident that the Bill as drafted provides the Government with ap...
John Hayes | 470 c1570 (Link to this contribution) It seems to me that the Minister is moving towards a position that has been articulated across the H...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1570 (Link to this contribution) I think it does. Each of the options is an option to secure the Secretary of State's interest over t...
John Hayes | 470 c1571 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that the hon. Gentleman is right about that. Far be it from me to speak for the Minist...
Rob Marris | 470 c1571 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 1, in page 3, line 42, after 'reimbursement', insert 'by a defaulting bo...
John McDonnell | 470 c1571 (Link to this contribution) Let me be very clear. The Minister has said that his advice from the Office for National Statistics ...
Rob Marris | 470 c1571-2 (Link to this contribution) I would like a quick walk round the block on these amendments, if I may put it that way. The amendme...
Speaker | 470 c1571 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 2, page 3, line 42, after s...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1572 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Rob Marris) is aware, I had an opportuni...
John Hayes | 470 c1572 (Link to this contribution) As he said, the hon. Gentleman raised these matters earlier. His amendments make clear that"““reimbu...
Speaker | 470 c1573 (Link to this contribution) Order. I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.
Rob Marris | 470 c1572-3 (Link to this contribution) Such are the little victories of Back Benchers! I do not get to amend a Bill, but my hon. Friend the...
Bill Rammell | 470 c1577-8 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. We have had a thoughtful debate today, as ...
John Hayes | 470 c1547 (Link to this contribution) As Members on both sides of the House have said, there is no doubt about the Minister's integrity. W...
John McDonnell | 470 c1548 (Link to this contribution) This point might relate to value for money, but I want to take the Minister back to his helpful resp...
Rob Wilson | 470 c1550 (Link to this contribution) I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Amendment proposed: ...
Subjects
Cost effectiveness Debts Debt collection Graduates Private sector Personal income Privatisation Parliamentary scrutiny Loans Sales Repayments Students Student Loans Company Cost of living
Legislation
Sale of Student Loans Bill 2007-08
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk