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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 2 April 2009, in the House of Lords.

Saving Gateway Accounts Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
709 c291-354GC 
Session
2008-09
Department
Treasury
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Myners | 709 c320-2GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Baroness has said, these amendments would make some or all of the claimants of pension ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c315GC (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister saying that the EU may require eligibility beyond residents or those who are ordinar...
Show all contributions (152)
Lord Myners | 709 c312GC (Link to this contribution) I will investigate the details of the numbers I have shared with the Committee. If it would be helpf...
Lord Myners | 709 c300GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment seeks to allow one of HMRC’s duties under the Bill—that of issuing notes of eligibili...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 709 c292-3GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the Government—I do not support the amendment—but I want to make a couple of points. I ...
Lord Myners | 709 c334GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment seeks to limit the flexibility of regulations to set the maturity period, or account d...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 709 c322GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be withdrawing the amendment, but I thank noble Lords for taking part in this short debate, ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c325-6GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 19 would add a new subsection to Clause 4, which deals with requirements relating to accou...
Lord Myners | 709 c338-9GC (Link to this contribution) I would be very disappointed if people were saving only £1 a month, but I would not be disappointed ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c349-50GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may adapt the phrase: the noble Lady doth provoke too much. We are not about sneaking anyt...
Lord Newby | 709 c351GC (Link to this contribution) This is a probing amendment in order to seek the Government’s view on the extent to which it might b...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 709 c317GC (Link to this contribution) I join my noble friend in thanking the Minister. This is the next step in a whole package of wonderf...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 709 c317GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 11 11: Clause 3, page 2, line 28, at end insert— "( ) pension credit (but this is subject...
Lord Newby | 709 c320GC (Link to this contribution) To come back on that question of cost, I have been enjoying reading the Ipsos MORI note that the Min...
Lord Myners | 709 c316GC (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment 10, I shall speak also to Amendment 13. Together, they would make all recipients...
Lord Myners | 709 c316GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 10 10: Clause 3, page 2, line 24, at end insert— "( ) a carer’s allowance under section 7...
Lord Myners | 709 c314GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness’s amendment would put more details of the residency requirements for the scheme i...
Lord Newby | 709 c313-4GC (Link to this contribution) I have considerable sympathy with the spirit behind the amendment; I am not sure if the words are ab...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c312GC (Link to this contribution) I thank Members of the Committee for taking part in this short debate. This amendment is different f...
Lord Myners | 709 c314GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Baroness for further amplification. I am advised that residency requ...
Lord Newby | 709 c302GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 6 6: Clause 2, page 2, line 11, after "person," insert— "(aa) the eligible person after a...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c304-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in this short debate. The noble Lord, Lord Newby, i...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c300GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 4 4: Clause 2, page 2, line 4, at end insert "no later than one month after that person b...
Viscount Ullswater | 709 c300GC (Link to this contribution) There is a mistake in the Marshalled List. The proposed amendment should read, "Page 2, line 3, afte...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c298-9GC (Link to this contribution) That may well be useful, but the fact remains that HMRC is not good at doing this kind of thing, and...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c298GC (Link to this contribution) What would Ministers do without officials? I thank the Minister for that. The issue is whether a pas...
Lord Myners | 709 c298GC (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Newby, find it helpful to have a meeting with repr...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c295-6GC (Link to this contribution) I shall also speak to Amendment 5. The amendments refer to eligibility for a saving gateway account....
Baroness Noakes | 709 c291-2GC (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to start our Committee consideration of the Saving Gateway Accounts Bill. As I said...
Lord Myners | 709 c293GC (Link to this contribution) I begin by saying how much I have looked forward to this Committee stage. I know from my experience ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c329GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply and the noble Lord, Lord Newby, for taking part in this short bu...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c329GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that the noble Baroness is not suggesting that there is some kind of ideological division in ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c329GC (Link to this contribution) There is nothing wrong with public sector banks. As a matter of fact, they have been classified by N...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c329-30GC (Link to this contribution) I know the particular sensitivities of the noble Lord, Lord Myners, on the subject of nationalised b...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c333GC (Link to this contribution) I am slightly disappointed by the Minister’s response. He outlined the work that is already going on...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c333GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 21 amends Clause 4(2)(a). The paragraph says that a saving gateway account has to be held ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c334GC (Link to this contribution) One of the most frustrating things in a Bill like this, which is one long order-making power, is the...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c327-9GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the concern behind these amendments; the noble Baroness voiced them in moving the amend...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c337GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Government would consult if they proposed making changes; I do not wish to imply ...
Lord Myners | 709 c338GC (Link to this contribution) I believe that our policy in respect of minimum contributions is that the account provider can set a...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c339GC (Link to this contribution) I am content with the assurance that it is for the account providers to set rules on not accepting u...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c341GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister referred to the regulation-making powers for ISAs and child trust funds. Can he explain...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c342GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. I shall probably return to the issue on Report, because where parliam...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c343GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 26 amends Clause 5, which deals with the regulations associated with the approval of accou...
Lord Myners | 709 c344GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment concerns account holders’ savings being covered by the Financial Services Compensation...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c346GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 6: Account opening Amendment 27 27: Clause 6, page 4, line 3, leave out "true"
Lord Myners | 709 c348GC (Link to this contribution) I welcome the noble Baroness’s invitation for me to provide further clarity. Our proposed processes ...
Lord Newby | 709 c352-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. He set out the difference between the tax incentive he...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c351GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 29 withdrawn. A...
Lord Newby | 709 c351GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 31 31: Clause 6, page 4, line 17, leave out paragraph (c)
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c354GC (Link to this contribution) I say with some enthusiasm that this looks like a convenient time for the Committee to adjourn until...
Lord Williamson of Horton | 709 c317GC (Link to this contribution) I put on the record my welcome for these amendments. Some of us in this House have spent a lot of ti...
Lord Myners | 709 c315GC (Link to this contribution) We believe it is right that people who live or work in the UK and claim one of the qualifying benefi...
Lord Myners | 709 c315-6GC (Link to this contribution) Being of a charitable disposition immediately before a Recess, I am happy to admit that I am also st...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c316GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, who knows more about the benefits system than all of us put together has, as usu...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c313GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 9 9: Clause 3, page 2, line 17, leave out from "person" to end of line 18 and insert "is—...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c314GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but the Minister has not answered my question or that of the noble Lord, Lord Newby: why...
Lord Newby | 709 c306GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that comment. My concern about financial literacy and the effort that the Governme...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c306-7GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 7 amends Clause 3(1) which deals with the definition of eligible persons. Under the subsec...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c307-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am disappointed with the Government’s approach. It means that savings, which are a good thing and ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c308-9GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 12. The amendments would allow the Government to extend the category...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I am in favour of targets when they make government departments deliver things that they might not o...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c303GC (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to support the noble Lord, Lord Newby. The Government would do better to focus attent...
Lord Newby | 709 c303GC (Link to this contribution) This is a probing amendment designed to flush out from the Government how they will attempt to ensur...
Lord Newby | 709 c305GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. The idea is that the answer to the problem of someone ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I do not have a definitive answer to that question but it seems like a constructive proposal. I am p...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c300-1GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 4, like the previous amendment, adds words to Clause 2(1). This would require HMRC to issu...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c299-300GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment adds a few words to Clause 2(1). Under this subsection the commissioners must issue n...
Lord Myners | 709 c296-8GC (Link to this contribution) These amendments are concerned with the relationship between a person’s eligibility and the notices ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c295GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 2 2: Clause 1, page 1, line 17, leave out paragraph (b)
Baroness Noakes | 709 c291GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 1: Saving Gateway accounts Amendment 1 1: Clause 1, page 1, line 12, leave out subsection (...
Lord Newby | 709 c293GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt. I do not know whether the Minister’s letters to the noble Baroness were pri...
Lord Myners | 709 c329GC (Link to this contribution) With all due respect, the noble Baroness has still not got it quite right. They are the banks tempor...
Lord Myners | 709 c332-3GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the noble Baroness’s intention in tabling these amendments, which would ensure that eli...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c330-2GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 20 seeks to amend Clause 4 and, like my previous amendment, adds another matter to which H...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c333GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 21 21: Clause 4, page 3, line 10, after "period" insert "of not less than 12 months"
Baroness Noakes | 709 c334-5GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendment 23. Both amendments would amend Clause 4 and set out in primary legi...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c334GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 22 22: Clause 4, page 3, line 20, at end insert— "( ) Regulations may not require an acco...
Lord Myners | 709 c335-6GC (Link to this contribution) These amendments are broadly concerned with the requirements that will be imposed on providers of sa...
Lord Newby | 709 c335GC (Link to this contribution) Both of these seem to be sensible provisions, and I am sure that the Government agree with them. Tha...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c324-5GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that he should have had £5 each time he had been in a "may" or "shall" debate and ...
Lord Myners | 709 c323GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 13 13: Clause 3, page 2, line 31, at end insert— "(3A) A person is not an eligible person...
Lord Newby | 709 c326-7GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment raises an issue that I addressed at length at Second Reading, which is whether any na...
Lord Myners | 709 c337GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for allowing me to add that we are also in very active discussio...
Lord Myners | 709 c338GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment would amend Clause 4(3) so that regulations may impose a minimum and maximum limit on ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c337-8GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment would amend Clause 4(3). Subsection (3) states: ""Regulations may … impose a limit on ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c338GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister is unwilling for the Government to say what minimum level would equal a saving, so woul...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c338GC (Link to this contribution) Did the Minister say that the Government are happy for account providers to set their own rules for ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c339GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 25 requires regulations made under Clause 4(2) and (3) to be subject to the affirmative pr...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c339GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 25 25: Clause 4, page 3, line 28, at end insert— "( ) Regulations made under subsections ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c339-41GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness has introduced an amendment that deals with some interesting issues. As she recog...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c342GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness tempts me, particularly as she has entered into the debate on the virtues of the ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c341-2GC (Link to this contribution) If the Minister reflects on that he will realise that the subscription limits on child trust funds a...
Lord Morgan | 709 c343-4GC (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak in support of the amendment for reasons that the noble Baroness may find rather star...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c345GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply and the noble Lord, Lord Morgan, for taking part in this debate. ...
Lord Morgan | 709 c344GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness replies, my noble friend says that the ombudsman will inevitably be part o...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c346-7GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 27 deletes "true" from Clause 6(2)(b). I shall also speak to Amendment 28, which would del...
Lord Myners | 709 c347-8GC (Link to this contribution) Both of these amendments relate to account opening. As Members of the Committee may be aware from th...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c345GC (Link to this contribution) We shall see if the noble Lord gets gold stars at the end of our consideration of the Bill. I beg le...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c348GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s comments, and I am sure that it will be helpful to those who read t...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c348-9GC (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment 29, I shall speak to Amendments 30 and 32 in this group. These amendments relate...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c348GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 29 29: Clause 6, page 4, line 13, leave out "at the same time" and insert "during his lif...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c350GC (Link to this contribution) If I had £5 for every time a Minister responded with the need for flexibility whenever I queried one...
Lord Morgan | 709 c351GC (Link to this contribution) Since my name has been invoked, as a fellow warrior, the noble Lord, Lord Newby, will not be surpris...
Baroness Pitkeathley | 709 c317GC (Link to this contribution) Noble Lords will not be surprised to learn that I, too, welcome these amendments, and I think I spea...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 709 c317-9GC (Link to this contribution) Apropos of nothing at all, at some point I hope that Her Majesty’s Treasury will be able to link the...
Lord Newby | 709 c319GC (Link to this contribution) One of the arguments against the noble Baroness’s amendment, with which I have considerable sympathy...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c320GC (Link to this contribution) I also give qualified support to the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. I do not think th...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c315GC (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting debate. I could not have anticipated that the Government would say that...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 709 c316GC (Link to this contribution) If my noble friend and the noble Baroness will allow me, I should like to comment because I did not ...
Lord Myners | 709 c315GC (Link to this contribution) European Union law changes may mean that the Government have to extend eligibility beyond ordinary r...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c315GC (Link to this contribution) In that case, I return to my previous question. Why is the Bill not restricted at least to residents...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c313GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 9 amends Clause 3(1)(b). Paragraph (b) states that the connection with the UK necessary ga...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c312GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for that. At the heart of this is whether any extension of the scheme would b...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c314-5GC (Link to this contribution) Well, I will try the second question that the Minister did not answer before deciding what to do wit...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c306GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 3: Eligible persons Amendment 7 7: Clause 3, page 2, line 15, after "to" insert "claim"
Lord Myners | 709 c307GC (Link to this contribution) I note that the noble Baroness describes this as a probing amendment. It would extend the scheme to ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c308GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 8 8: Clause 3, page 2, line 16, after "(2)" insert "or the person satisfies the condition...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 709 c309GC (Link to this contribution) This is an area where I think it would be very desirable for the Government to have reserve powers o...
Lord Myners | 709 c310-2GC (Link to this contribution) These amendments relate to eligibility for the savings gateway account, and as with Amendment 7, aim...
Lord Newby | 709 c309-10GC (Link to this contribution) At first blush, the amendment has quite a bit to recommend it, but the more I think about it—this wa...
Lord Morgan | 709 c304GC (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment simply in terms of the general purposes of this excellent Bill. We are tryi...
Lord Newby | 709 c305GC (Link to this contribution) They may or may not speak to a human being, but even if they did, it is at odds with the reality of ...
Lord Morgan | 709 c305GC (Link to this contribution) They would not speak to a human being.
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c305-6GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will know that with regard to financial inclusion, we are concerned about how to reac...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that. Does the Treasury expect HMRC to be given specific targets in respect...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c300GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that explanation and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment 3 withdrawn...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c301-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for the terms in which she has moved the amendment, as she is se...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c299GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 2: Notices of eligibility Amendment 3 3: Clause 2, page 2, line 2, after "issue" insert "or...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c298GC (Link to this contribution) Before I decide what to do with my amendment, what will be the notice period to which the Minister r...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c294-5GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister must remember never to ask me to be kind. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Williamson, for...
Lord Myners | 709 c293-4GC (Link to this contribution) Even at this very moment, a copy is winging its way towards the noble Lord, Lord Newby. I suspect th...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c330GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 20 20: Clause 4, page 3, line 8, at end insert— "( ) In approving account holders, the Co...
Lord Myners | 709 c336GC (Link to this contribution) I simply want to keep the flexibility to respond to changes. As I think I made clear, none is antici...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c336GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response and the noble Lord, Lord Newby, for his support. I shall deal ...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c325GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 4: Requirements relating to accounts Amendment 19 19: Clause 4, page 3, line 8, at end inse...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c323-4GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Baroness that there is not much between the position she has adumbrated and t...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c323GC (Link to this contribution) In moving this amendment, I will speak also to Amendments A16 and A17 in the group. They amend subse...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c323GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 14 14: Clause 3, page 2, line 32, leave out "may" and insert "shall"
Baroness Noakes | 709 c337GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment 24 24: Clause 4, page 3, line 21, after "the" insert "minimum and maximum"
Baroness Noakes | 709 c337GC (Link to this contribution) I wish the Minister would be precise when he refers to the banks. They are not private but public se...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c341GC (Link to this contribution) For both the ISAs and the child trust fund the subscription limits are set out in secondary legislat...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c342GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 5: Approvals Amendment 26 26: Clause 5, page 3, line 36, at end insert— "( ) Regulations un...
Lord Myners | 709 c345GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that in so doing I am reducing the average time of my response to something closer to a targe...
Lord Myners | 709 c345GC (Link to this contribution) I anticipate that that will be included in the information that is made available by HMRC when advis...
Baroness Noakes | 709 c348GC (Link to this contribution) I shall read carefully what the Minister said about the inclusion of the word "true" for clarity in ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c353-4GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the noble Lord; I should have answered that question before. It is possible to extend...
Lord Newby | 709 c354GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Lord for clarifying that point, and I beg leave to withdraw the amen...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c351-2GC (Link to this contribution) I did not doubt that my noble friend would make that comment. I have therefore had the argument, whi...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 709 c351GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is now presenting the argument in more acceptable terms. I have never known any G...
Subjects
Compensation Carers Administration Costs Bank services Delegated legislation Advisory services Department for Work and Pensions Eligibility Information Financial services European communities Domicil Pension credit Pensioners Personal savings Low incomes Social security benefits Welfare tax credits Take-up Revenue and Customs Saving gateway Financial Services Compensation Scheme
Legislation
Saving Gateway Accounts Bill 2008-09
Link
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