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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Tuesday, 1 July 2008, in the House of Lords.

Energy Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
703 c1-60GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Energy Bill. As amended in Grand Committee.
Tuesday, 1 July 2008
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Teverson | 703 c52GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Puttnam, for tabling the amendment, to which I was pleased to be a sign...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c49GC (Link to this contribution) Just before the noble Lord withdraws the amendment, I have a note to confirm for the noble Baroness ...
Show all contributions (101)
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c49GC (Link to this contribution) All issues with regard to the construction of new lines are of consideration. That has all got to be...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c48-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for this amendment, which gives us a chance to air an important topi...
Lord Teverson | 703 c44GC (Link to this contribution) In order to put this in context and understand the scale of the issue, do the Government have an est...
Lord Bach | 703 c40-1GC (Link to this contribution) I look forward very much to meeting the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, for further discussions on this sub...
Baroness Wilcox | 703 c39-40GC (Link to this contribution) I am very pleased that my noble friend Lord Jenkin has tabled the amendment, which poses an interest...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c31GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has anticipated almost everything that I have to say; I am going to ask him to withdr...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c12GC (Link to this contribution) I had anticipated that the noble Baroness might rise and be cross, so I was very eager to try to ass...
Lord Oxburgh | 703 c17GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment, primarily for the reason I gave at Second Reading that I feel that on...
Lord Bach | 703 c53-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for his patience in sitting through this afternoon’s events and for the way ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c50GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 91 agreed to.
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c49GC (Link to this contribution) I would not have expected the noble Lord to say more than he did, and I was grateful for what he did...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 703 c45GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps unkindly, I cannot help thinking that a large part of the Minister’s speech was strongly aga...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c46-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 76: 76: After Clause 90, insert the following new Clause— ““Duty to protect pu...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c29-30GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords. I usually express gratitude at this point for the contribution of my n...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c27-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 70: 70: Clause 81, page 74, line 24, at end insert— ““( ) Where the Secretary ...
Lord Bach | 703 c27GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that my response did not indicate that we were absolutely satisfied about the legal position....
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 703 c28-9GC (Link to this contribution) I almost have some sympathy with this amendment. We have to guard against overselling smart meters, ...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 703 c26-7GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps not today, but before we return to the topic, will my noble friend try to find out what the ...
Lord Bach | 703 c27GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. As always, his suggestion is very helpful. I will write to him and...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c21-3GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is right. He will forgive me if I do not try to reply to the debate by listing the po...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c23GC (Link to this contribution) : From all the discussions I have had with officials, I think that that is somewhat unlikely. Some o...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c23-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 68A: 68A: Clause 81, page 74, line 24, at end insert— ““( ) provision requirin...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 703 c36GC (Link to this contribution) I shall rest on my noble friend’s words—that in relation to compromise there may be room. Like Camem...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c30GC (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the amendment was to get the response the Minister made, because one of the problems ...
Lord Haskel | 703 c30GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee will adjourn for 10 minutes. [The Sitting was suspended from 5.37 to 5.47 pm.]
Lord Redesdale | 703 c31GC (Link to this contribution) I expected that response and, on that basis, I withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdra...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c4-5GC (Link to this contribution) This amendment strikes me as pretty ambitious, if I may put it in that way. One should bear in mind ...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 703 c3-4GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has made a number of important points. Energy efficiency is probably the most positiv...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c10-1GC (Link to this contribution) We on this side of the Committee support the sentiment of the amendment. Why are the Government keen...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c11GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should have said ““the draft directives””; I accept that.
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 703 c14GC (Link to this contribution) I am a little surprised by the promotion of both of these amendments. From what the two opposition p...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c15GC (Link to this contribution) All sides of the House have been lobbied on this by the major retailers and suppliers. They cannot d...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c16-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am perfectly happy to leave my water meter where it can be read by the people who come in. Whether...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c18-9GC (Link to this contribution) I take on board what the Minister is saying about the commitment. That commitment was given, but it ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c17-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken on this important issue. We recognise that the Gove...
Lord Bach | 703 c60GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 78: 78: Schedule 5, page 139, line 6, at end insert— On Question, amendment a...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c53GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, is in agreement with me as well as with the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, ...
Lord Puttnam | 703 c50-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 76A: 76A: After Clause 91, insert the following new Clause— ““Adaptation of ro...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 703 c57GC (Link to this contribution) I tried to follow that argument as carefully as I could. The noble Lord said that the Secretary of S...
Lord Bach | 703 c44-5GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can come back to that point before I sit down. The Pensions Bill amendment is an importan...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c45GC (Link to this contribution) First, I thank everybody who has taken part in this. Secondly, in the light of the position that the...
Lord Palmer | 703 c41GC (Link to this contribution) I did not mean to be offensive in the slightest. Because of the horrible escalation of fuel prices, ...
Lord Bach | 703 c41-4GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord was not being offensive. I have never known him to be offensive and I am sure he neve...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c27GC (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the amendment was to bring up the issues, and the Minister has said that he will look...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c27GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord withdraws the amendment, I have a question for the Minister. The people who I ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c28GC (Link to this contribution) There is something to be said for the case made by the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale. Perhaps I can com...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c23GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said ““later this year””. Does he have a timeframe for that? We will be in the autumn b...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c36-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 75: 75: After Clause 89, insert the following new Clause— ““Power to amend lic...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 703 c34GC (Link to this contribution) On the face of it, I like this amendment very much. It does a minimal amount in assisting the proces...
Lord Palmer | 703 c34GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, made a particularly good point...
Lord Bach | 703 c5-8GC (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on drafting this very interesting amendment. In many w...
Lord Palmer | 703 c4GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, made many extremely good points. One or two things about the amendmen...
Viscount Ullswater | 703 c1GC (Link to this contribution) If there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, this Committee will adjourn as soon as t...
Lord Teverson | 703 c1-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 63C: 63C: Before Clause 80, insert the following new Clause— ““Domestic energy...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c9-10GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 67: 67: Clause 80, page 73, line 17, leave out subsection (3) The noble Lord ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c12GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister was extremely kind. He said that he would take this away again and look at it. I could ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c11-2GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. The noble Lord will recall that we spent many long hours on the passage of the Energy Bill 2004...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 703 c12GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my noble friend—but not only him—will be cheered. This is a great relief. The Governm...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 703 c14-5GC (Link to this contribution) I would like to finish the point. If the noble Lord wanted to make an adequate speech, he had the ch...
Lord De Mauley | 703 c13-4GC (Link to this contribution) I wish to speak to Amendment No. 69. The virtues of smart meters were well explained by the Minister...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c16GC (Link to this contribution) It may be some time since the noble Lord, Lord O’Neill of Clackmannan, was in opposition, but he del...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 703 c15-6GC (Link to this contribution) I still come back to the point that I made earlier: noble Lords may have been lobbied, but they shou...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c19GC (Link to this contribution) Five years is not a constraint; it is a period within which action will be taken. I am indicating to...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c20GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness must accept that if I have a little difficulty in accepting my noble friend’s hyp...
Lord Bach | 703 c57GC (Link to this contribution) No question from the noble Baroness is stupid, and that one certainly is not. I will be very careful...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 703 c58GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, but I am referring to the ownership.
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c52-3GC (Link to this contribution) I never thought that I would agree with the noble Lord, Lord Redesdale, as much as I just have. We m...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 703 c49GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister say whether the anxieties are being at all reflected in the many inquiries that are...
Lord Oxburgh | 703 c29GC (Link to this contribution) The relevance of smart meters to fuel poverty is the alerting of the supply company to the fact that...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c29GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord acquires some grandchildren, he will find that they are the people who can really ...
Lord Bach | 703 c25-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for his amendment, which touches on what I agree are two important a...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c21GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister makes a reasoned case. However, we are not just talking about the costs to the consumer...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c23GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response—but maybe I should qualify that, because I thought that smart ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c24-5GC (Link to this contribution) I certainly see the case for the first paragraph of the amendment. There is clearly an anomaly. As t...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c35GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend presses me with too much precision and detail for me to commit myself on my feet in ...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c35GC (Link to this contribution) We shall be leaving the issue of smart metering soon. I was interested to hear the Minister say that...
Lord Teverson | 703 c40GC (Link to this contribution) There is a very good case for the amendment. Clearly, the area that we are all concerned about is in...
Lord Palmer | 703 c40GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, wholeheartedly support this amendment. In my small contribution at Second Reading, I devoted...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c35-6GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has a narrower concept than the Government of where costs lie. To place them on the m...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 703 c35GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend will know that his words will be pored over by elected Members in the other place. H...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 703 c31-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 74A: 74A: After Clause 83, insert the following new Clause— ““Smart meters: in...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c34-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who spoke to the amendment and to my noble friend for introducing i...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c30-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 71: 71: Clause 81, page 74, line 26, leave out first ““different”” The noble ...
Lord Jenkin of Roding | 703 c8GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, responds, perhaps I can ask the Minister a question. He referr...
Lord Teverson | 703 c8-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply and other noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. This i...
Lord Bach | 703 c8GC (Link to this contribution) We agree with the noble Lord. I am advised that the consultations will include information on the co...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c11GC (Link to this contribution) I can be reasonably brief. First, the response to the last question is exactly as the noble Lord sug...
Lord Redesdale | 703 c12-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 68: 68: Clause 81, page 74, line 23, after ““date”” insert ““that is no later ...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 703 c16GC (Link to this contribution) I am told that they even do water as well. The problem is that it is too complicated. Too many thing...
Lord Teverson | 703 c17GC (Link to this contribution) The prepayment issue in Northern Ireland has been largely solved with regard to the excess charged t...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 703 c19GC (Link to this contribution) There might be a counterargument that if the cost falls to the consumer, they might well reduce cons...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 703 c19-20GC (Link to this contribution) Of course. We hope that full analysis proves that that is so, so that substantial sums of investment...
Lord Teverson | 703 c20GC (Link to this contribution) Page 286 of the Minister’s own White Paper has a marginal abatement cost curve, which specifically p...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 703 c20GC (Link to this contribution) Has it occurred to the Government that there will be a different view from consumers as the high cos...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 703 c57GC (Link to this contribution) It is just a point of clarification. The Committee will be familiar with the European law in relatio...
Lord Bach | 703 c59-60GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 77: 77: Clause 94, page 82, line 41, at end insert— ““( ) section 13 (importat...
Lord Puttnam | 703 c58-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank everyone who has been involved in this brief debate, particularly—I sincerely mean this—the ...
Lord Bach | 703 c58GC (Link to this contribution) I am advised that what I have said would apply to companies that operate in the United Kingdom. I wi...
Subjects
Disclosure of information Data protection Disadvantaged Costs Conservation Buildings Billing Housing Licensing Health hazards EU law Energy Electricity Fuel poverty Electric cables Natural gas Mergers Meters Standards Technology Takeovers Carbon emissions Social tariffs
Legislation
Energy Bill 2007-08
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk