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Debate on Monday, 15 March 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Bob Ainsworth. The answering member was Liam Fox.

Defence in the World

Debate on a motion that this House has considered the matter of defence in the world.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
507 c613-96 
Session
2009-10
Department
Ministry of Defence
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Denis MacShane | 507 c636 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to clog up this debate, because other hon. Members want to speak. Will Opposition Memb...
Denis MacShane | 507 c635 (Link to this contribution) I am making one simple point: on the issue of our soldiers and those of our allies in Europe who are...
Show all contributions (170)
Liam Fox | 507 c635 (Link to this contribution) I am very interested, because a crucial issue is coming up. The right hon. Gentleman suggests that w...
Denis MacShane | 507 c635 (Link to this contribution) It is roughly for the same reason why, on the day that the Falklands war broke out 28 years ago, the...
Liam Fox | 507 c635 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way again. As he knows, I am no fan of the EDA....
Denis MacShane | 507 c635 (Link to this contribution) I am making no comments; I am talking about what the French are proposing. If the Opposition are ser...
Ben Wallace | 507 c636 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman's wandering ramblings about defence policy, but I t...
Liam Fox | 507 c635 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the point about the funding of PSC. Is the right hon. Gentleman suggesting a fund...
Liam Fox | 507 c632 (Link to this contribution) I detect in the House an appetite for further debate on the subject, and no doubt those hon. Members...
Andrew Mackinlay | 507 c631 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman and others reflect on the fact that while we can measure our nuclear strengt...
Liam Fox | 507 c630-1 (Link to this contribution) It is clear that the commitments that we have already entered into with Taiwan should be honoured. W...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 507 c631 (Link to this contribution) Many right hon. and hon. Members have had the privilege of being briefed on the threat posed by an e...
Liam Fox | 507 c631 (Link to this contribution) We are here today to ask questions of the Government. These are debates that the country needs to ha...
Denis MacShane | 507 c633-4 (Link to this contribution) I enjoyed the speech by the shadow Defence Secretary, the hon. Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox). It w...
Liam Fox | 507 c632-3 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State acknowledges the size of the threat that we face, and of the frequency and th...
Nick Harvey | 507 c646 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Lady seriously suggesting that we should sustain a nuclear deterrent—or a particular con...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c645-6 (Link to this contribution) First, may I pay tribute to the service personnel who have lost their lives over the past year? This...
Nick Harvey | 507 c644-5 (Link to this contribution) I know nothing of any such policy as the one that the hon. Gentleman describes as admirably consiste...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c644 (Link to this contribution) To give the hon. Gentleman credit, the one policy that has been thought about in detail over a long ...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c647 (Link to this contribution) My recollection of Saif Sareea 2 was that it happened immediately before the Iraq invasion. Indeed, ...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c647 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has served on the Defence Committee for a long time, and I know that she will want to ...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c646 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman misunderstands the position very substantially. The purpose of the nuclear deterr...
Paul Keetch | 507 c646 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Lady explain why the British Army went through operational exercises Saif Sareea 1 and ...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c647 (Link to this contribution) In response to the IED threats that have most recently exercised Members, we have ongoing urgent ope...
Denis MacShane | 507 c647 (Link to this contribution) In trying to respond to the points raised by Opposition Members, my hon. Friend is putting herself i...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c649-51 (Link to this contribution) I certainly agree with my hon. Friend's point, which relates to the whole issue of the future role o...
Alison Seabeck | 507 c648 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend acknowledge that that approach is somewhat misguided—I am sure that is the point...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c653 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that there is a great prize to be achieved? Bernard Gray said th...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 507 c651-3 (Link to this contribution) I should like to use the opportunity presented by the final defence debate of this Parliament to loo...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 507 c653 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree. The hon. Lady correctly pinpoints some praise that Bernard Gray rightly expressed ...
Ann Winterton | 507 c653 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that in the past many mistakes have been made in defence procurement...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 507 c653-4 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. I would go further. Many of those mistakes are ones that she, through h...
Dai Havard | 507 c654 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman will know of the observations the Defence Committee made about the FRES—fut...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 507 c654-5 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The hon. Gentleman is another whose assiduity on the Defence Committee brings great enlighte...
Madeleine Moon | 507 c637 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree, though, that the Ministry of Defence, in promoting the comprehensiv...
Denis MacShane | 507 c636-7 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry but the Italians produce helicopters, the Germans produce tanks and—if the Opposition are...
Julian Lewis | 507 c641-2 (Link to this contribution) Let me make the Conservatives' position crystal clear. Our position is that outwith the terms of ref...
Nick Harvey | 507 c642 (Link to this contribution) We have a nuclear deterrent. It is there, it is paid for, and it has another 20 years of life in it....
Julian Lewis | 507 c641 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his usual courtesy in giving way. As I understand it, both the Govern...
Nick Harvey | 507 c641 (Link to this contribution) I thought that the Government and Opposition had said rather more than that—I thought that they had ...
Denis MacShane | 507 c638-9 (Link to this contribution) I obviously believe firmly that, if we are returned to power with a handsome majority, the defence o...
Nick Harvey | 507 c639-41 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this opportunity to take part in a debate on defence in the world, and I am glad that the ...
Denis MacShane | 507 c637-8 (Link to this contribution) I am always happy to say that British is best, but I do not want to focus too much on Afghanistan. I...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 507 c638 (Link to this contribution) May I place on record, I think on behalf of the Defence Committee and probably also on behalf of the...
Speaker | 507 c642 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before the hon. Member for North Devon (Nick Harvey) replies, may I remind all Members that i...
Ian Davidson | 507 c643 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman confirm that he does not intend to examine the break clauses in contracts on...
Nick Harvey | 507 c644 (Link to this contribution) Certainly not. We have no intention of doing some quick and dirty defence review on the back of a fa...
Nick Harvey | 507 c642-3 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. No one is saying that we should close off the option for future Go...
Nick Harvey | 507 c643 (Link to this contribution) Ah! The hon. Gentleman wishes to intervene on that very subject.
Ian Davidson | 507 c643 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman's speech has been very interesting so far, but will he now remind me of the Liber...
Ian Davidson | 507 c681 (Link to this contribution) Like other hon. Members who have spoken, I should like to pay tribute to those who serve and, in par...
Andrew Murrison | 507 c681 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is quite right to be an advocate for his constituents, but he is quite wrong to s...
Paul Keetch | 507 c677 (Link to this contribution) When our forces come home, whether to Wootton Bassett or any other town or city—as the hon. Gentlema...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c677-81 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes some good points. I grew up in Herefordshire and would like to pay tribute ...
Ian Davidson | 507 c682 (Link to this contribution) I am satisfied with the commitments that I have had from the Ministry. I am absolutely clear where t...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 507 c682 (Link to this contribution) These speeches that the hon. Gentleman makes are always extremely entertaining, but perhaps he would...
Ian Davidson | 507 c681 (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, the massive difference between the Government and the Opposition is that we have...
Andrew Murrison | 507 c682 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is indulging in the narcissism of small differences. That would be fine and acade...
Andrew Murrison | 507 c682 (Link to this contribution) It is important to get this straight, so I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for being generous in g...
Ian Davidson | 507 c682 (Link to this contribution) But the Government have given no indication that on day one of the next Labour Government—or on any ...
Ian Davidson | 507 c682-4 (Link to this contribution) I would take the view that break clauses are appropriate in all contracts above a certain level so t...
Andrew Murrison | 507 c684 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to commence the wind-ups at such an early hour. We have had a series of good contri...
Ian Davidson | 507 c684 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman also recognise that no Members from the Scottish National party are present ...
Andrew Murrison | 507 c685 (Link to this contribution) Indeed; the hon. Gentleman's comment is on the record. I think that there was a Member from the SNP ...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c685 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just referred to the fact that the headquarters is co-located with PJHQ, but ...
Andrew Murrison | 507 c685-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I will deal with Europe in some depth further on in my remarks. The...
Dai Havard | 507 c689 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that I also made a suggestion about how we might resolve some of the ...
Andrew Murrison | 507 c689-90 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely acknowledge that. As I said in passing, the House has recently strengthened the Committ...
Bill Rammell | 507 c690-1 (Link to this contribution) It is an unusual experience for a Minister of State responding to such a debate to begin his speech ...
Dai Havard | 507 c664-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is correct. That is enough Defence Committee anecdotes, but that story is an exam...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c666-9 (Link to this contribution) If I may take this liberty, Mr. Deputy Speaker, let me say what a pleasure it is to be called by you...
Dai Havard | 507 c663-4 (Link to this contribution) Before I dare launch into my speech, may I pay tribute to the contribution of the hon. Member for Sp...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c664 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman recall the other part of the story, which is that the Iraqi guests on the Br...
Madeleine Moon | 507 c655-9 (Link to this contribution) I spent this weekend preparing for today's debate. On the way up on the train, I read through the sp...
David Wilshire | 507 c659-63 (Link to this contribution) It is a privilege to follow a speech such as the one that we have just heard. I do not necessarily a...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c669 (Link to this contribution) I share the hon. Lady's view, and the Defence Committee heard telling evidence from the director of ...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c669 (Link to this contribution) You will be pleased to hear, Mr. Deputy Speaker, that I will refrain from being drawn into a debate ...
Paul Keetch | 507 c669 (Link to this contribution) Why should health and international development budgets be ring-fenced and not the defence budget? S...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c670 (Link to this contribution) I think the hon. Gentleman knows that we are on record as having supported the aircraft carriers for...
Paul Keetch | 507 c670 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c670-2 (Link to this contribution) No, the hon. Gentleman will have his chance when he concludes the debate later. The point is that ou...
Alison Seabeck | 507 c672-5 (Link to this contribution) I should begin by associating myself with comments made by right hon. and hon. Members on both sides...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c669 (Link to this contribution) I think I know what the hon. Gentleman is going to say. It is a matter of record that he never stand...
Ian Davidson | 507 c669-70 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful. In fact, I was going to ask the hon. Gentleman whether he agrees that it is important...
David Hamilton | 507 c676 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the sentiments that the hon. Gentleman has just expressed. However, while we speak of w...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c675-6 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin) on making an excellent speech ...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c676-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to raise that point. I know that he has spent a long time thinking about...
Bill Rammell | 507 c696 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman wants a further discussion about this—I will give way briefly to him—I would b...
Bill Rammell | 507 c695 (Link to this contribution) A strategic defence review is not just a matter for the military and the MOD, just as our Green Pape...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c694-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his kind remarks. May I ask him how that global role will be defin...
Bill Rammell | 507 c693-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman shakes his head, but that is the reality, and that is why Members across the Hous...
Bill Rammell | 507 c695 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to make some progress. The hon. Member for The Wrekin also asked about the Borona progra...
Bill Rammell | 507 c695 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend made clear before the Select Committee, there has been a reconfiguration of the pr...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 507 c695 (Link to this contribution) Now that the Minister has the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the hon. Member for Grantham and...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c692 (Link to this contribution) As it seems that the chiefs of staff went to the Defence Committee and, in their answers, presented ...
Bill Rammell | 507 c692 (Link to this contribution) I genuinely have the most enormous respect for the military, and I work with them daily. I know that...
Bill Rammell | 507 c692-3 (Link to this contribution) I reiterate that I have the greatest respect for the military, and I know that among many personnel ...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 507 c691 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister remember that the Labour party was demanding greater cuts than those which actuall...
Bill Rammell | 507 c691 (Link to this contribution) As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State rightly pointed out, there was a staggering 10.24 per...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c692 (Link to this contribution) The Minister speaks about responsibility, but let us pause for a moment, because right now our armed...
Bill Rammell | 507 c691-2 (Link to this contribution) Just as Oppositions make statements and claims, Governments have the responsibility to act, and this...
Ian Davidson | 507 c692 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister believe that it is simply coincidence when, as we move towards a general election,...
Bill Rammell | 507 c692 (Link to this contribution) The public expect us to be judged on our record, and in the past three years we have increased our f...
Bill Rammell | 507 c696 (Link to this contribution) I reiterate to the hon. Gentleman what I have just said: there is no intention to mothball the site....
Mark Pritchard | 507 c696 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister of State, but it is important for my constituents and people througho...
Liam Fox | 507 c624-6 (Link to this contribution) May I begin by paying tribute to all our service personnel who have made sacrifices for our safety s...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c626 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a powerful case, as he always does. Does he share my concern that the chemical,...
Liam Fox | 507 c626-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to that. I think that we need to consider the full range of threats at home and abroad....
William Cash | 507 c627 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear my hon. Friend deal with the subject matter of this debate in the context of ...
Liam Fox | 507 c627-9 (Link to this contribution) The most important element is that the defence and security of the United Kingdom remain the sole pr...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c629 (Link to this contribution) I join my hon. Friend in welcoming the potential for productive bilateralism with France, alongside ...
Liam Fox | 507 c629-30 (Link to this contribution) That caution is certainly something that would have to be taken very seriously, but if we are able—e...
Denis MacShane | 507 c630 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentioned China. Should Britain and NATO extend a security guarantee to Taiwan?
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c624 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has been bidding for a continued armed forces presence in his constituency for a ...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c623 (Link to this contribution) The Foreign Secretary has made our position clear: it is that our sovereignty of the Falklands is un...
Ian Davidson | 507 c623 (Link to this contribution) May I take my right hon. Friend back to the question of programmes? There is already an enormous gul...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c622-3 (Link to this contribution) I think the hon. Gentleman misunderstood what I just said. This year, according to our latest estima...
Andrew Mackinlay | 507 c623 (Link to this contribution) The military and maritime presence around the Turks and Caicos Islands, for instance, is wholly inad...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c624 (Link to this contribution) Our efforts to wind each other up have been mutual, and although they have probably been mutually un...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c624 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State referred to Operation Borona and the draw-down of British troops from Germany...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c623 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend cannot expect me to make announcements ahead of making the announcements, but announc...
David Wilshire | 507 c623-4 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman knows that I have spent a fair bit of my 23 years here in Committee Rooms t...
Tobias Ellwood | 507 c622 (Link to this contribution) The £5 billion figure is astonishing. If that amount is required, it is required, but it is bleeding...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c624 (Link to this contribution) These decisions are not taken lightly, and they are not easy decisions, but prioritising Afghanistan...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c621-2 (Link to this contribution) Decisions about the long term have yet to be made. We have committed ourselves to a strategic defenc...
Philip Dunne | 507 c621 (Link to this contribution) The Minister of State announced today that 1 Signal Brigade and 102 Logistic Brigade are no longer c...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c621 (Link to this contribution) I must tell the hon. Gentleman that I want to make some progress now. The truth is that the shadow ...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c621 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c621 (Link to this contribution) I am talking about next year. We cannot get a commitment about next year from the party to which the...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c620 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must not try to put words in my mouth. I have produced a Green Paper and said tha...
Bernard Jenkin | 507 c620 (Link to this contribution) I trust the Secretary of State will be in the Chamber when I rise to deliver my remarks, because I w...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c620 (Link to this contribution) I understand that that is precisely what has been said, but it goes far wider than that. The point I...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c620 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State talks about straight answers, but would he like to put on the record whether ...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c620 (Link to this contribution) I have been very clear that that will form part of a strategic defence review. I have equally said t...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c619 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that the treatment our troops get back here and the appreciat...
Ian Davidson | 507 c620 (Link to this contribution) I rise to seek clarification on that point, because my understanding is that the Conservatives inten...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c620 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says, "Quite right". So, should the Conservatives win the forthcoming election, t...
Bob Spink | 507 c619 (Link to this contribution) This issue cuts right to the heart of the morale of our troops, which is damaged by people playing p...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c619 (Link to this contribution) I shall first give way to the hon. Gentleman.
Denis MacShane | 507 c618-9 (Link to this contribution) Frankly, I wish my right hon. Friend would move on because he should not give any credence or credit...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c619 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend; I will move on to some other issues and consider some of the other com...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c618 (Link to this contribution) I say to the hon. Gentleman and all his hon. Friends that I have never criticised anybody in the Opp...
Speaker | 507 c617 (Link to this contribution) Order. We have got quite a bit of time for this debate, but there are a lot of people who want to ta...
Ann Winterton | 507 c617 (Link to this contribution) On this occasion, the Secretary of State is quite wrong. I want to ask him about the lessons that ha...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c617 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. Lady, who I think wants to come back to vehicles.
John Baron | 507 c614-5 (Link to this contribution) Although the Secretary of State is right that troops on their own cannot provide the entire solution...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c615-6 (Link to this contribution) The changes that Major-General Carter has announced will address that issue to a degree, but not to ...
Mark Pritchard | 507 c616 (Link to this contribution) The Defence Secretary mentioned urgent operational requirements. He will know that BAE Land Systems ...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c616 (Link to this contribution) On the Scout vehicle, we have run a competition, in which two companies have been involved, both of ...
Tobias Ellwood | 507 c616-7 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State mentioned Op Telic and referred to lessons learned. What I picked up during m...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c613-4 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House has considered the matter of defence in the world." The armed forces...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c614 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman anticipates me. I am coming to the issue of Sangin, as people would expect me to ...
Tobias Ellwood | 507 c614 (Link to this contribution) I, too, have just come back from a visit to Afghanistan and share the Secretary of State's cautious ...
Julian Lewis | 507 c642 (Link to this contribution) As I rise to speak at the Dispatch Box again, let me say this to the hon. Gentleman. The nuclear det...
Liam Fox | 507 c631-2 (Link to this contribution) As my right hon. Friend knows, other countries, notably the United States, have spent a lot of money...
Nick Harvey | 507 c643 (Link to this contribution) The position on the aircraft carriers is the same as it has always been. We believe that absolutely ...
Madeleine Moon | 507 c669 (Link to this contribution) We have heard in the debate that our defence procurement is not a model example, but it is not as ba...
Tobias Ellwood | 507 c632 (Link to this contribution) On the important subject of cyber security, does my hon. Friend agree that perhaps we can learn less...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c647-8 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely correct. I was going to make that point later. It is remarkable t...
James Gray | 507 c624 (Link to this contribution) I am sure the Secretary of State has at the forefront of his mind that an ideal location for the rep...
William Cash | 507 c621 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State accept the suggestion by the Royal United Services Institute that over t...
David TC Davies | 507 c618 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State tell us why previous visits took place just before the Prime Minister wa...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c617-8 (Link to this contribution) Talisman is in theatre and being used. Of course lessons are learned all the time, but the IED threa...
Bob Ainsworth | 507 c617 (Link to this contribution) I would say to the hon. Gentleman that that is a little harsh. The Americans learned some huge lesso...
Subjects
Armed forces Defence Deployment Defence equipment National security Nuclear weapons Public expenditure Proliferation Terrorism Security Afghanistan
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