---

Postal Services Bill [HL]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, and the Minister for their comments. When dealing with this sort of amendment, one of the problems we face is the trust we have in the words of the Bill as a whole. My noble friend said that the existing provisions give the protection that my amendment seeks to get, and I am directed towards those parts of the Bill that purport to give these rights to the people concerned. I am surprised that the railway scheme was put to one side by my noble friend because the scheme has been abolished. You could have fooled me, because the scheme being proposed here as good as abolishes the Royal Mail pension schemes as they exist at the moment. However, the amendment gives me the chance to ask the Minister for an assurance that every single employee of Royal Mail, from the top to the bottom, will be in the scheme. Alternatively, will there be two separate schemes, one for senior management and one for the rest of the staff? If people move from one status to another, these things have to be clear. I tabled this amendment to look at the question of trust. This has to be spelt out in the Bill because when we say we are going to protect members’ interests, we mean it. As I said when moving the amendment, we want this to be clear, unambiguous and meaningful. We have had some difficult experiences over the years with trustees and the pension fund, with the ownership of the fund and with the rights of the fund members. My suggested new clause would do away with the smoke and mirrors and deal with exact wording. Clearly there is a lot to consider in what the Minister has just said and I will look at the parts of the Bill he referred to. However, I want to know categorically whether we are talking about every member of Royal Mail being part of the same scheme, or whether there will be two schemes so that senior management gets an enhanced scheme over the rest of the staff. Perhaps he could comment on that before I decide what to do with my amendment.