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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Tuesday, 29 January 2008, in the House of Lords.

Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
698 c275-326GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c305-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for the spirit in which she moved the amendment. I agree that we must do ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c297-301GC (Link to this contribution) I have spoken to the government amendments and indicated previously that we would oppose the amendme...
Show all contributions (86)
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c292GC (Link to this contribution) We oppose the amendments to which the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, has spoken and prefer government Am...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c324GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister answers that point, surely the problem is that the word ““maintenance”” is inter...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c325GC (Link to this contribution) Would the noble Lord mind repeating the question?
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c312-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords for tabling the proposed amendments, each of which I shall address in t...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c284-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, for tabling the amendment, because it was a good place to sta...
Baroness Fookes | 698 c275GC (Link to this contribution) I make the usual statement: if there is a Division in the Chamber, I shall adjourn the Committee imm...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c306-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 8 to 13: 8: Schedule 1, page 47, line 21, leave out ““, who is to be an empl...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c303-4GC (Link to this contribution) Just to make it absolutely clear, as I tried to before: it was one of the issues that caused the cha...
Baroness Verma | 698 c304-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 6: 6: Schedule 1, page 45, line 9, leave out ““one or more”” and insert ““not ...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c303GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister is being generous and I hear myself shouting at him when I do not mean to. I am told th...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c301GC (Link to this contribution) I said that it was one of the key differences. I cited three. There are others that one could cite, ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c302GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend raises an extremely important point. Maintenance arrangements come into play in a va...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c302GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the philosophy of the voluntary system. I am not sure that I entirely share it, but tha...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c296GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is right, there is not very much difference between the original model proposed and w...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c296GC (Link to this contribution) I am not particularly worried about how the CSA is currently organised because it has a shorter life...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c296GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that, but it was always intended that there should be a chairman and a chief executive,...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c293GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 70 is one of the amendments to which the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, has spoken.
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c293GC (Link to this contribution) I know. But the Minister is not moving the amendments at this point; he is only speaking to them.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c293-4GC (Link to this contribution) Let me begin by talking about the important government amendments within this group. As I made clear...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c289GC (Link to this contribution) I think it changes the quality of decisions made. It will also affect some cases going through the c...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c292GC (Link to this contribution) Is not Amendment No. 70 also part of the group?
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c289GC (Link to this contribution) We have many things to discuss and we should move on, but, before we do so, will the noble Lord expl...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c319GC (Link to this contribution) Earlier, I signalled that I was in general agreement with this set of amendments. I most certainly s...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 698 c318GC (Link to this contribution) Forgive me, but I did say specifically that I was referring to either the separation of a couple or ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c326GC (Link to this contribution) I will certainly liaise with my noble friend Lord Adonis and talk to him about this exchange in Comm...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c325GC (Link to this contribution) In that case, will the noble Lord inject strength into the arm of his noble friend and colleague Lor...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c314GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to pursue the point now. Perhaps the Minister will consider all the complications invo...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c314GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity. I shall certainly do so and copy the letter to other noble Lords ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c314GC (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that these matters will be dealt with on an individual case-by-case basis. I can...
Lord Northbourne | 698 c315-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 24: 24: Clause 2, page 1, line 12, at end insert— ““( ) to promote among paren...
Lord Northbourne | 698 c316GC (Link to this contribution) I am working away to find evidence, but, so far, I have none. I suspect that the reason is that the ...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c304GC (Link to this contribution) A net nil. I concede, although I want to study what the Minister said. I am pleased that he has take...
Baroness Verma | 698 c306GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his considerations. It would be useful to probe a little further into the s...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c302-3GC (Link to this contribution) We are all grateful to the Minister; he is generous and helps us in every way he can. However, he ha...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c301GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is quite right; I accept that point. I suggest, however, that what would make the sys...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c296GC (Link to this contribution) We are getting into a bit of a dialogue here. Nothing comes to a grinding halt. The CSA will cease t...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c289-92GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 2: 2: Clause 1, page 1, line 4, leave out ““a body corporate”” and insert ““an...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c288GC (Link to this contribution) I reject the assertion that there will be operational pressure on the commission to reduce the case ...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c288-9GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the management information that would enable us to judge that will be availabl...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c324GC (Link to this contribution) I certainly do not disagree that there should be definitions of responsibility, the engagement of pa...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 698 c323-4GC (Link to this contribution) In the light of Clause 4, which I have not given sufficient attention to—I apologise—the concerns of...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c319-20GC (Link to this contribution) I am reluctant to get involved in this legal argument that is raging over my head. Australians have ...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c318-9GC (Link to this contribution) I accept that, but the point is that most of the children whom the agency will be working with will ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c325GC (Link to this contribution) I asked the Minister whether he would add to the consideration, because surely there will be interco...
Lord Northbourne | 698 c326GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful; I think that the Committee has probably had enough of that one. I am very happy ...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 698 c314GC (Link to this contribution) There is a Division in the Chamber so we shall suspend the Sitting for 10 minutes. [The Sitting was...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c314GC (Link to this contribution) When we broke off I was yet again quizzing the Minister. I am tempted to say ““teasing”” but it was ...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c314GC (Link to this contribution) I am happy to withdraw the lead amendment in this group, but perhaps the Minister can clarify one th...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c315GC (Link to this contribution) On that basis I am happy to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c318GC (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to intervene in an issue where views are strongly held. I suspect that all of us want to ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c287-8GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Baroness that the framework she has just described is precisely what DCSF is ...
Baroness Carnegy of Lour | 698 c287GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know the intricacies of this system. It is not something that I have specialised in; but it...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c286-7GC (Link to this contribution) That is a rather big question which I think we will pick up as we go through our deliberations, but ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c286GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has just said that the original intention of the 1991 Act was—again I am paraphrasing...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c275-80GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Before Clause 1, insert the following new Clause— ““Objectives of the Ac...
Bishop of Southwell and Nottingham | 698 c283-4GC (Link to this contribution) I support the intention of the noble Lords, Lord Kirkwood and Lord Addington, to explore the purpose...
Lord Northbourne | 698 c283GC (Link to this contribution) I like objective clauses. We have normally failed to get them into a Bill but, where they have been ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c307GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 17 to 22: 17: Schedule 1, page 50, line 31, leave out paragraph 22 and inser...
Baroness Verma | 698 c306GC (Link to this contribution) Again, I thank the Minister for his considerations. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendmen...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c306GC (Link to this contribution) On the latter point, one could envisage that it would normally be the case that at least one member ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c303GC (Link to this contribution) It is clear under the operational improvement plan that the end of March 2008 was the time frame wit...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c303GC (Link to this contribution) It was supposed to be introduced last autumn actually. However, I agree that what the Minister says ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c303GC (Link to this contribution) I have already made it clear that there were a number of issues, including staffing, and, yes, VAT w...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c301GC (Link to this contribution) Yes. I obviously did not explain myself very well. Of course it marks a change from the past. What e...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c301GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister gave us three distinct differences between the operations of CMEC and those of the CSA,...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c296-7GC (Link to this contribution) That is very helpful. The CSA does not quite come to a grinding halt as late as I thought, but much ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c295-6GC (Link to this contribution) I hope what I said was that, as originally proposed, there would be an executive NDPB. The amendment...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c295GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot say that I was interrupted in full flood because I speak somewhat slowly, but perhaps I may...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c294-5GC (Link to this contribution) I have never been one to refuse an invitation, especially one produced like that. Before I start, fo...
Lord Northbourne | 698 c324GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken. Obviously it is an extremely complex issue and we ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c320-3GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood, said, this has been a heavyweight discussion. I start by speaking ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c324-5GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may make it clear that I do not assert that the commission has no role in the broader agen...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 698 c326GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Thursday 31 January at 2 pm.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c326GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Thursday at 2 pm.
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c309GC (Link to this contribution) I and my noble friend Lady Verma have added our names to the last two amendments in the group, Amend...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c307-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 23: 23: Clause 2, page 1, line 8, leave out subsection (1) and insert— ““(1) T...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c313GC (Link to this contribution) In other words, the age is about to go up. Is that right?
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c313-4GC (Link to this contribution) It depends. The noble Lord asserts that we are raising the school-leaving age—I am not sure whether ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c310-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am very happy to continue but I am sorry that I shall have to do so in the absence of the noble Lo...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c316GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask the noble Lord a simple question. He asked why children in Scotland should have pr...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 698 c316-7GC (Link to this contribution) I have put my name to the three amendments. There is no definition of parenting in any primary or se...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c288GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for colleagues’ contributions. It has been an important debate. I am not confident tha...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c280-3GC (Link to this contribution) I believe that over the next few days and weeks the House is in for an unusual treat in that we have...
Subjects
Child support Children Conditions of employment Debts Age Absent parents Child Support Agency ICT Maintenance Parents Staff Standards Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission
Legislation
Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill 2006-07 to 2007-08
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk