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Debate on bill on Wednesday, 19 November 2008, in the House of Commons.

Counter-Terrorism Bill

Counter-Terrorism Bill. Programme motion (No 3) on consideration of Lords amendments and subsequent stages. Agreed to on question. Lords amendments considered. Lords amendments agreed to. Lords amendments Nos 2, 3, 106, 133 disagreed to. Committee appointed to draw up reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing to their amendments. Reasons reported and agreed to, and communicated to the Lords.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
483 c240-333 
Session
2007-08
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Lords amendments
Procedure
Programme motions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 483 c241 (Link to this contribution) I have to inform the House that privilege is involved in Lords amendments Nos. 2, 82, 113 and 127. I...
Lord Coaker | 483 c272 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, what is said is not meant to be a disrespectful statement. We are trying to balance the n...
Show all contributions (258)
Mark Fisher | 483 c272 (Link to this contribution) Pursuant to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, North and Fleetwood (Mrs. Hum...
Lord Coaker | 483 c272 (Link to this contribution) There is always concern and worry about such matters, and my hon. Friend is right to draw attention ...
Jeremy Corbyn | 483 c272 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way again; he is very generous. Is he aware that many people are con...
Lord Coaker | 483 c273 (Link to this contribution) We want as full a disclosure as possible, but I cannot guarantee that it would be possible to disclo...
Pete Wishart | 483 c273 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is being generous in giving way. Can he clarify something for me, because we are gettin...
Lord Coaker | 483 c273-4 (Link to this contribution) That will be a matter for future debate. The Government intend to take forward much of the legislati...
David Heath | 483 c273 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is intent on telling the House about future legislation, so I have one simple question ...
Patrick Mercer | 483 c272 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly confused about the endless series of permutations about intercept as evidence. Will th...
Lord Coaker | 483 c272 (Link to this contribution) I certainly can. The hon. Gentleman will know about the Chilcot review. That review established a nu...
Jeremy Corbyn | 483 c276 (Link to this contribution) I do not understand the point that the Minister is trying to make. Will not the practice that he pro...
Lord Coaker | 483 c276 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, lessons need to be learned from that case, and we await the full report.
Mark Fisher | 483 c275 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Minister wants to reassure the House. We are only a few months after the Jean Cha...
Lord Coaker | 483 c275 (Link to this contribution) We look forward to receiving the report from the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues. Certainly,...
Lord Coaker | 483 c276 (Link to this contribution) I understand my hon. Friend's point and the strength of feeling about the issue. He knows better tha...
Mark Durkan | 483 c276 (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that it was important to strike a balance between families and the public interest...
Lord Coaker | 483 c276 (Link to this contribution) We do not believe that it is a delaying tactic. It is a proper route to trying to find out exactly w...
Lord Coaker | 483 c274-5 (Link to this contribution) It may well still have to be kept in camera. It depends on the circumstances of the case, those surr...
Lord Beith | 483 c275 (Link to this contribution) As someone who is taking part in that review, may I remind the Minister that disclosure is not the o...
Mike Weir | 483 c274 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully to the Minister. He will appreciate that our concern is rather limited beca...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c271 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to press the Minister, but I am not sure to what point he is now speaking. Is it the prop...
Lord Coaker | 483 c271 (Link to this contribution) We are trying to ensure that we protect intercept material and other secret material. It is perfectl...
Jeremy Corbyn | 483 c271 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that, and I understand that we are going to debate the matter in the next S...
Jeremy Corbyn | 483 c271 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell me, one way or the other, whether it would be possible under the legislation t...
Joan Humble | 483 c270-1 (Link to this contribution) What reassurances can my hon. Friend give to those next of kin in relation to this part of the Bill ...
Lord Coaker | 483 c270 (Link to this contribution) I certainly will. The coroner, who would continue to be a fully independent judicial office holder,...
Lord Coaker | 483 c271 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to reassure hon. Members about where we are going with coroners legislation, and about t...
Lord Garnier | 483 c270 (Link to this contribution) They should already have been worked through. That is the whole point about the drafting of the Bill...
David Heath | 483 c285 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman is right in the context of a jury and a coroner's court. I may ...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c285-6 (Link to this contribution) We are as of one in this sense: we see merit in the approach, but we recognise that the new clause i...
Lord Garnier | 483 c286-8 (Link to this contribution) The interchange between my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c288 (Link to this contribution) I think that it was more than that. I think it was seven.
Chris Huhne | 483 c281-2 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman is far more versed in these matters than I am. However, I agree...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c281 (Link to this contribution) What happens if a High Court judge concludes that disclosure is essential to enabling the matters th...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c283-5 (Link to this contribution) Before I deal with the tightly drafted new clause tabled in the other place, I want to build on what...
Jeremy Corbyn | 483 c282-3 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief. I spoke on this subject during our earlier debates on the Bill. Although all the p...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c285 (Link to this contribution) I always enjoy debating with the hon. Gentleman, and I very often agree with him, but he has a probl...
David Heath | 483 c285 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman is simultaneously right and wrong. He is right that the new cla...
Lord Garnier | 483 c291 (Link to this contribution) We do not have to use a hypothetical example, as we know from friendly fire incidents in Iraq that t...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c291 (Link to this contribution) May I reinforce the hon. Gentleman's point? If a British subject died in Guantanamo Bay as a result ...
David Heath | 483 c291 (Link to this contribution) Of course they would, and we know that perfectly well. That is why it was so objectionable that the ...
Lord Garnier | 483 c288-9 (Link to this contribution) I am making a suggestion; I have no power over those who work behind the Chair. However, I dare say ...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c288 (Link to this contribution) He seems to be looking to his left.
Lord Garnier | 483 c288 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend says that it might be seven years. The Minister will have that info...
David Heath | 483 c290-1 (Link to this contribution) I am referring to the right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg)—I thin...
David Heath | 483 c290 (Link to this contribution) I take a slightly more generous view than the hon. and learned Member for Harborough (Mr. Garnier) a...
Mark Fisher | 483 c289-90 (Link to this contribution) The debate has been unusually thoughtful. Every Member who has spoken has expressed not uncritical s...
Damian Green | 483 c277 (Link to this contribution) The Minister's introductory speech has given us the opportunity for an extremely wide-ranging debate...
Lord Coaker | 483 c278 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to interrupt the hon. Gentleman before he is in full flow, but let me say that my rema...
Chris Huhne | 483 c277 (Link to this contribution) I would like the Minister's clarification on one point. My understanding is that the amendment would...
Lord Coaker | 483 c277 (Link to this contribution) In many cases in which a High Court judge is sitting, he will not be the finder of fact; the jury wi...
Lord Coaker | 483 c277 (Link to this contribution) My point is that in those circumstances there would be material that may have to be shared with the ...
Lord Coaker | 483 c276-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that any of us find particularly easy the circumstances to which my hon. Friend the M...
Mark Fisher | 483 c276 (Link to this contribution) The Minister suggests that we are considering either/or and that there are no fine lines. However, s...
Lord Coaker | 483 c277 (Link to this contribution) That is why we proceed with caution. That is also why we have agreed with the Lords, with respect to...
Richard Shepherd | 483 c277 (Link to this contribution) I accept absolutely the distress of the relatives of someone who has been killed or who has died in ...
Chris Huhne | 483 c281 (Link to this contribution) In response to the hon. Gentleman, I am not confident that this is the last word on the subject. I a...
Chris Huhne | 483 c280 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that, following discussions here and in the other place, the Government have seen fit...
Jeremy Corbyn | 483 c280 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with the first part of the hon. Gentleman's contribution, but is he satisfied tha...
Damian Green | 483 c278-80 (Link to this contribution) No, but the national interest clearly forms part of the background of any decision taken in an area ...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c278 (Link to this contribution) But the problem with the test provided for in the Bill is that the national interest is not addresse...
Damian Green | 483 c278 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend makes a reasonable point. In this case I rather agree with the poin...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c278 (Link to this contribution) Would the provisions not be further improved if proposed new subsection (8B) in Lords amendment No. ...
Damian Green | 483 c278 (Link to this contribution) We are all grateful to the Minister for doing that, because it has teased out some wider issues that...
Lord Coaker | 483 c299 (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that that amendment was tabled to generate debate, not in the belief that it wou...
Richard Shepherd | 483 c299 (Link to this contribution) This matter is an important consideration for us all. Will the Minister assure the House that the pr...
Speaker | 483 c300 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before the Minister responds, I am anxious not to stifle debate, and I can see how closely th...
Lord Coaker | 483 c300 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. The whole point of the new Bill is that it is available should there ...
Lord Coaker | 483 c299 (Link to this contribution) All I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that the proposed Bill is available for him to scrutinise. He...
Lord Coaker | 483 c300 (Link to this contribution) To try to be fair to my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester, East (Keith Vaz), the Chair of t...
Chris Huhne | 483 c300 (Link to this contribution) The Minister clearly knows that Sir Ken Macdonald, the out-going Director of Public Prosecutions, ha...
Keith Vaz | 483 c300 (Link to this contribution) The point made by the hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr. Shepherd) was made by my hon. Friend ...
Speaker | 483 c300 (Link to this contribution) Order. I trust that the Minister heard my earlier remarks and will bear them in mind.
Mark Fisher | 483 c293 (Link to this contribution) Is this not an ideal example of the importance of not rushing straight into a Bill but engaging in w...
Lord Coaker | 483 c293 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend's comments have been heard. Sometimes, it is a matter not of how long ...
Jeremy Corbyn | 483 c293 (Link to this contribution) Will the legislation that is to be introduced in the next Session appear in the form of a Bill, or w...
Lord Coaker | 483 c293 (Link to this contribution) To clarify matters for my hon. Friend, let me say that the legislation will be in the form of a Mini...
David Heath | 483 c291-2 (Link to this contribution) Precisely so, and we now know perfectly well that a fraud investigation can be stopped at the reques...
Lord Coaker | 483 c293 (Link to this contribution) With the leave of the House, I shall briefly respond. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-o...
Lord Coaker | 483 c298 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that this House disagrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Speaker | 483 c298 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Lords amendment No. 15 and the Government motion to disag...
Lord Coaker | 483 c299 (Link to this contribution) The Bill has been published and is in the Library.
Lord Coaker | 483 c299 (Link to this contribution) I will pass the right hon. and learned Gentleman my own copy when we have finished this debate. The ...
Lord Coaker | 483 c298 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that several hon. Members will wish to speak on this group of amendments, and I do not wan...
Lembit Opik | 483 c298 (Link to this contribution) Two of my constituents have been detained, allegedly on terrorist matters. I believe them to be inno...
Lord Coaker | 483 c298 (Link to this contribution) The changes that we have made have been generally welcomed. Our acceptance of the amendments made in...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c299 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has referred to a new Bill, which I gather is being drafted in anticipation of some for...
David Winnick | 483 c299 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for allowing me to intervene. I have had exchanges with other Minist...
Lord Coaker | 483 c301 (Link to this contribution) When things have calmed down and the Bill that we are considering has passed through all its stages,...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c301 (Link to this contribution) The Minister invites us to disagree to amendment No. 3 because it is unnecessary. I have examined th...
Lord Coaker | 483 c301-2 (Link to this contribution) There is no provision in the Bill for extending the maximum period of pre-charge detention beyond 28...
Damian Green | 483 c302 (Link to this contribution) The Minister has ended up facing both ways, in that he assured my right hon. and learned Friend the ...
Lord Coaker | 483 c300 (Link to this contribution) I feel as if I cannot win. The right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hog...
Lord Deben | 483 c301 (Link to this contribution) As someone who has always opposed an extension beyond 28 days and was pretty unhappy about 28 days, ...
Lord Deben | 483 c302 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend admitted that he was confused about why we are in this position. Is he also confused ...
Damian Green | 483 c302-3 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes an extremely good point, and one that I was about to come to. The key poi...
David Winnick | 483 c306-7 (Link to this contribution) If 42 days is unfortunate and not necessary, what would have been the reaction of the minority commu...
Pete Wishart | 483 c305 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is advancing a powerful argument. Given the Government's determination to see thi...
David Winnick | 483 c304-5 (Link to this contribution) I hope that there will not be a vote on Lords amendment No. 3, but if there is, I will not vote with...
Chris Huhne | 483 c305-6 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrats are very pleased that the Government have decided not at this time to press fo...
David Winnick | 483 c305 (Link to this contribution) Obviously the hon. Gentleman and I do not disagree on the issue of pre-charge detention, but my hon....
Speaker | 483 c304 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am in some difficulty, as the hon. Gentleman's suggestions would be more appropriate for an...
Damian Green | 483 c304 (Link to this contribution) The Government's motion to disagree with their Lordships needs to be seen from the perspective of th...
Speaker | 483 c304 (Link to this contribution) Order. I do not want to keep intervening, but that matter would also be more appropriate for another...
Keith Vaz | 483 c310 (Link to this contribution) We do not have to wait for that occasion. Of course, we are not discussing the draft Bill today, but...
Chris Huhne | 483 c309-10 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman must recognise that the draft Bill is just a fig leaf to cover the Governme...
Keith Vaz | 483 c308-9 (Link to this contribution) I cannot decide on my own what the work load of the Committee is to be. There are two other members ...
Damian Green | 483 c308 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman raises the timing of the Select Committee's scrutiny of the draft Bill, but...
Keith Vaz | 483 c307-8 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Minister will be pleased to know that I rise to speak in support of the Governmen...
Chris Huhne | 483 c307 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is usually an exceptionally acute Member of the House, so it has surely not...
Chris Huhne | 483 c307 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree that 90 days would have been even worse. I must say that I have never understood ex...
Keith Vaz | 483 c307 (Link to this contribution) I accept what the hon. Gentleman says, but is he not grateful that the Home Secretary has published ...
Lord Garnier | 483 c311 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful. It is reassuring that some part of the House of Commons will have the oppor...
Keith Vaz | 483 c311 (Link to this contribution) I can tell the hon. and learned Gentleman that I will put the point that he makes to the Committee a...
Lord Garnier | 483 c312 (Link to this contribution) And so they should be, but I have no doubt that the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues on the C...
Keith Vaz | 483 c312 (Link to this contribution) I have learned one thing since taking over as Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee—never predict w...
Damian Green | 483 c312 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend has mentioned the debate about 28 as opposed to 42 days, but it is worth ...
Lord Coaker | 483 c313 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I thank Members for their contributions to the debate and disc...
David Winnick | 483 c310 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I have not been misunderstood, because it is not a matter of an emergency. I said I woul...
Keith Vaz | 483 c310 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. My comments about him are well deserved. He put that point to the Home ...
Lord Garnier | 483 c310-1 (Link to this contribution) Although I frequently agree with the right hon. Member for Leicester, East (Keith Vaz), who is also ...
Ian Pearson | 483 c314 (Link to this contribution) We change gear, in terms of the subject matter. The amendments were introduced in the other place to...
Speaker | 483 c314 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Lords amendments Nos. 113 and 127.
Ian Pearson | 483 c314 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Damian Green | 483 c314 (Link to this contribution) Given what the Economic Secretary has just said, is it possible that, after February, the Government...
Speaker | 483 c314 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think the Minister wishes to disagree with Lords amendment No. 3.
Lord Coaker | 483 c314 (Link to this contribution) I think you know what I meant, Mr. Deputy Speaker. You are right and I am wrong.
Keith Vaz | 483 c313 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt my hon. Friend at the start of his remarks. If the Select Committee undertoo...
Lord Coaker | 483 c313-4 (Link to this contribution) Obviously I look forward to attending the Committee, if either the Home Secretary or I are invited. ...
Lord Coaker | 483 c323 (Link to this contribution) I believe, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that we have agreement to move these amendments formally as the gover...
Lord Coaker | 483 c324 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Ian Pearson | 483 c322-3 (Link to this contribution) Let me respond briefly to the concerns that the hon. Members for Ashford (Damian Green) and for East...
Chris Huhne | 483 c321-2 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to be brief because many of my concerns closely mirror those of the hon. Member for Ashf...
Ian Pearson | 483 c323 (Link to this contribution) There are provisions in the amendments for an annual report in any event. The hon. Gentleman also as...
Chris Huhne | 483 c323 (Link to this contribution) I detect that the Minister is about to wind up, but he did not reply to my specific point. I asked h...
Damian Green | 483 c317-21 (Link to this contribution) First, I should apologise to the House, because, while the Government provide variety on their Front...
Speaker | 483 c331 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Lords amendments Nos. 37 to 81 and 117 to 126.
Lord Coaker | 483 c331 (Link to this contribution) The group covers amendments to the notification, notification order and foreign travel restriction o...
Damian Green | 483 c327 (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to say that the Minister set up an Aunt Sally in his opposition to the amendment. I w...
Lord Coaker | 483 c331 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Lord Coaker | 483 c325-7 (Link to this contribution) First, let me thank the hon. Members for Ashford (Damian Green) and for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne) for ...
Chris Huhne | 483 c325 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, as we are pleased that progress has been made on this matter, and that the Governm...
Damian Green | 483 c324-5 (Link to this contribution) The amendment deals with post-charge questioning, which has been one of the themes of many arguments...
Speaker | 483 c324 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment (b) to the Lords amendment, Lords amendment No....
Damian Green | 483 c324 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment (a) to the Lords amendment.
Speaker | 483 c324 (Link to this contribution) Order. At this stage, the Minister can move his agreement only with Lords amendment No. 1. We then d...
Damian Green | 483 c332 (Link to this contribution) We on the Opposition Benches also agree with these amendments. I take this opportunity to remind the...
Chris Huhne | 483 c332-3 (Link to this contribution) We on the Liberal Democrat Benches also support these amendments, and I, too, should like to reitera...
Speaker | 483 c331 (Link to this contribution) Order. Will Members who are not staying for the debate please refrain from private conversation or l...
Damian Green | 483 c331 (Link to this contribution) I rise to say simply that I started this afternoon's proceedings by saying that the Bill had returne...
Lord Coaker | 483 c331 (Link to this contribution) Lords amendment No. 46 has the effect of ensuring that the notification requirements will not apply ...
Ian Pearson | 483 c332 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That this House agrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Chris Huhne | 483 c331-2 (Link to this contribution) I should like to add on behalf of the Liberal Democrats that we are very pleased that the Government...
Ian Pearson | 483 c332 (Link to this contribution) The amendments to part 5 fall into two categories. One creates a clear, statutory basis for challeng...
Speaker | 483 c332 (Link to this contribution) With this, it will be convenient to discuss Lords amendments Nos. 84 to 102, and 130.
Speaker | 483 c241 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment (b) to the Lords amendment and the Government m...
Damian Green | 483 c241 (Link to this contribution) The Bill has returned to us from the Lords markedly improved. Public attention has focused on the hi...
Keith Vaz | 483 c241 (Link to this contribution) It is not just a question of getting information removed; lack of information is also a problem. The...
Damian Green | 483 c241 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment (a) to the Lords amendment.
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c242 (Link to this contribution) Why do we not include it in this debate?
Damian Green | 483 c242 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend is correct that he is in a minority in holding that position, and I...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c242 (Link to this contribution) DNA is not only a detective tool; it is a huge deterrent in itself. Because it is such an effective ...
Damian Green | 483 c242 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is completely right. I agree with him on this matter, and I am, of course, ...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c243 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to be sniping from the back, but as I understand it, the amendment would not give the Hou...
Damian Green | 483 c242 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may well feel that the amendment, which seeks to improve markedly the rights of t...
David Heath | 483 c242 (Link to this contribution) I should tell the hon. Gentleman that his amendment would act against the interests of the citizen i...
Damian Green | 483 c242 (Link to this contribution) We could include it in this debate, but you might feel, Mr. Speaker, that that pushed the boundaries...
David Heath | 483 c242 (Link to this contribution) I am a little concerned about amendment (a), because it would afford a latitude to the Secretary of ...
Damian Green | 483 c243 (Link to this contribution) I do not quite agree with my right hon. and learned Friend on that, and I cannot believe that he is ...
Damian Green | 483 c243-4 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend is, as ever, courteous, but I do not agree with him because I belie...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c243 (Link to this contribution) No, I am not; I said it just in case.
Damian Green | 483 c244 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes an important point that the Minister may wish to address. The Prime Minis...
David Davis | 483 c244 (Link to this contribution) Is not the reason why the guidelines are so presumptive in favour of keeping such data that the Gove...
Lord Coaker | 483 c244 (Link to this contribution) It might be helpful to the hon. Gentleman if I tell him that the question posed by the right hon. Me...
Damian Green | 483 c245 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving us that assurance and I am sure that we would all be gratef...
Keith Vaz | 483 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to follow the hon. Member for Ashford (Damian Green). The Opposition have tabled a very s...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c246 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman address a further point? I accept, of course, that a person who is inn...
Keith Vaz | 483 c246-7 (Link to this contribution) I am reluctant to enter into a discussion of this nature with the right hon. and learned Gentleman, ...
Keith Vaz | 483 c247 (Link to this contribution) I do not disagree with anything that the hon. and learned Gentleman says. We do need a proper system...
Dominic Grieve | 483 c247 (Link to this contribution) One of the things that has struck me forcefully, as a constituency Member of Parliament, is the appa...
Keith Vaz | 483 c248 (Link to this contribution) I note the encouragement from the Opposition Whip. However, the Minister may say something wonderful...
Keith Vaz | 483 c248 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend, and I am surprised that she will not be following me into the Division ...
Margaret Moran | 483 c247-8 (Link to this contribution) While I will not follow my right hon. Friend into the Lobby on this issue, does he agree that it is ...
Chris Huhne | 483 c249 (Link to this contribution) I agree, and the amendments tabled by the hon. Member for Ashford would introduce an element of subj...
David Heath | 483 c249 (Link to this contribution) I am glad and, given what I said earlier, relieved that my hon. Friend is taking that position. The ...
Chris Huhne | 483 c248 (Link to this contribution) The Liberal Democrats welcome many of the concessions that the Government have made since we last de...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c249 (Link to this contribution) Does not the Lords amendment have the great advantage—in so far as I have correctly understood it—th...
Speaker | 483 c269 (Link to this contribution) Before we come to the next group of amendments, I should offer a word of clarification to the House....
Damian Green | 483 c262 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I agree with that. Innocent people should expect to be treated differently from those who have ...
Simon Hughes | 483 c262 (Link to this contribution) May I push the hon. Gentleman on that? On a point consistent with that position, which I entirely su...
Lord Coaker | 483 c270 (Link to this contribution) All these details have to be worked through.
Lord Garnier | 483 c270 (Link to this contribution) The Bill states, at the top of page 54:"““The Secretary of State may certify in relation to an inque...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c270 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in that statement. Is the Minister then saying that given the power to issue the cer...
Lord Coaker | 483 c270 (Link to this contribution) As hon. Members will be aware, we share a common desire to resolve the issue of ensuring that an inq...
Speaker | 483 c269 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Lords amendment No. 133 and the Government motion to disa...
Lord Coaker | 483 c269 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that this House disagrees with the Lords in the said amendment.
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c252 (Link to this contribution) I think that one needs to look at the statistical arguments a little more closely, as that is surpri...
Chris Huhne | 483 c252 (Link to this contribution) Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that the very substantial increase in the number of sa...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c252 (Link to this contribution) I am not disagreeing with my hon. and learned Friend. The conclusion to which I am going to come is ...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c250-1 (Link to this contribution) I am rather torn both on the amendment and on the Lords amendment. I hope the House will accept that...
Dominic Grieve | 483 c251-2 (Link to this contribution) The last thing that we are seeking to do is to shut off the debate. Indeed, as my right hon. and lea...
Simon Hughes | 483 c249 (Link to this contribution) It is completely misconceived to argue that we need the qualification proposed by the Conservatives ...
Chris Huhne | 483 c249-50 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point, and it is similar to the point that I started by making—that the ...
Damian Green | 483 c249 (Link to this contribution) One of the effects of the unalloyed Lords amendment would be that terrorist suspects would be entitl...
Chris Huhne | 483 c249 (Link to this contribution) In fact, the guidelines make it clear that if the case is still under investigation, that objection ...
Chris Huhne | 483 c249 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is, as always, a master tactician, and I entirely agree that were the Minister to mak...
Lord Coaker | 483 c256 (Link to this contribution) I thank all Members who have contributed to this important debate about the DNA database, DNA more g...
David Jones | 483 c256 (Link to this contribution) Personally, I feel that as a matter of principle the DNA of an innocent individual should not be kep...
David Howarth | 483 c253 (Link to this contribution) There are many people with doctorates in my constituency.
Simon Hughes | 483 c253-4 (Link to this contribution) There are lovely people with doctorates and, as one would expect, many are the constituents of my ho...
Simon Hughes | 483 c252 (Link to this contribution) I begin by apologising to the Minister for the fact that I was at an event elsewhere in the building...
Lord Coaker | 483 c253 (Link to this contribution) I have to tell the hon. Gentleman that I missed them as well!
Simon Hughes | 483 c253 (Link to this contribution) That is good, as we will be at no mutual disadvantage. I therefore redirect my apology to the hon. M...
Keith Vaz | 483 c258 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I do not think that the Minister is answering the points made in the debate. He is c...
Lord Coaker | 483 c257 (Link to this contribution) I think the hon. Gentleman is now trying to qualify the problems with the new clause. In this instan...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c257 (Link to this contribution) My understanding of subsection (1)(c) of the proposed new clause is that it would enable the Secreta...
Lord Coaker | 483 c256 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I shall turn to the amendments proposed by the hon. Member for Ashford (Damian Green)....
Chris Huhne | 483 c257 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that if, for example, the guidelines made it clear that in an ongoing inves...
Lord Coaker | 483 c257-8 (Link to this contribution) I do not regard the briefing that I received as very poor. No doubt the hon. Member for Ashford rece...
Simon Hughes | 483 c257 (Link to this contribution) May I say to the Minister, respectfully, that he has been badly briefed? That cannot be the interpre...
Speaker | 483 c256 (Link to this contribution) Order. We have to dispose of the amendment before the Minister moves the motion to disagree. At the ...
Lord Coaker | 483 c259 (Link to this contribution) I know that a different approach is taken in Scotland, and that is a matter for the Scottish Executi...
Keith Vaz | 483 c259 (Link to this contribution) It certainly goes some way to meeting the objections that I raised. However, the point remains: if t...
Margaret Moran | 483 c260 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for the approach that he is taking on the issue. Will he ensure that when gui...
Lord Coaker | 483 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes some important points, but I cannot tell her what will happen as a result of th...
Damian Green | 483 c261 (Link to this contribution) I shall start by taking on the Minister's last point, which, frankly, I found bizarre. Unlike the Li...
Lord Coaker | 483 c258-9 (Link to this contribution) I will get to that point later. I was stating our belief that, in general, the policy is effective b...
Lord Coaker | 483 c271 (Link to this contribution) The reassurance that I am sure other hon. Members want is that we will have discussions as that legi...
Chris Huhne | 483 c277 (Link to this contribution) The judge still has discretion.
Richard Shepherd | 483 c299-300 (Link to this contribution) That is the big issue. The new Bill might be introduced in the midst of a terrorist outrage and ther...
Ian Pearson | 483 c315-7 (Link to this contribution) I will go on to deal with that subject and if anything remains unclear at the end of my speech, I wi...
Speaker | 483 c324 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Lords amendments Nos. 25 to 33, 35, 36, 108 to 112, 114, ...
Damian Green | 483 c242-3 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that the hon. Gentleman and I substantively disagree. Obviously, I believe that we need to...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c256 (Link to this contribution) I entirely understand the point my hon. Friend is making. The lack of opacity is a powerful argument...
Lord Coaker | 483 c257 (Link to this contribution) All I can say is that there is doubt in the mind of the security services and those who have respons...
Lord Coaker | 483 c260 (Link to this contribution) What I am saying to my right hon. Friend is that although I cannot predict the outcome of the review...
Chris Huhne | 483 c280-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not think it has quite the same problems as the Bill as originally drafted, precisely because t...
Lord Coaker | 483 c301 (Link to this contribution) No. Before the right hon. Gentleman attempts to come to my rescue, let me say that I stand here beca...
Lord Garnier | 483 c312-3 (Link to this contribution) That was a compromise arrived at and brokered by the hon. Member for Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick). W...
Lord Coaker | 483 c270 (Link to this contribution) Not necessarily. As the right hon. and learned Gentleman knows, where we go on intercept evidence is...
David Jones | 483 c254-6 (Link to this contribution) When Baroness Hanham moved the Lords amendment in the other place she said that her aim was"““to try...
Lord Coaker | 483 c271 (Link to this contribution) We are trying to take various aspects of the process out of this Bill, and some of the questions tha...
Jeremy Corbyn | 483 c281 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman and he is correct to refer to that particular case. Is he confident,...
Lord Coaker | 483 c294 (Link to this contribution) Now that I have found the answer, here we go. The hon. and learned Member for Harborough asked me a ...
Viscount Hailsham | 483 c304 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that my comment will offend against what you said, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I simply wante...
Keith Vaz | 483 c310 (Link to this contribution) We discussed them in relation to 28 days versus 42 days, but I thought that he was saying that we sh...
Lord Coaker | 483 c324 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for my earlier rush to the Dispatch Box, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I believe that we have agre...
Dominic Grieve | 483 c259 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for those comments. Will he also ensure that if that work is carried o...
Subjects
Disclosure of information Databases Criminal records Crime prevention Crime Detainees Armed forces Death Banks Administrative delays Coroners Finance Juries Fingerprints Evidence Intelligence services Genetics Documents Legislation National security Personal records Police Powers Public interest Police custody Money laundering Parliamentary scrutiny Police interrogation Travel Terrorism Surveillance Remand in custody Police national computer Foreign travel orders Financial Action Task Force Freezing of assets
Legislation
Counter-terrorism Bill 2007-08
Link
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