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Northern Ireland (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill

Yes, I find it rather odd, which is all I need to say on that point. It does seem to be contradictory. The hon. Member for South Down (Mr. McGrady) spoke about the difficulty of fund-raising for political purposes in Northern Ireland, which was agreed by most Members who spoke. My hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire (Sir Patrick Cormack) expressed concern about the Secretary of State having power to set the election date. He was also concerned about devolving police powers while not all parties support the police. That point was also raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury. It is not just a matter of joining police boards; it is about hearts and minds and providing evidence to the police when crimes have taken place. That has not been the case; we are far from that position and it is a concern. The right hon. Member for North Antrim (Rev. Ian Paisley), in a typically passionate speech, talked about people connected to terrorism not being allowed to sit on police boards or in government. He said that it is odd to be debating things that will not come about. In other words, we will need the Assembly to be up and running before the devolution of policing. It seems an odd situation for us to be in. If I am quoting him correctly, the hon. Member for Blaydon (Mr. Anderson) was probably calling for the nationalisation of the energy industry. He is not objecting to my paraphrase of his words. I cannot say that I agree with him on that point. He also strongly made the point that nobody should be a terrorist and a democratic politician. He was very clear that people have to make up their minds. They have to become democratic politicians and give up terrorism for good. He sounded an optimistic note, but I am not sure that it was entirely shared by the House. The hon. Member for Belfast, North (Mr. Dodds) made a reasonable and wide-ranging speech. He endorsed calls for all parties to support the police and called for people to give up private armies. He questioned the need for them. He also raised an interesting point regarding donations. He said that whether donations coming from the Republic are legal will depend on Irish law, not our own. That seems to be a strange situation, especially when, as I understand it, money could come from America if it comes through the right channels. I do not think that is in the spirit of the laws that have been passed by this Parliament. There is a legal issue there, and possibly a constitutional one, and it needs to be discussed. The hon. Member for Belfast, South (Dr. McDonnell) welcomed moved towards a bigger energy market and said that he would welcome a British Isles market. He called for an increase in the use of renewable energy. There is a point about the energy market. As I understand it, there will not be one regulator for north and south, but there will still be one regulator in the north and one in the south who will attempt to harmonise regulation. We are not moving towards the full position that we have in Great Britain, where we had new electricity trading arrangements that have since changed to BETTA—the British electricity trading and transition arrangements—and there is an internal competitive market that supplies electricity. We are not moving towards such an arrangement because of the need for transparency in Northern Ireland and because the market, even with the south, will not be big enough. It would be advantageous for people in Northern Ireland and southern Ireland if we had that bigger market and a better trading arrangement. We would then see prices fall, just as they fell in Great Britain when that system was introduced here by the Government. This is a complicated area, and I hope that I have expressed my view on it reasonably clearly. My hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Wyre (Mr. Wallace) stressed the need to remove violence as an option. He spoke about how some people are talking about it as no longer being a first option, but a final option. That cannot be right either. That is equally wrong. My hon. Friend also discussed the need to extend the arms amnesty, which the Government say is necessary to take into account paramilitary weapons on the loyalist side. However, we can equally say that there is a need for the amnesty to include the remaining weapons on the republican side; many Members expressed the view that the republican movement has not yet got rid of all its arms. The hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson), in a long but entertaining speech, covered many issues. One of the most interesting was whether it would be possible to get the devolution of policing through when there was a 40 per cent. Unionist vote in the Assembly. I look forward to the Minister’s response. The hon. Gentleman bravely questioned the basis for the agreement in relation to cross-community support. Obviously, the whole agreement is about bringing people from the different communities together, yet that is one of the things that is holding up the process. When the issue of South Africa was raised, the hon. Member for Belfast, North said that it was not relevant, yet in a sense it is, because for South Africa to move on, people had to stop talking about their particular national identity. Rwanda moved on when people stopped saying that they were members of a particular tribe. However, in Northern Ireland we have, I regret, institutionalised sectarianism, and 50:50 police recruitment offers an example. Several Members said that they disapproved of that recruitment policy. The hon. Member for North Down referred to the issue and spoke movingly about murders committed by loyalist gangs, which are completely unacceptable. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury, I condemn violence from whichever side it comes. It must end; there is no reason or excuse for it. The hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Donaldson) has been consistent for many years in his opposition to sharing government with people linked to terrorist organisations, but he told us passionately how much he wants the Assembly to be up and running, so that it can deal with many of the issues that are dealt with in the House. He, too, spoke against 50:50 recruitment. I am concerned about the falling number of police reservists, and about the fact that it seems that they will be replaced by community support officers. The Bill does not include such provisions, but the policy causes great concern in Northern Ireland so the Government may want to address it. The hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) spoke of the need for safeguards in respect of information gathering when the role of MI5 in Northern Ireland changes. He made the important point that MI5 must be sure to pass on to the police information that the police would regard as helpful. There were reports in the Northern Ireland press recently about one serious occasion when that had not occurred. I do not want to explore that point at this stage, but the issue is real. The hon. Member for South Antrim (Dr. McCrea) suffered, as I have suffered many times in the House, by speaking right at the end of a long debate. He was able to speak only for about two minutes, so although he is always worth listening to, on this occasion we were not allowed that luxury for very long. As my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury said, we shall not divide the House tonight, but there are several issues that we want to examine in Committee, and I am glad that some of the Committee stage will be taken on the Floor. We want to consider whether the electoral office changes could be slightly better made. Police and justice devolution is a big issue and we also want to discuss the funding of political parties. I want to explore whether more could be done to help to reduce the cost of energy in Northern Ireland and whether renewable energy can be brought in more quickly, because it is being adopted extremely slowly throughout Great Britain. We give the Bill a cautious welcome and look forward to further discussion of it, and indeed to the Minister’s response to the debate.