---

Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

My Lords, I put my name to Amendment No. 101 with real commitment and not as a formality. I have said in the House before that when I served on the Joint Committee on Human Rights I almost always found myself sitting next to the noble Earl. I was glad to do so, because I came to respect his passionate commitment to the liberty of the individual and its deep roots in the struggle for the social and legal evolution of our nation that has made it what it is. I have listened with some dismay to earlier debates this evening, and certainly on the last amendment I could not bring myself to vote. Having said that, I emphasise that there is a real anxiety that whatever the intentions of the Government, we are seeing the erosion—almost an incremental dismantling—of the very principles on which our system of justice has always been based. The noble Earl is absolutely right that no too-high premium can be placed on the liberty of the individual. Furthermore, I have always understood that there was a presumption of innocence that was absolutely basic to our legal system and that if anyone was to be deprived of liberty, the onus of responsibility for so doing was on the prosecution. Interfering with the liberty of the subject to the extent envisaged in these provisions is unthinkable. As a young politician three or four decades ago, I would never have believed that this House would be seriously considering moving quite deliberately to administrative law and deserting the whole basis of our system. We used to criticise other countries for having adopted systems of administrative law, and we held our system up as the model for the world. I have been containing myself this evening, but I have reached the point at which I have to say that I am deeply troubled by what is happening. The noble Earl has said that it is a good thing that the Government have moved as far as they have. Like him, I am glad that they have felt able to do so. But he is absolutely right that it does not deal with the underlying strategic issue that confronts us. The other point is that in this rush—it is becoming a rush—for the dismantling of law as we have always understood it, we are beginning to make a complete muddle for the lay man as to what is criminal and what is civil. What happens to the whole concept of civil law if we are to say that violence can, when it is convenient, be treated as civil law as distinct from criminal law? The rational, common-sense differences are just being brushed aside. The noble Earl has said that he is not going to press his amendment tonight, and he is wise not to do so. I, for one, greatly appreciated what he said and the passion with which he said it. I am really concerned that history will come to see the processes in which we are currently involved as a major selling of the pass in all that we have understood to be justice in this country.