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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 31 January 2008, in the House of Lords.

Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill

Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill. Lords Committee stage second day. Clauses 2 to 9 agreed to. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
698 c379-436GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Work and Pensions
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c425-6GC (Link to this contribution) If the Minister is using CAFCASS as an example to reassure us, he is only making us even more scepti...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c424GC (Link to this contribution) I accept the point that the noble Baroness may be pressing. The commission has not drawn up detailed...
Show all contributions (82)
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c397-8GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend’s amendment for a pragmatic reason. One could put forward all sorts of arg...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c396GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can take the opportunity to tell the noble Lord that my note says that EDS own the intelle...
Baroness Verma | 698 c423GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his consideration, but he missed the point about clarity. What relevant aut...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c413GC (Link to this contribution) I would argue that it is. What happens when you have a parent with care who is exploding in tears do...
Lord Addington | 698 c426GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 51: 51: Clause 6, page 2, line 27, at end insert— ““(1A) The Secretary of Stat...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c424GC (Link to this contribution) Regulations have clearly not yet been produced to specify which public bodies might be involved. I f...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c424GC (Link to this contribution) We will write to the noble Baroness. We will rack our brains to try to give a broader range of appro...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c430GC (Link to this contribution) No, not of itself. I was going to go on to say that it will be done against the backdrop of the annu...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c430GC (Link to this contribution) That does not mean that it is satisfactory.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c430GC (Link to this contribution) The thrust of Amendment No. 51, in particular, is to say that there will be no charging until there ...
Lord Addington | 698 c430GC (Link to this contribution) I think that the Minister said that roughly what is suggested in Amendment No. 51 is what the Govern...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c429-30GC (Link to this contribution) It would be right to say ““if””. It is not contemplated, so far as I am aware, but if there were to ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c429GC (Link to this contribution) If I were in a mischievous frame of mind, I would immediately whop down a manuscript amendment to, w...
Lord Addington | 698 c430-1GC (Link to this contribution) In discussing what is a satisfactory service, that probably depends on where you are standing at the...
Lord Addington | 698 c396-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 31: 31: Clause 2, page 1, line 17, at end insert— ““( ) to contribute to the r...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c389-90GC (Link to this contribution) I suggest that the noble Lord is putting words into my mouth. I have never suggested that I disagree...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c390-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 29: 29: Clause 2, page 1, line 17, at end insert— ““( ) to promote an open com...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c393GC (Link to this contribution) One thing is certain: no computer owned by CMEC or the CSA can take any account whatever of voluntar...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c393-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord for tabling the amendments, both of which suggest ways to ensure the standard...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c387-8GC (Link to this contribution) I was asked under what mechanism we will know whether the voluntary arrangements are secure and effe...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c387GC (Link to this contribution) We should recognise that voluntary arrangements are not new to the UK system. What is new is that th...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c380-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, in the style in which he has introduced th...
Baroness Verma | 698 c424GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I am just very confused. I feel that that does not pin down the relevant authorities for peo...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c418GC (Link to this contribution) I also saw the nods and I saw the frown when I was quoting the letter from memory, which is always d...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c418GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has provoked me in the mildest possible way. The record on pension credit take-up is ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c417-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention, and I will certainly discuss that point with appropriate collea...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c412GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments have given us an opportunity to debate an important part of the Bill. They would amen...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c408-10GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 39: 39: Clause 4, page 2, line 15, leave out paragraph (a) The noble Lord sai...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c407-8GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 38 introduces a new clause requiring the commission to produce an operational plan. Th...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c403-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 38: 38: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause— ““Approval of operati...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c405-7GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think this is a very good idea. It is an unusual idea altogether. The noble Lord, Lord Kirk...
Lord Addington | 698 c400GC (Link to this contribution) When there are so many voices against me, I am well advised to pull back. I saw this amendment as tr...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c400-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 37: 37: Clause 2, page 1, line 19, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of State...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c402GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend and I put our names to this amendment. Words of such a subjective nature in Acts of ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c402-3GC (Link to this contribution) The amendment requires the Secretary of State to define in regulations the meaning of effective main...
Lord Addington | 698 c399GC (Link to this contribution) I tabled the amendment in an attempt to try to work out where the Government believe the duty ties i...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c425GC (Link to this contribution) I have two points. The noble Lord presses me, but it genuinely is for the commission to develop the ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c424GC (Link to this contribution) I find this discussion quite extraordinary. In what he has just said, the Minister relied on Clause ...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c425GC (Link to this contribution) The debate has been valuable. I want to reflect on what has been said. I have two queries. First, th...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c436GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord for proving what I said in my opening sentences on Tuesday...
Lord Brabazon of Tara | 698 c436GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Tuesday 5 February at 3.30 pm.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c436GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Tuesday at 3.30 pm.
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c432-3GC (Link to this contribution) The annual report is an important document. The amendments in this group tabled in my name and that ...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c431-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 58: 58: Clause 9, page 4, line 22, leave out ““for each financial year”” and i...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c397GC (Link to this contribution) I find this a rather curious amendment from Gingerbread. I am not sure that it is appropriate to put...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 698 c399GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that everyone, not only in the Moses Room but throughout the country, wants to support the...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c394GC (Link to this contribution) My understanding—perhaps I misunderstood—was that under the EDS contract, it owned not only the syst...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c396GC (Link to this contribution) On that happy note, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendm...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c396GC (Link to this contribution) Obviously, I will withdraw the amendments. I will study carefully what the Minister has said. I thin...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c389GC (Link to this contribution) That is an extremely useful adjunct to what I was saying. As usual, the noble Baroness, being rather...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c385-6GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, referred to the Minister being lonely. My spies tell me that he h...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c379-80GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 26: 26: Clause 2, page 1, line 15, after ““to”” insert ““encourage when approp...
Lord Brougham and Vaux | 698 c379GC (Link to this contribution) Welcome to day two of the Bill. Clause 2 [Objectives of the Commission]:
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c418GC (Link to this contribution) I do not have the letter in front of me, but it is not my understanding that Ventura will run the co...
Baroness Verma | 698 c421GC (Link to this contribution) I shall avoid following my noble friend in attacking the noble Lord, Lord Kirkwood. On Amendments No...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c421-3GC (Link to this contribution) I thank noble Lords for tabling these amendments, which raise interesting points. On Amendments Nos....
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c418GC (Link to this contribution) I am very glad that we have had this debate. I certainly agree that there has been no dedicated serv...
Baroness Butler-Sloss | 698 c417GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to hear that the department is proposing to use child contact centres as places where...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c413-7GC (Link to this contribution) To be clear, I am not in any way suggesting that the emotional turmoil that arises from the breakdow...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c408GC (Link to this contribution) I am happy to do that. We have had a fair enough debate. If the annual report does what the Minister...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c399-400GC (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting, if short, debate on what is clearly an important issue. The Government...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c426-8GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that Amendment No. 51, which makes conditional the commission’s powers to charge fees o...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c424GC (Link to this contribution) All my noble friend was after was an example and we have not had one yet.
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c433-6GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments in this group provide a helpful opportunity to discuss issues around the annual repor...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c428-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lords for the amendment, which seeks to achieve three things: to prevent the commi...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c398-9GC (Link to this contribution) I support the position of the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, for two reasons. I am not sure how my n...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c394-6GC (Link to this contribution) It is not a matter that has been brought to my attention in the various discussions that we have had...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c389GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord will forgive me for interrupting, but I am trying to follow the line of his a...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c387GC (Link to this contribution) The distinction applies because in a voluntary system, where the mothers are not on benefit, as oppo...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c388-9GC (Link to this contribution) A thought has just struck me as a result of the noble Lord’s thoughtful remarks about the non-reside...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c388GC (Link to this contribution) I confess that when I first looked at the Bill and saw Clause 2 and realised the connotations of the...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c386-7GC (Link to this contribution) On average, a parent is a lone parent for three to three and a half years. She then usually moves in...
Baroness Hollis of Heigham | 698 c381-3GC (Link to this contribution) I sincerely apologise for missing the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale. Forgive me, I wa...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c383-5GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 26 and the first part of Amendment No. 32 would require the commission to encourage ap...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 698 c423GC (Link to this contribution) The definition is in Clause 7(4): "““any Minister of the Crown or department of the Government of th...
Lord Skelmersdale | 698 c419GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord got up rather too early; I acknowledged that it was improving, so we should leave it ...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c419-21GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 47: 47: Clause 5, page 2, line 24, at end insert— ““( ) The provisions of this...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c410-2GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Skelmersdale, that this is an important and dense group of amendme...
Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope | 698 c403GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that takes us any further. Regulations could make the situation clearer by taking car...
Lord Geddes | 698 c405GC (Link to this contribution) Before putting the amendment, could I remind the noble Lord that while he can, and of course almost ...
Subjects
Complaints Child support Children Contracts Contact orders Absent parents Contracts for services Child Support Agency Fees and charges Families ICT Information Maintenance Parents Poverty Parliamentary scrutiny Welfare tax credits Voluntary organisations Separation Children's centres Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission
Legislation
Child Maintenance and Other Payments Bill 2006-07 to 2007-08
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk