---

Postal Services Bill [HL]

Before I deal with the amendment, I wish to deal with the question that the noble Lord raised about our having difficulty getting information from the trustees and their having been reluctant to provide information. The answer to that is a very clear no. The power that we seek here is to safeguard future information requirements connected with the establishment of the scheme. To date there has been no requirement to exchange detailed information. We have been dealing with aggregate data in looking at the projections and the work that has been done. I would like to explain the purpose of Clause 23. In order to implement the measures set out in Part 2, the Secretary of State will need access to certain information. We would expect such information to be readily provided by the appropriate parties but, should this not be the case, the clause provides a power for the Secretary of State to make an order requiring the provision of that information. The information covered under this power will comprise principally details of the scheme’s assets and the liabilities related to individual members, which are currently held by the RMPP. The Government will require access to that information in order to make orders concerning the transfer of certain liabilities to the new public service scheme under Clause 16 and for the payment of benefits to members by that new scheme; to establish the new section for Post Office employees under Clause 17; to transfer assets from the scheme under Clause 20; and to ensure that any asset transfer order meets the requirements set out in Clause 21. The power to obtain information can be exercised only where it can be demonstrated to be required for the provisions under Part 2. Before it is exercised, there is a further requirement under Clause 24 for consultation with the RMPP trustees. We will be discussing, as part of the ongoing meetings that we are already having with the RMPP trustees, the information requirements. We do not envisage that this power will in practice be used, other than in exceptional circumstances. However, access to the relevant information is important not just for the effective exercise of the powers under Part 2 but in order to safeguard members’ and taxpayers’ interests. The clause therefore provides the necessary powers, should they be needed. The amendment would exclude from the power in Clause 23 any information that is "legally privileged". The meaning of legal privilege is well defined. The British courts have been clear that legal privilege is a fundamental right, which cannot be abrogated by statute unless done so by express words in the statute or as a necessary implication of the words of the statute. The Government have not put in any such wording in relation to this power because they fully recognise the fundamental right of legal privilege and do not intend to encroach on this right. We do not therefore think that this amendment is necessary. I hope that the noble Lord understands our reasons and that he will withdraw it.