---

Planning Bill

moved Amendment No. 16: 16: Clause 209, page 121, line 27, leave out paragraph (b) The noble Lord said: My Lords, we now come to the subject of charities, linked with the word ““clarity””. Before I move on to the substance of the amendments tabled in my name, I express my gratitude to the Minister for her exemplary dealings with Members of the House, not only in the written word but in meetings. Since we last discussed this Bill, I have received 29 pages from the Minister and we have had a couple of meetings. That is a good way of doing business. I hope to return here tomorrow to talk about the Dormant Bank and Building Society Accounts Bill, which has been dormant now for 10 months. I have not had as much as a picture postcard from Her Majesty’s Treasury, but that is another matter. In moving Amendment No. 16, I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 18, 20 and 24. There are three deletions and one addition. I bear in mind what the noble Lord, Lord Dixon-Smith, said earlier about this being Third Reading, so I will not go into great detail about the splendour of the charitable sector, save to say this. Unlike the state or local government, the charitable sector seems able to get round it. The charitable sector has supporters’ clubs of serious magnitude in the people who are prepared to back it. Not only that, but the charitable sector finds itself, from time to time, the repository for gifts, whether of shares, cash or, indeed, land. Therefore, it is a sector in which people have great confidence. Amendment No. 16 would move towards greater clarity. The deletions would leave us with regulations that provide for exemptions from CIL, for persons who would otherwise be liable, where the development is a relevant charity. If one deleted the items that, in my view, should come out, CIL would not apply when the charity wanted to develop for its own purposes or if it wanted to develop and recycle the proceeds for its own charitable purposes. Amendment No. 24 would give that opportunity to areas that may not yet be seen as charitable or be classed as charities under the Charities Act, such as community enterprises or community sports clubs. With these changes, it would be clear that charities were exempt and that there were opportunities for work that is seen by many members of the public as similar to charitable work to be exempt or, in certain circumstances and depending on the regulations, to have some degree of reduction. I do not want to be bobbing up and down, so I shall speak also to the other amendments in this group. The effect of the amendments tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Cameron and Lord Hodgson, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham is similar to that of my amendments. Deleting ““may”” and inserting ““must”” and changing subsection (3) would be very helpful. If it comes to the point, I will be happy to support them. Amendments Nos. 22 and 23, tabled by the Minister, change subsection (3). The language is strange, but I believe that it is meant to clarify. Regardless of what happens to my amendments and those tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, it will be important for the Minister to talk about clarity. I know that she will want to speak about the improper use of a charity. I do not believe that any noble Lord would want to see charities used in an improper way. Any regulations will need to take care of anybody who is up to no good and is trying to use a charity in an improper way. The Minister will also want to speak about state aid, although I am far from clear whether that is real or imagined. If today two charities are each given £10 million, the first in stocks and shares and the second in land, and in five years’ time they sell, for the first there will be no capital gains tax and for the second, with today’s law, there will be no CIL. Yet there is the prospect of CIL. It is important to be clear about where we are on that. It is particularly important that the Minister sets out how she sees the position on investment property and whether CIL applies. It will be helpful to hear what the Minister has to say. I beg to move.