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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 13 March 2008, in the House of Lords.

Employment Bill [HL]

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
699 c257-318GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c277GC (Link to this contribution) We do not support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Tu...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c264-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24AA: 24AA: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— ““Voluntary work...
Show all contributions (113)
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c262-3GC (Link to this contribution) One often reads in newspapers about my purported or suggested, and highly erroneous, views on the na...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c262GC (Link to this contribution) Has the noble Lord omitted to notice that the Long Title says, "““to make provision about the enforc...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c260GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for that most helpful steer. If she had had the pleasure of being in the ...
Lord Henley | 699 c296GC (Link to this contribution) I offer a brief word of support for my noble friend in moving the amendment on behalf of our mutual ...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c293-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26: 26: After Clause 15, insert the following new Clause— ““Duty to protect we...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c283-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for what he has said. I would welcome the chance to discuss this. There are som...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c281GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that workers who come from a foreign country and do not work in the UK have no con...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c279GC (Link to this contribution) I thought that I was allowed to address the Grand Committee for another moment. I retain my view tha...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c257GC (Link to this contribution) I would like to continue with my probing of this part of the Bill. Clause 11 markedly increases the ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c267GC (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the noble Baroness raised this. When I was trying to get my mind around it the other ...
Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 699 c269GC (Link to this contribution) To some extent, the Minister has tried to clarify the position on accommodation but I am less clear ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c268GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may allay the fears of my noble friends Lord Wedderburn and Lord Borrie by making the foll...
Lord Watson of Invergowrie | 699 c269GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister answer the other point that I raised about who would decide the test of reasonablen...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c261GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend. On this occasion, I do not have to hear what the Minister says. If one lo...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c264GC (Link to this contribution) The national minimum wage is a matter for considerable debate in this Bill in many respects, althoug...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c258-9GC (Link to this contribution) Welcome back. I hope that the changes that we are introducing in the Bill show how seriously we cons...
Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton | 699 c260GC (Link to this contribution) For the record and for the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, I should say that the Minister is replying o...
Lord Haskel | 699 c306GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could tell the noble Lord that if—
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c300-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26A: 26A: Before Clause 17, insert the following new Clause— ““Expulsion of me...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for his intervention. I am somewhat relieved because I thought it would be mo...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c293GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that very detailed reply, which my noble friend Lord James will read with g...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c299-300GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, for his comments. I am not sure exactly what my noble frien...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c290-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner, for so eloquently reading out the remarks of the ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c284GC (Link to this contribution) I assure the noble Lord and my noble friend that I will get back to them both with details of exactl...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c283GC (Link to this contribution) As I understood the noble Lord, he mentioned Section 2(9) and later he said Section 9, but some part...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c280GC (Link to this contribution) Should not the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, consider what happened many years ago and whether ships ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c280GC (Link to this contribution) The answer to the question could be found in 10 minutes. I am trapped here, but if someone would loo...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c279GC (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to intrude on this issue. I only do so because the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, r...
Lord Hoyle | 699 c278GC (Link to this contribution) What does the noble Lord think £1.50 per hour is if it is not slave labour?
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c311-2GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may answer the question, especially as it comes from a noble Lord who tried to teach me th...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c311GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask the noble Lord, Lord Lester, one question, although I am afraid it involves a lega...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c309GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to deal with this, and am therefore particularly grateful for the opportunity to do ...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c308-9GC (Link to this contribution) Let me just finish. In fairness, I have to try to explain this first, and then I can be shot down. I...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c308GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I could just finish explaining. I will then certainly sit down. If one does not have my amen...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c307-8GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the noble Lord understands what I am trying to say. It is my fault, I am sure. W...
Lord Geddes | 699 c257GC (Link to this contribution) I will not waste the Grand Committee’s time with regard to adjournments in the event of Divisions be...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c316-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords for their helpful contributions to the debate. Of course, I am grea...
Lord Bach | 699 c318GC (Link to this contribution) This may be convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn.
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c314-5GC (Link to this contribution) I welcome the involvement of the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill, in the debate. He is not onl...
Lord Razzall | 699 c276GC (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the amendment raises an important issue and the Government need to consider the representat...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c273-6GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lady Turner suggests that I add my voice to hers. We are talking about thousands of ...
Lord Hoyle | 699 c278GC (Link to this contribution) It seems as though the noble Baroness was reading directly from what the Chamber of Shipping has bee...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c277-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I like the word ““slave””. I come from Plymouth—a seafaring city—so perhaps I kno...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c277GC (Link to this contribution) I was waiting for the noble Baroness to finish that part of her speech. Perhaps I may intervene. Doe...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c278GC (Link to this contribution) Rhetoric will not resolve this serious problem. Talking about slave labour is not a useful way to ap...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c264GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister, particularly for his reassurance that the Government have no plans to expand t...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c268GC (Link to this contribution) I endorse everything that my noble friend Lord Borrie said and we congratulate the Government on thi...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c269GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may write to noble Lords on why there is a distinction between reimbursement of rental exp...
Lord Borrie | 699 c262GC (Link to this contribution) A substantial chunk of the Bill is headed ““National minimum wage””. As my noble friend Lord Wedderb...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c261GC (Link to this contribution) Like my probing stand part debate on Clause 10, this debate is to explore whether it is necessary to...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c260-1GC (Link to this contribution) If anybody is to shout ““Shame”” for that, it would be me, but I move on. I was going to say that my...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c259GC (Link to this contribution) The thrust of my argument is that we have to get the—I hope, rarely pursued—criminality provisions i...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c257-8GC (Link to this contribution) I wish to resist the noble Baroness’s opposition to the Question, particularly because research sugg...
Lord Henley | 699 c303-4GC (Link to this contribution) I think the Minister will find that this is a warm-up to further debates we will have today, on anot...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c304-5GC (Link to this contribution) I suspect that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, has tabled this amendment in order to stimu...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c305-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am obliged to all noble Lords who have spoken, including the noble Lord, Lord Lester of Herne Hill...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c301-2GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for missing 10 minutes of the debate when I had to leave the Room. However, the noble Lo...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c296-7GC (Link to this contribution) I add my congratulations to the noble Baroness not only on her amendment but on the examples that sh...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c297-9GC (Link to this contribution) Without doubt, the Government support the intention behind the amendment. It is essential that there...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c290GC (Link to this contribution) I listened with interest to my noble friend Lady Gardner as she spoke to the amendment. I do not thi...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c284GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister has just put a question and has conceded that in government thinking there is no distin...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c284-5GC (Link to this contribution) I can, I hope, deal with that very quickly and say something that will satisfy my noble friends. The...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c283GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry but my attention was diverted, so for clarification would the noble Lord repeat to which ...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 699 c312GC (Link to this contribution) I was surprised to hear that the noble Lord, Lord Lester, has been in touch with the TUC, because, a...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c310GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, will be patient for a moment, I am trying to explain a complicat...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c310GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, will have plenty of opportunity to reply to this in a moment. Can I...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c309GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord. He proceeded on to another point. First, I want to say to him ...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c307GC (Link to this contribution) We have not heard about this with the rule books before. If it is to be a serious contribution, will...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c312GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may clarify one thing for the noble Baroness. When I said that I had seen the TUC and the ...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 699 c312GC (Link to this contribution) An individual member may now appeal to the certification officer, as many of them do, if they feel t...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c313GC (Link to this contribution) I did not expect to be supported by the present attitude of the TUC, but I want to make it perfectly...
Lord Hoyle | 699 c313GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway. We often agree on issues. He has told me that...
Lord Henley | 699 c313-4GC (Link to this contribution) I intervene to say how grateful the Committee is for the brevity with which the noble Lord, Lord Les...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c315-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thought the noble Baroness might enjoy that one. The amendment would undoubtedly complicate the l...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c316GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise, but I want to intervene for a constructive purpose. In view of what was said by the nob...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c316GC (Link to this contribution) I assure the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Alloway, that I will make those inquiries. I will ask for ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c269GC (Link to this contribution) I am so sorry; I forgot. The test of reasonableness will ultimately be decided by a judge in a tribu...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 699 c270-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24B: 24B: After Clause 13, insert the following new Clause— ““Application of t...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c269-70GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to respond to these government amendments, which we welcome. They are good news for b...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c267GC (Link to this contribution) Is Amendment No. 24AA basically about a tax issue? We all remember the Mallalieu case of the black c...
Lord Borrie | 699 c267-8GC (Link to this contribution) The Government deserve to be congratulated on thinking this one out so that, without triggering the ...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c262GC (Link to this contribution) I should be very careful not to trespass into too many arguments with other sides of the Committee. ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c263-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Henley, for using his crystal ball. If he had sat down fo...
Lord Henley | 699 c263GC (Link to this contribution) This is very important. As the Minister knows, the Revenue already has pretty extensive powers. I re...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c259GC (Link to this contribution) I did not wish to speak until I had heard what the Minister was going to say. How grateful we are th...
Baroness Wilcox | 699 c260GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply. The noble Lord, Lord Wedderburn, threw me slightly, because I di...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c260GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot answer the noble Baroness’s question to me. My stress was not so much on the penalties for ...
Lord Hoyle | 699 c303GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to speak but, having listened to the noble Lord with rapt attention because of his k...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c303GC (Link to this contribution) I will deal with this when I oppose Amendment No. 27. I shall not weary your Lordships by replying t...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c302-3GC (Link to this contribution) I shall make a tiny speech on this amendment explaining why I oppose it, but I shall have to make a ...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 699 c286-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 25: 25: After Clause 15, insert the following new Clause— ““Additional restric...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 699 c285-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for his response. In some ways I found it very helpful; in other ways I was ...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c283GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister answer one question? My simple mind is slightly bemused because he said that Europ...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c281-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Wedderburn for asking me a question I was just about to come t...
Lord Jones of Birmingham | 699 c280-1GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened to the past few moments with great interest from many different angles. First, I tha...
Lord Wedderburn of Charlton | 699 c279-80GC (Link to this contribution) I have also been searching through the 3,000 pages of the guide to employment law for that point, an...
Lord Brett | 699 c278-9GC (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as a recent employee of the International Labour Organisation. I refer all Mem...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c278GC (Link to this contribution) I repeat: to speak of slave labour is not a reasonable way in which to approach this problem. If the...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c310GC (Link to this contribution) Is it important that there be safeguards against abuse. A trade union is not the Garrick Club or any...
Lord Lester of Herne Hill | 699 c306-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 27: 27: Clause 17, page 16, leave out lines 9 to 14 and insert— ““(a) at the e...
Lord Campbell of Alloway | 699 c306GC (Link to this contribution) No, I am not withdrawing it. Oh! Yes, I have to. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, ...
Subjects
Conditions of employment Criminal investigation Employment Fees and charges Enforcement Fines Employment agencies Powers Membership Minimum wage Political parties Temporary employment Trade unions Shipping Unemployed people Voluntary work Revenue and Customs
Legislation
Employment Bill (HL) 2007-08
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk