---

National Security

My Lords, that is exactly right. He also said that I should repeat what he said at 9.43 this morning, which is actually his view. When asked, ““Are you convinced of the need for more than 28 days’ detention””, my noble friend said: "““Yes, I am personally convinced there is, but I think what we’ve got to make sure is we’ve got all the evidence there to show people and … we have to balance civil liberties””." That is my noble friend's position, and my noble friend will, I know, be nodding in agreement with that. What the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, said about the concerns being deep and fundamental is absolutely right. However, when looking at such deep and fundamental questions, one of the issues we have to address is the need to reach consensus in building on the expertise and experience in your Lordships' House and in another place. It is not about fitting-up the Tories and the Liberal Democrats—an interesting parliamentary phrase—nor about taking away what the noble Lord, Lord McNally, described as the Opposition’s role to oppose. It is about using the robustness of those positions to ensure that, when we reach decisions where we can, we can reach a consensus on protecting the people of this country. I was not going to quote the noble Lord, Lord Carlile—though I think that he should achieve sainthood on the Liberal Democrat Benches for the work that he does. Part of the reason why I would quote him is because he is a man of great independent thought. I know that he is highly valued by the noble Lord, Lord McNally, by the Liberal Democrats and by your Lordships' House. I pay tribute to the work that he has done. He does not say what he does not mean, and he does not say what he believes the Government wish to hear. Therefore, when he speaks on these issues, we listen, and it is right and proper that we should. The noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, asked about the borders agency and the role of the police within it. There was a review, as the noble Lord will know, and we found that there were strong arguments in favour of a consolidated police border force but there were also strong arguments against. The key people that we talked to were divided on what they thought should happen. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary is leading further work into that. The Association of Chief Police Officers is very pleased about that. We are making sure that the police work collaboratively. A senior police officer will be on the executive board; there will be better operational co-operation; a single lead official at ports and airports responsible for liaising with the police, drawing on the skills of the police, their expertise in training officers, and working jointly to look at controls at smaller ports and airports. My right honourable friend will come back when she has considered further how we might work closer together, so it is an issue that we take very seriously. The noble Lord also asked about disruption to the public’s travel. Indeed, my right honourable friend was at pains to set out in the Statement that we want to make sure that disruption is minimal while also recognising that there are safety issues. Members of the Conservative Party asked what we would do within the Charities Bill and beyond to look at issues that are reasonably raised about extremism and the use of charities. That will be done properly and partly at the behest of noble Lords opposite. We will make sure that it does not create the unnecessary burdens that the noble Lord fears. On asset freezing, my children take money out of bank accounts, not put it in, but that is an interesting thought; that is teenagers. But it is important that we do this in a proper and measured way, as the noble Lord says. I take those points on board and I am sure that will be part of it. As regards the individual that the noble Lord mentioned, I believe that my right honourable friend said to the right honourable Leader of the Opposition that he would write to him about individuals. I am sure that that letter will be copied to your Lordships' House and to the Lord, Lord Strathclyde. I shall ensure that that happens. The relevant Bill will take account of the work of the privy counsellors who are reviewing intercept evidence and will allow that to happen, as I understand it. As regards interfaith issues and the questions raised about Christian, Jewish and other communities, the point about interfaith is to enable those collaborative approaches to take place. But as the noble Lord, Lord McNally, said, Muslim citizens are potentially the greatest victims of this terrorism. Therefore, we have to make sure that we are talking properly with Muslim communities right across the country. Finally, I relate an anecdote from my time as an education Minister. After 9/11, I spent a day sitting in a Muslim girls’ school. The girls were terrified of going to school because of the way people treated them on the way to school. That treatment resulted from ignorance but none the less it had a huge impact on those young girls and was very distressing to witness. We have to make sure that we help and support the Muslim community who are critical to the success of what we are seeking to do. I take nothing away from what the noble Lord said but I put the emphasis in that direction.