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Immigration, Asylum and Nationality Bill

My Lords, I begin with the noble Lord, Lord Hylton, and the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay. I stand by everything that I said in Committee and reiterate it. That will be done on a case-by-case basis. It is clear to all of us that if there is compulsion or coercion, we are not dealing with a terrorist. In the case of child soldiers, that could not be clearer. I hope that noble Lords will take that as an absolute certainty—the Government will look very carefully, case by case. Where a child has been coerced by any means, they could not conceivably be a terrorist and we will act on that basis. I want to be as clear as I possibly can on that. I am very grateful to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord for raising what is an important issue in that context. The purpose of my amendment was to try to bring together what we saw as two bits of legislation that were rubbing along each other in an inappropriate way. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, is concerned that the Government’s amendment slightly expands what is in Section 33 of the 2001 Act. We seek through the amendment to ensure that there is a certification procedure for appeals involving all exclusion cases. We are trying to ensure proper safeguards in all such cases and, in a sense, to try to tidy up the statute book. That is not quite consolidation in the way that the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, seeks, which we have already addressed during the passage of the Bill, but we are trying to tidy it up. On the particular question raised by the noble Lord—that the UNHCR’s paper suggested that it appears that only those who have been in power in a state or a state-like entity, for argument’s sake, are capable of committing such acts—it is clear that in the case of KK v Immigration Appeals Tribunal, that was rejected. The tribunal stated:"““owing at least partly to the growth of terrorist activity, it is now accepted by almost everybody that the meaning of Article 1F(c) is not so confined . . . we are perfectly content to hold that a private individual may be guilty of an act contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations, and we see no difficulty in reading the words in this way . . . we should have some difficulty in confining 1(F)(c) to individuals who control States””." That is a clear indication of how we have sought to address questions about Clause 52, interpretation and the dialogue that we have with UNHCR in London. That dialogue continues. We seek to ensure that it is fully aware of what we seek to do and why, but there are areas in which we have a fundamentally different view. I cite that as an example where we have looked carefully to interpret who is covered. I do not really know what else I can say to the noble Lord, Lord Dholakia. We disagree. It said in my briefing that there should be part of our proposals that the Liberal Democrats, in particular, would like—not least the removal of the judicial ouster, which I thought would be dear to the noble Lord’s heart, but it is clearly not dear enough. The purpose of this group of amendments is to try to make the legislation work more effectively. I hope that, reflecting on that, the noble Lord will be able to withdraw his amendment.