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Energy Bill

The noble Lord has made a number of important points. Energy efficiency is probably the most positive thing of all that one can do; he is absolutely right on that. I have several reservations. First, if the amendment as it stands were accepted, what would it cost? Goodness knows. It is a very ambitious amendment. I do not know how realistic it is, but it aims in the right direction. I have one specific point that applies to the United Kingdom, particularly those areas that have the greatest temperature variations—the parts that are coldest and dampest in the winter. I do not know whether that is just north of the border; it probably applies to Wales as well. If you insulate old houses very well, you can get the most appalling condensation and damage. You cannot talk about insulation in a general way. That applies not only to large houses but particularly to small cottages. I have experience of that, and you have to be very careful about it. The noble Lord has put exceptions to his great idea under proposed new subsection (4): "““Buildings may be excluded on grounds including … their historic status … excessive costs of insulation … their short remaining life””." Those are sensible exceptions. It is not practical for many old buildings, where you need to have a draught and a bit of circulation of the air. You do not need windows that are completely sealed. It is striking that for the cold countries of Europe, where the temperature drops and stays low all winter, such as Austria and Germany, total insulation is the correct thing to do, however old the house. You do not have the humidity or changes in temperature. It is an important point for us in this country to consider when talking about insulation. Local authorities probably know that very well in local areas, particularly where the temperatures very much vary. Just as with roads, we have to allow for changing temperatures in this country, and we treat them in winter quite differently to the approach in central Europe, and that applies to housing.