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Criminal Justice and Immigration Bill

My Lords, I imagined that after an hour’s respite we might perhaps have moved on a bit more in the argumentation that is brought before your Lordships’ House. I moved a modest amendment, which helps to address a central concern of noble Lords opposite and in particular an issue raised by the noble Earl, Lord Onslow. Then we have been subjected to a discourse on two centuries of political history in the United Kingdom, all over a matter relating to the way in which violent offender orders might be considered in a civil court and in front of a magistrate. We have been regaled with how authoritarian and draconian these measures are. I think that noble Lords opposite miss an essential point. It is true that over the past decade or so we have adopted a rather different approach in dealing with social nuisance, anti-social behaviour and episodes of low-level unpleasantness in our communities. Our Government have adopted a consistent programme and approach but at almost every step the Liberal Democrats have been consistent in opposing it. They do not like our use of civil procedures in trying to affect and influence the behaviour of individuals who, even they would probably agree, have been dysfunctional and unpleasant in a community setting and in trying to deal with particular individuals within a community. I am entirely at one with noble Lords opposite in their determination to see that we properly protect civil liberties and people’s individual rights in this country. This Government have an enviable record of so doing. I wish to make a further point regarding one of the damaging aspects of the argumentation that is sometimes, although not always, used against the Government’s position. By raising the threshold of the argumentation in the way in which some noble Lords do, they devalue the greater argument. That is a very real and current danger, and it is not a good way in which to argue a case that has some merit. We are not trying to get round the criminal law or the use of the criminal law—far from it. We are trying to prevent the commission of criminal acts by individuals who, for one reason or another, exhibit behaviour which I think we all agree is unacceptable. We are not trying to undermine civil liberties and civil rights in so doing. We have absolutely protected the right for there to be a contest of evidence in the civil arena. It is right and proper that we seek to protect that, and of course it is right that evidence will be subject to cross-examination. There will be the opportunity for an adversarial and interactive process of discussion about evidence. There is an element of risk management here but I think that it is risk management of the right sort. It is to prevent the unpleasant crimes that can happen in our communities and protect individuals. That is the merit of violent offender orders, and that is why we cannot accept the amendment in the name of the noble Earl, Lord Onslow. However, we have moved some way to bring in protections and I am grateful to noble Lords who have at least given the Government credit for doing that. On Question, amendment agreed to. [Amendments Nos. 100 and 101 not moved.]