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Debate on bill on Wednesday, 5 July 2006, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness Primarolo. The answering member was Theresa Villiers.

Finance (No 2) Bill

Finance (No 2) Bill. Report stage second day.Concluded. Third reading debate. Agreed to on division (287 to 203). Passed.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
448 c839-942 
Session
2005-06
Department
Treasury
Legislative stage
Third reading
Report stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c863 (Link to this contribution) In Committee of the whole House, I made it clear that there were a number of reasons why it was the ...
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c863-4 (Link to this contribution) It may be that the benefit of the scheme was focused on the middle class, IT-literate, higher paid s...
Show all contributions (158)
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c862 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that over a three-year period, £200 million represents about one sixtieth of 1 pe...
Mark Francois | 448 c862-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman must forgive me; I know that he is an accountant by training, but I would not cal...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c864 (Link to this contribution) I shall come to the hon. Lady’s points and, if necessary, give way then. The investment for the gro...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c864 (Link to this contribution) Will the Paymaster General give way?
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c864 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right and I will come to that point. The HMRC also had evidence that the tax exem...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c864 (Link to this contribution) Will the Paymaster General give way?
Mark Francois | 448 c860-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. As he knows, I have quite a lot of time for him. At...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c864 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Lady if she will tell me where she will get the £300 million for the unf...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c865 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief. Although the hon. Member for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) may not approve, I am sure th...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c866 (Link to this contribution) Of course I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, provided that he is succinct.
Mark Francois | 448 c866 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give the hon. Lady an absolute guarantee—that is subject to the Chair. Having heard the Go...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c866 (Link to this contribution) I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman’s last point. I was hoping to intervene on the Paymaster G...
Ed Balls | 448 c870 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 99, in page 181, line 2, at end insert—
Speaker | 448 c870 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments Nos. 16, 100, 17 and 101 to 106.
Ed Balls | 448 c870-1 (Link to this contribution) These amendments cover two similar areas. They deal with changes to the legislation on ““repos””—the...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c865 (Link to this contribution) Is it right that all the money saved from the withdrawal of the scheme will be reinvested in digital...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c865 (Link to this contribution) I have told the hon. Lady the Government’s plans for spending the money. She has a flipping cheek—I ...
Mark Hoban | 448 c853 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for putting on the record his clarification of the important point abo...
Speaker | 448 c854 (Link to this contribution) With this we will take Government amendments Nos. 21, 24, 25, 26, 22 and 23.
Mark Hoban | 448 c852 (Link to this contribution) Does the Economic Secretary require the loss-making company fully to assess the quantity of its loss...
Ed Balls | 448 c852-3 (Link to this contribution) As I have said, the company has a two-year period to make a claim. The issue concerns the date at wh...
Mark Hoban | 448 c851 (Link to this contribution) We debated that point in Standing Committee, where I felt that the Government shared my interpretati...
Ed Balls | 448 c851-2 (Link to this contribution) I hope that I can provide the reassurance sought by the hon. Member for Fareham (Mr. Hoban) and thos...
Rob Marris | 448 c850 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is the accountant, not me, but he may have misread the provision that he seeks to...
Theresa Villiers | 448 c856 (Link to this contribution) Mr. Deputy Speaker, you have been very indulgent, and I am grateful to you and to the House for list...
Speaker | 448 c856 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind the hon. Lady that these are minor technical and drafting amendments? Her remark...
Theresa Villiers | 448 c854-6 (Link to this contribution) I turn first to the Government amendments in this group on taxation of leases—amendments Nos. 21 to ...
Rob Marris | 448 c859 (Link to this contribution) I thought that this was going to be succinct.
Mark Francois | 448 c859 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says from a sedentary position that he thought my comments were going to be succi...
Speaker | 448 c859 (Link to this contribution) Order. I would prefer that we stuck to the proceedings before the House this afternoon.
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c856 (Link to this contribution) We consider these proposals to be minor technical amendments and we do not need to make any detailed...
John Healey | 448 c856-7 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the fact that the hon. Member for Chipping Barnet (Mrs. Villiers) regards these amendments...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c857-8 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 126, page 46, line 29, leave out Clause 61. Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speak...
Mark Francois | 448 c858-9 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the substantive contribution of the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne...
David Leslie Taylor | 448 c860 (Link to this contribution) Having worked in the computing industry for 30 years before coming to this place, I welcomed the ini...
Mark Francois | 448 c859-60 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I shall gladly write to the hon. Gentleman on that matter, either one...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c890 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend the Member for Cambridge (David Howarth) pointed out, there was nothing about thes...
David Howarth | 448 c891 (Link to this contribution) To close this down completely, is the Paymaster General confirming that the fiscal neutrality that s...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c891 (Link to this contribution) I want to deal with the point about the private sector. If the hon. Gentleman can stay in his seat f...
David Howarth | 448 c891 (Link to this contribution) Will the Paymaster General give way?
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c891 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Sections 29 and 30 of the Energy Act 2004 were intended to prevent B...
Rob Marris | 448 c892 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for pointing that out. Of course, the Liberals do not seem to ...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c892 (Link to this contribution) I have a further piece of information that I should have given to the House: I understand that the L...
Rob Marris | 448 c892 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for clearly setting out the position. The situation changed slightly a ...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c892 (Link to this contribution) I am talking about the creation of the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority and the movement from its p...
Speaker | 448 c893 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government amendment No. 29. Amendment N...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c896 (Link to this contribution) I believe that one of the advantages of the American experience, which ties in with something that t...
Mark Francois | 448 c893-6 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to our amendment No. 130, which seeks to allow real estate investment trusts—REITs—t...
Ed Balls | 448 c896 (Link to this contribution) On Friday 2 June, the Financial Times reported that a consortium of 17 housing associations was plan...
Mark Francois | 448 c896 (Link to this contribution) That is an important point. As we said in Committee, we believe that one of the weaknesses of the cu...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c897 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that part of the consideration for residential property companies is the cost of listing, ...
Mark Francois | 448 c896-7 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Economic Secretary for that intervention, but he highlighted the difference himself. He ...
David Gauke | 448 c898 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises a good point when he questions why a UK-resident company would list overseas. ...
Mark Francois | 448 c897-8 (Link to this contribution) Yes. If a company is thinking of listing on the AIM market, it will bear several factors in mind, in...
Ed Balls | 448 c899 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mark Francois | 448 c898-9 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for making that important point. He had considerable experience as a commerci...
Mark Hoban | 448 c872-3 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his explanation of these complex and technical changes. He was right to sug...
Ed Balls | 448 c871-2 (Link to this contribution) I was just coming on to explain how the consultation had affected the initial proposals and how cons...
Mark Hoban | 448 c871 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister explain to the House the principal differences between the draft legislation that ...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c885 (Link to this contribution) The clauses deal with the history of nuclear power stations and with decommissioning today; they do ...
Rob Marris | 448 c884-5 (Link to this contribution) It is part of the process of parliamentary scrutiny, in which we are currently engaged, to try to te...
David Howarth | 448 c884 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one of the difficulties with the two clauses is that nothing appe...
Rob Marris | 448 c883-4 (Link to this contribution) I wanted another run around the block on the UK nuclear industry from a financial point of view. Cla...
Speaker | 448 c883 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 2, in clause 100, page 93, line 40, leave o...
Rob Marris | 448 c883 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No.1, page 92, line 2, leave out clause 99.
Ed Balls | 448 c873-4 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to clarify those three issues. Having spent some time reflecting on these matters in rece...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 448 c885 (Link to this contribution) The Paymaster General said a moment ago, no doubt accurately, that these clauses are about looking b...
Rob Marris | 448 c885 (Link to this contribution) Yes, of course these are in a sense backward-looking clauses, but in the context of a public debate ...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c886 (Link to this contribution) The Minister talked about how, in effect, the clauses look back. Is it not also true that they deal ...
Rob Marris | 448 c885-6 (Link to this contribution) I quite agree, and that is what I am trying to find out. Whether we talk about existing nuclear powe...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 448 c888-90 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. Clause 99 aims to preserve the intended effect of section 29 of the Energy Act 2004, to whi...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 448 c887 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate. As this might be my last chance to contri...
Rob Marris | 448 c886-7 (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, the transitional arrangements came in because the European Commission started ex...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 448 c888 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised that the Minister did not ask me that in Committee. However, the line of inquiry that...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c887 (Link to this contribution) While the hon. Gentleman is reflecting, perhaps he and the hon. Member for Falmouth and Camborne (Ju...
Mark Hoban | 448 c849-50 (Link to this contribution) Both amendments seek to amend the deadline by which group relief claims can be made in regard to los...
Mark Hoban | 448 c849 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 122, page 155, line 21, leave out from second ‘the’ to end of line 22 an...
Speaker | 448 c849 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment No. 15, page 155, line 21, leave out ‘immedia...
Mark Francois | 448 c847 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Lady for her explanation of the timings. She said that the figures cover a ra...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c847-8 (Link to this contribution) I am not in a position to make such a forecast, but the hon. Gentleman will accept that the purpose ...
David Gauke | 448 c845-6 (Link to this contribution) I should like to touch on three issues relating to MTIC fraud. First, in Committee, the Paymaster G...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c846-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall deal quickly with the points made by hon. Members. May I tell the hon. Member for Rayleigh (...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c844-5 (Link to this contribution) If draft regulations are available before the House has given the authority for the powers to be use...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c845 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Paymaster General for that clarification. There is a development beyond the regulations ...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c844 (Link to this contribution) I have only a few brief remarks. We dealt with the matter in some detail in Standing Committee. We a...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c842 (Link to this contribution) The Government update the position on MTIC fraud in every pre-Budget report. The hon. Gentleman’s ob...
Speaker | 448 c841 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman does not have to move the amendment at this stage; we are debating the gro...
Mark Francois | 448 c841 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for your procedural advice, Mr. Deputy Speaker. As the Paymaster General said tha...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c842 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to correct the record: there was a substantial fall in VAT receipts in the 1990s under a ...
Mark Francois | 448 c842 (Link to this contribution) I am not questioning that that occurred; I am saying that in this instance VAT receipts have fallen ...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c840 (Link to this contribution) The affirmative procedure will be necessary. I know that Members, including the hon. Gentleman, full...
John Bercow | 448 c840 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the right hon. Lady for giving way again and for her helpful earlier repl...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c840-1 (Link to this contribution) The regulations are not available at this point. It would be foolish to reveal to the fraudsters, in...
Mark Francois | 448 c841 (Link to this contribution) I am tempted to say thank you and sit down quickly, but there are a few points that need to be made....
John Bercow | 448 c840 (Link to this contribution) As the Paymaster General rightly says, the amendment is widely drawn, and that may be entirely justi...
Speaker | 448 c839 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government amendments Nos. 19 and 20. Ame...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c839-40 (Link to this contribution) Clause 19 provides for a change in the VAT accounting provisions for sales of specific goods to tack...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c839 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move Government amendment No. 18, in page 22, line 6, at beginning insert"‘An order under t...
Stewart Hosie | 448 c920 (Link to this contribution) On the basis of the commitment by the Economic Secretary to an ongoing review and the possibility of...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c929-30 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. I should like to take the opportunity to t...
Speaker | 448 c920 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Member for Dundee, East (Stewart Hosie) wish to press amendment No. 65?
Ed Balls | 448 c918-9 (Link to this contribution) I think I have explained our diagnosis of the 1996 regime. I shall be happy to discuss the history a...
Speaker | 448 c919 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Minister is now going rather wide of the group of amendments that he is addressing.
Ed Balls | 448 c917-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention, which allows me to deal with the broader comments made by the h...
Lord Young of Cookham | 448 c918 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Economic Secretary’s approach. Does he accept, however, that while a conversion charge...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c930 (Link to this contribution) No. It is also important that our tax regime remains relevant in a changing world. The Bill changes...
Theresa Villiers | 448 c930 (Link to this contribution) Will the Paymaster General give way?
Theresa Villiers | 448 c930-3 (Link to this contribution) I shall try to match the Paymaster General for brevity, but I cannot guarantee that I will be quite ...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c933-5 (Link to this contribution) We support certain parts of the Bill, but some of the serious concerns that we expressed on Second R...
Lord Young of Cookham | 448 c935-6 (Link to this contribution) It is 10 years since I last served on the Standing Committee on the Finance Bill, and it will be 10 ...
Stewart Hosie | 448 c936-7 (Link to this contribution) Some of the measures in the Finance Bill are welcome, as was the Government’s willingness on some oc...
David Gauke | 448 c937 (Link to this contribution) Unlike my right hon. Friend the Member for North-West Hampshire (Sir George Young), this was my firs...
Speaker | 448 c910 (Link to this contribution) Order. I will allow the Minister to reply, but I do not want the debate to develop into an Oxford Un...
Ed Balls | 448 c910 (Link to this contribution) I apologise in advance, Madam Deputy Speaker, but does the hon. Gentleman agree that one was disincl...
David Gauke | 448 c910 (Link to this contribution) I certainty do not agree, as my hon. Friend’s speech had comprehensive qualities and was delivered w...
Ed Balls | 448 c909 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend was most unfair to the hon. Gentleman. He made an important point a few moments...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c909 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Lady must be patient. I am reaching my peroration, but not quite yet. The arguments ...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c909 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting interpretation of what I did not say.
David Gauke | 448 c910 (Link to this contribution) Like the Economic Secretary I, too, am a former member of the Oxford University Conservative Associa...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c909-10 (Link to this contribution) I think that I will ignore the hon. Gentleman’s interjection. The hon. Gentleman says that he wrote ...
Mark Francois | 448 c917 (Link to this contribution) If more companies were allowed to list as REITs on the AIM, they would put their property portfolios...
Ed Balls | 448 c917 (Link to this contribution) We are trying to combine those protections with the revenue neutrality that I talked about. On the b...
Philip Dunne | 448 c912-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to disappoint hon. Members who were members of the Standing Committee, so I shall decl...
David Gauke | 448 c911-2 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. I wish to consider whether condition 3, which requires REITs to be listed on a recognised s...
Ed Balls | 448 c914-7 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. We have also discussed, in passing, real estate investment trusts,...
Speaker | 448 c914 (Link to this contribution) That is quite sufficient about student politics. May we return to the debate?
Mark Francois | 448 c914 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that at Oxford he even joined the Liberals, as they would then have been. If...
Ed Balls | 448 c913-4 (Link to this contribution) I have a wide range of speeches and points to respond to. The right hon. Member for North-West Hamps...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c906 (Link to this contribution) Yes, he did. As the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors has said:"““A successful REIT market s...
Colin Breed | 448 c906 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman think that having smaller REITs may enable more local and regionalised funds...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c905 (Link to this contribution) I, too, would like draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Interests. In common with ...
Speaker | 448 c907 (Link to this contribution) Order. I believe that I said that that was sufficient of the quotation, or has the hon. Gentleman co...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c906-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. We discussed in earlier debates how to stimulate housin...
Speaker | 448 c907 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Member should finish with the quotation.
Brooks Newmark | 448 c907-9 (Link to this contribution) To clarify, Madam Deputy Speaker, I was previously talking about my hon. Friend’s analysis of AIM an...
Baroness Primarolo | 448 c909 (Link to this contribution) We have heard the hon. Gentleman recite what his hon. Friends think is important. We have heard him ...
Mark Francois | 448 c899 (Link to this contribution) Certainly. I have a question to ask the Economic Secretary in return.
Ed Balls | 448 c899 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I was studying websites and I found that the shadow Secretary o...
Mark Francois | 448 c899 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Economic Secretary for that intervention, and I have two points to make in reply. First,...
Speaker | 448 c899 (Link to this contribution) Order. I fail to see how this relates to the amendment under discussion.
Mark Francois | 448 c899-900 (Link to this contribution) It does not, of course. But my point is simply to demonstrate to the Economic Secretary that I, too,...
Julia Goldsworthy | 448 c900 (Link to this contribution) I do not intend to rehearse all the arguments that we had on this issue on Second Reading and in Com...
Stewart Hosie | 448 c900-2 (Link to this contribution) I wish to address my remarks to amendments Nos. 64 to 68. The substantive amendment is amendment No....
Lord Young of Cookham | 448 c902-5 (Link to this contribution) I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Rayleigh (Mr. Francois) on his eloquent advocacy of amendmen...
Ed Balls | 448 c905 (Link to this contribution) Is the right hon. Gentleman really saying that the British commercial property sector, which is reno...
Lord Young of Cookham | 448 c905 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly sorry that the Minister has taken so seriously the analogy that I was trying to convey...
Rob Marris | 448 c859 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Gentleman cite where in Committee I spoke for more than two columns of Hansard in any o...
Ed Balls | 448 c919 (Link to this contribution) I shall finish with this conclusion. If one wants to be credible in one’s support for first-time buy...
Stewart Hosie | 448 c917 (Link to this contribution) The Economic Secretary has said a number of times that the Government believe they have got the bala...
Mark Francois | 448 c842-4 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Lady for that reply. She may recall that when we debated this matter in Stand...
Brooks Newmark | 448 c907 (Link to this contribution) Your timing was perfect, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I had just finished the quote. The Governmen...
Subjects
Accountancy Companies Decommissioning British Nuclear Fuels Corporation tax Computers Climate change levy Fraud EU countries Income tax Film Exemptions Excise duties EU internal trade Income Equipment Investment trusts Nuclear Decommissioning Authority Nuclear power stations Property Registration Tax allowances Tax avoidance Taxation VAT Real estate investment trusts
Legislation
Finance (No. 2) Bill 2005-06
Link
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