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Social Security

Secondary information

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

523 c1173-213 

Session

2010-12

Department

Department for Work and Pensions

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2011
Thursday, 3 February 2011
Statutory instruments
House of Commons
House of Lords

Proceeding contributions

Steve Webb | 523 c1178 (524 3-4mc) (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising that point. We are, of course, driven by the Office for N...

Steve Webb | 523 c1211 (Link to this contribution) I come back to my point that as the basic state pension is a big part of pensioners' income, particu...

Show all contributions (110)

John McDonnell | 523 c1210 (Link to this contribution) Did the Minister ever consider a quadruple lock so that, earnings or inflation, CPI or RPI, whicheve...

Steve Webb | 523 c1207-10 (Link to this contribution) We are doing it this year for pretty much every benefit in the entire uprating order, which runs to ...

John McDonnell | 523 c1210-1 (Link to this contribution) There is a point of principle that the Minister and I have argued over the past 13 years at least, w...

Steve Webb | 523 c1210 (Link to this contribution) We did look at that. Either one could say that what one is trying to do with pensions and benefits i...

Gordon Henderson | 523 c1201-2 (Link to this contribution) A lot has been said about CPI and RPI, but I will avoid the technical aspects of that and restrict m...

John McDonnell | 523 c1202-3 (Link to this contribution) I will not apologise for breaking the consensus—although I was about to apologise to the hon. Member...

Gordon Henderson | 523 c1203 (Link to this contribution) And Sheppey.

Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 523 c1206-7 (Link to this contribution) The matter under discussion has long-term and considerable public policy implications. Indeed, the F...

Steve Webb | 523 c1207 (Link to this contribution) We have had a worthwhile debate, with some thoughtful and well-informed contributions. I compliment ...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1207 (Link to this contribution) If CPI uprating is right in principle, why are the Government not doing it this year?

John McDonnell | 523 c1203-4 (Link to this contribution) I would not want to miss out Sheppey. Let us take the common-sense approach of the hon. Member for S...

Mike Freer | 523 c1204-5 (Link to this contribution) I wish to correct the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore), who talked about mortgages in...

Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 523 c1205-6 (Link to this contribution) My contribution will be brief, but I want to speak because we are taking a momentous decision today....

Jane Ellison | 523 c1206 (Link to this contribution) I must press the hon. Lady. She refers to the impact on pensioners, but does she give regard to the ...

Rehman Chishti | 523 c1198-9 (Link to this contribution) I very much welcome these initiatives by the Government, as they will help to improve the quality of...

Sheila Gilmore | 523 c1199 (Link to this contribution) If the change to the CPI is such a good move, why are the Government running scared of using it as p...

Sheila Gilmore | 523 c1200 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that figure might well grow in future? Given the level of borrowi...

Hywel Williams | 523 c1200-1 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good point. Indeed, I think I might be one of those people. I understand that the ave...

Naomi Long | 523 c1200 (Link to this contribution) One argument for the change to CPI is that many of those in receipt of a pension are insulated from ...

Hywel Williams | 523 c1200 (Link to this contribution) That is a valid point. Of course, the variation across the country is quite substantial. I refer aga...

Rehman Chishti | 523 c1199 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises a good and pertinent point. He said 50p, but to be fair to the Opposition,...

Hywel Williams | 523 c1199-200 (Link to this contribution) I begin by welcoming the Government's change of mind on housing benefits. If that had not happened, ...

Rehman Chishti | 523 c1199 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady raises an interesting point, which I think was dealt with by the Minister. She refers ...

Stephen Lloyd | 523 c1199 (Link to this contribution) I take my hon. Friend's point entirely. Does he agree that one of the profound advantages of the tri...

Jenny Willott | 523 c1193-4 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Lady might well be aware, as a Liberal Democrat I stood on a manifesto that said we woul...

Anne Begg | 523 c1194-5 (Link to this contribution) It is nice to see such a large crowd of Members in the Chamber for this debate. I have attended bene...

Stephen Lloyd | 523 c1195 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that even under CPI, because the coalition Government are linking it with e...

Anne Begg | 523 c1195 (Link to this contribution) But that is assuming that the only income that pensioners have is the basic state pension, which is ...

Anne Begg | 523 c1196 (Link to this contribution) CPI is still much less. Perhaps the average is taken from rent overall, not only in the private rent...

Jeremy Corbyn | 523 c1196 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made an important argument about the level of rent increases, particularly in the...

Anne Begg | 523 c1196-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. There is a triple whammy on people who live in London in high rent areas: t...

Steve Webb | 523 c1197 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is a thoughtful person who will know that there is an issue of short-term deficit redu...

Anne Begg | 523 c1197-8 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham claimed that there might be a case for deficit reductio...

Jenny Willott | 523 c1192 (Link to this contribution) As I understand the way in which that relates to working-age households, people who are on benefits ...

Hywel Williams | 523 c1192 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is generous. She has mentioned the triple lock many times. Is she at all concerned abo...

Jenny Willott | 523 c1191-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for her comment. The issue is likely to be taken up by the Minister in his sum...

Kate Green | 523 c1192 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady accept that CPI is not a good measure for most working-age households precisely b...

Jenny Willott | 523 c1193 (Link to this contribution) Like the hon. Gentleman, I was not a Member of Parliament at the time, but I would have expressed my...

Sheila Gilmore | 523 c1193 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady not accept that pensioner poverty was substantially tackled by the Labour Governm...

Jenny Willott | 523 c1192 (Link to this contribution) I would have thought that being too generous to pensioners was a good thing.

Sheila Gilmore | 523 c1193 (Link to this contribution) Do I take it from the hon. Lady that she would support the raising of the basic state pension to the...

Jenny Willott | 523 c1193 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely accept that the previous Labour Government tried to tackle pensioner poverty by introdu...

Steve Webb | 523 c1179 (Link to this contribution) When we produced the initial impact assessment on the changes, we divided schemes into four groups a...

Jim Cunningham | 523 c1179 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Minister and to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for coming in late to the Chamber. Wi...

Steve Webb | 523 c1179 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that point, because there is a difference between public and...

Albert Owen | 523 c1179 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is giving the House a very thorough outline of his plans, but does he acknowledge that ...

Steve Webb | 523 c1179-80 (Link to this contribution) It is important for the people who have contacted the hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham)...

Albert Owen | 523 c1180 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister say how many people he is talking about? No one has written to me to say that they ...

Steve Webb | 523 c1180 (Link to this contribution) People often miss one important point. The numbers on pensions in payment are in a sense straightfor...

Rehman Chishti | 523 c1180 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for clarifying the situation on SERPS. Will he confirm that the previo...

Steve Webb | 523 c1180 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is quite right. One of my first tasks as a Minister was quite strange. I had to write...

Baroness Clark of Kilwinning | 523 c1180 (Link to this contribution) When the Chancellor announced the change in his emergency Budget last June, he said that it would sa...

Anne Begg | 523 c1175 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman clarify whether the move from RPI to CPI has anything to do with deficit red...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1177 (Link to this contribution) I think that I know the answer to my question on the basis of what the Minister is saying, but I wan...

Steve Webb | 523 c1177 (Link to this contribution) Yes. For all the reasons I have been giving, we regard CPI as a more stable and appropriate measure ...

Steve Webb | 523 c1175-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady asks an important question. I will deal specifically with the budget deficit. However,...

Sheila Gilmore | 523 c1178 (Link to this contribution) Will the Government give the House a time scale in which it will consider these matters to do with C...

Kate Green | 523 c1177 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the Minister's argument for making CPI permanent. Will he comment on Lord Freud's...

Steve Webb | 523 c1177 (Link to this contribution) To be clear, my noble Friend was talking about the indexation of the housing benefit limit of the 30...

Anne Begg | 523 c1178-9 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister quantify the number of private occupational pensions that will not adopt the floor...

Speaker | 523 c1173 (Link to this contribution) I understand that it will be for the convenience of the House if we take motions 2 and 3 together.

Steve Webb | 523 c1173 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That the draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2011, which was laid before t...

Anne Begg | 523 c1175 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman like to quote the Leader of the Opposition further, where he said that if t...

Steve Webb | 523 c1175 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I have heard it intimated that the Opposition support using a tempor...

Speaker | 523 c1173 (Link to this contribution) With this we shall discuss the following motion on pensions:"That the draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensi...

Steve Webb | 523 c1173-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal briefly with the Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2011. The order provides fo...

Kate Green | 523 c1174 (Link to this contribution) Naturally, elderly people will be relieved by the news about the winter fuel and cold weather paymen...

Steve Webb | 523 c1174-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is absolutely right that home insulation is an important part of this: it is not just ...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1188-9 (Link to this contribution) Yes, there are some serious problems here, and I hope we will hear responses to them. I pay tribute ...

John McDonnell | 523 c1188 (Link to this contribution) May I, through my right hon. Friend, give the Minister an opportunity to respond to a question? Is i...

Jane Ellison | 523 c1189 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Gentleman has opened up the debate about other welfare payments, I shall have one ...

Rachel Reeves | 523 c1190 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady says that we will not debate uprating in the future, but because the Government have r...

Jenny Willott | 523 c1190 (Link to this contribution) Like the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), I refer to the Welfare Reform Bill, althoug...

Eilidh Whiteford | 523 c1191 (Link to this contribution) One of the big concerns is that the Royal Statistical Society has said that the CPI is not a good me...

Jenny Willott | 523 c1190-1 (Link to this contribution) I shall clarify my remarks in case anyone misunderstood me. I said that we will not be debating comp...

Steve Webb | 523 c1187-8 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has raised a serious point. I think both sides of the House would be united...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1186 (Link to this contribution) If that were the proposition, we would be happy to debate it and consider it, and perhaps work with ...

Guy Opperman | 523 c1186 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman mentioned ““a period of time””. How long would that be?

Speaker | 523 c1186 (Link to this contribution) Order. All hon. Members are doing this, not just the hon. Gentleman. When addressing the shadow Mini...

Guy Opperman | 523 c1186 (Link to this contribution) When answering the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Poole (Mr Syms), you said you wou...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1187 (Link to this contribution) Well, the Secretary of State has shifted back a little way towards the Minister by suggesting that t...

Iain Duncan Smith | 523 c1187 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman may have failed to understand my point. The Opposition are not in governmen...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1186 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State is putting a different gloss on this from the one that the Pensions Minister ...

Iain Duncan Smith | 523 c1186 (Link to this contribution) I had not planned to intervene, but I wanted to tease out the right hon. Gentleman's meaning. He is ...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1188 (Link to this contribution) In opening the debate the Minister accepted that in 15 years out of 20, CPI uprating is less than RP...

Jane Ellison | 523 c1185 (Link to this contribution) Does that mean that in the Labour manifesto for the next general election, the Labour party will com...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1185 (Link to this contribution) There is a persuasive case for making a change to CPI uprating for a period of time while we are tac...

Rehman Chishti | 523 c1184 (Link to this contribution) The shadow Minister talks about unemployment and the previous Government's actions. Is that why my c...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1184 (Link to this contribution) I was indeed a Treasury Minister—on four separate occasions. We managed the global economic crisis w...

Robert Syms | 523 c1185 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully to the right hon. Gentleman. Can we be clear about the Labour party's posit...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1184-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman about the damaging impact of youth unemployment, and I hope that he ...

Mike Freer | 523 c1183 (Link to this contribution) The problem is that for public sector pensions, the fund can meet only 75% or 80% of future liabilit...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1183 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes an interesting argument. I have to say, however, that before the election I did ...

Rehman Chishti | 523 c1184 (Link to this contribution) Am I right in thinking that the shadow Minister was a Treasury Minister in the previous Government? ...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1183-4 (Link to this contribution) My point is that people who have been contributing to those schemes throughout their working lives h...

Jane Ellison | 523 c1183 (Link to this contribution) In part, Government Members are talking about addressing the much longer term problems that this cou...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1183 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady, because that is exactly the point that I have been making. If this w...

Jane Ellison | 523 c1183 (Link to this contribution) We are weeks away from the point when the Opposition, had they won the election, would have commence...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1182-3 (Link to this contribution) I was familiar with the call often made when I was in the Minister's office to release occupational ...

Mike Freer | 523 c1182 (Link to this contribution) If the right hon. Gentleman looks at the local authority pension schemes here in London, he will see...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1181-2 (Link to this contribution) It is a happy coincidence that we are debating the order on the same day as the publication of the W...

Steve Webb | 523 c1181 (Link to this contribution) No. This is the first set of upratings to which we have applied the triple lock. Indeed, we have gon...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1181 (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that the order enshrines the earnings link. Is there a reference in the text to ea...

Steve Webb | 523 c1180-1 (Link to this contribution) Just to be clear, my right hon. Friend the Chancellor was talking about the CPI indexation of all so...

Steve Webb | 523 c1195 (Link to this contribution) For the avoidance of doubt—this has been said incorrectly twice in the debate—the CPI includes rent,...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1189-90 (Link to this contribution) On a number of occasions during the debate I have made the point that there is a case for temporary ...

Stephen Timms | 523 c1185-6 (Link to this contribution) The whole country eagerly awaits the next Labour party manifesto, but I must urge the hon. Lady to b...

Hywel Williams | 523 c1192 (Link to this contribution) I am unconcerned about it being too generous. When the ratcheting effect was considered in the '80s,...

Subjects

Index linking Workplace pensions Social security benefits State retirement pensions Uprating Consumer prices index Average earnings

Legislation

Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2011

Social Security Benefits and Up-rating Order 2011

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk