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Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Tuesday, 24 March 2009, in the House of Lords.

Postal Services Bill [HL]

Postal Services Bill (HL). Lords Committee stage first day. Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to. Clauses 3 to 9, and Schedule 1, debated and agreed to. New clause (Amendment 2) not moved. New clauses (Amendments 3, 4, 9, 10 and 19) debated and withdrawn. New clause (Amendment 14) negatived on division (89 votes to 115).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
709 c557-66, 582-619, 639-650 
Session
2008-09
Department
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Hoyle | 709 c601 (Link to this contribution) If I am being less than accurate, I am only citing the figures that Adam Crozier gave as chief execu...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c601-2 (Link to this contribution) I have no wish to delay the Secretary of State’s response to the challenge that he has just received...
Show all contributions (101)
Lord Mandelson | 709 c602-3 (Link to this contribution) In the first instance, I will respond to two specific questions. Other contributions have been wider...
Lord Hoyle | 709 c603 (Link to this contribution) I wish to keep it in the public sector as a separate company, but not to be shackled by the Treasury...
Lord Mandelson | 709 c603-5 (Link to this contribution) No scheme has been devised in similar circumstances for my noble friend to have his cake and eat it ...
Lord Morgan | 709 c605-6 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting debate and I am grateful to all those who have participated, and I thank ...
Lord Hoyle | 709 c599-600 (Link to this contribution) I did not think I would have to go over some of the points I made at Second Reading. However, my nob...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 709 c600 (Link to this contribution) We are all trying to get the same objective delivered at the end of the day; the defence of the univ...
Lord Hoyle | 709 c600 (Link to this contribution) I read the Hooper report very carefully. Is my noble friend taking into account the loss of £100 mil...
Baroness Vadera | 709 c611-2 (Link to this contribution) I can certainly commit to rereading the Hooper report many times between now and Royal Assent, and i...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c612 (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for that reply, which has been very revealing. I was a member of the Bullock...
Baroness Vadera | 709 c610-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Lea. I was interested in the philosophical points that he rais...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c611 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to ask my noble friend to give way, but it was in precisely this area that the analysis i...
Lord De Mauley | 709 c612 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord withdraws his amendment, I should like to ask the Minister a further question....
Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c606 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 9 9: After Clause 3, insert the following new Clause— "Membership of the Royal Mail board...
Lord Morgan | 709 c610 (Link to this contribution) I have already detained the Committee a great deal today. I shall take, at most, one minute now. I h...
Lord De Mauley | 709 c610 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Lea, raises an interesting point that adds to the debate we had on Amendment 4....
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 709 c609-10 (Link to this contribution) In listening to my noble friend speaking about the 1970s, I was reminded of an exciting experiment i...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c615 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 14 14: After Clause 4, insert the following new Clause— "Report on impact of re-organisat...
Lord Hoyle | 709 c616 (Link to this contribution) It is important that we look at the effect of any partnership on the companies. The noble Lord is ri...
Baroness Vadera | 709 c616-7 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the amendment, not because I believe that it is necessary but because it provides a welcom...
Baroness Vadera | 709 c613 (Link to this contribution) I think that that is a clear and complete misrepresentation of what I have said. I said that the Gov...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c614 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the Committee will forgive me for making one final intervention. This is revealing the a...
Baroness Vadera | 709 c614 (Link to this contribution) I was of course answering the question of the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, about the partnership with...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c614-5 (Link to this contribution) I am very disappointed that two-thirds of the Minister’s reply was to something which is not part of...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c613 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my noble friend for giving way again, but I think that she has missed the poin...
Lord Razzall | 709 c563 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether other noble Lords share my disappointment at the way in which this Committee s...
Lord Mandelson | 709 c564-5 (Link to this contribution) In response to my noble friend Lord Hoyle, who asked some pertinent questions, all the answers are v...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c558-60 (Link to this contribution) There is so much wrong with that question. First, let us look forward and not back. But in looking b...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 709 c558 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord goes any further, will he tell us how many post offices closed between 1979 an...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 709 c560-2 (Link to this contribution) I oppose this amendment. I feel that the absence of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, from the other place ...
Lord Hoyle | 709 c562-3 (Link to this contribution) I have a few questions. We are in the position of looking forward today and of seeing what has happe...
Lord Razzall | 709 c562 (Link to this contribution) No, go ahead; I like Second Reading speeches. I will do mine afterwards.
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c586 (Link to this contribution) That was a very helpful response, but it raises a number of further questions, particularly over the...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c565-6 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Secretary of State very much indeed for responding so positively with the statement "Bet...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c582-3 (Link to this contribution) The amendment seeks to create a scheme which I know has the support of many Members of the Committee...
Lord Brookman | 709 c566 (Link to this contribution) In this vein almost of comradeship, will my friend confirm—he is a friend; Wales lost on Saturday an...
Lord Mandelson | 709 c584-6 (Link to this contribution) We made clear in the policy statement which we issued when the Bill was published that the issue of ...
Lord Razzall | 709 c584 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, that now is the time to determine whether we have ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c583-4 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is right to point out the dangers of a predator. No doubt we will be dealing with tha...
Lord Hoyle | 709 c583 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the noble Lord is saying about the benefits to employers, and I do not disagree wi...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c587 (Link to this contribution) Does the Secretary of State believe that if that were to happen in these discussions, the present Bi...
Lord Mandelson | 709 c587 (Link to this contribution) The relationship between Government and any partner will be subject to a shareholders’ agreement. Th...
Lord De Mauley | 709 c589-90 (Link to this contribution) The amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, raise important questions and we look forward to he...
Lord Whitty | 709 c589 (Link to this contribution) I shall not be able to be present when the Committee discusses later amendments relating to the gove...
Lord Mandelson | 709 c590-1 (Link to this contribution) Ensuring the appropriate governance arrangements for the Royal Mail Group of companies is absolutely...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c587-8 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that the Secretary of State quite said that there would be no need for any further le...
Lord Mandelson | 709 c587 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the spirit of the noble Lord’s inquiry. No such shareholder agreement exists because no...
Lord Bradshaw | 709 c588-9 (Link to this contribution) I have no intention of repeating my Second Reading speech. I trust that the Minister, who was not pr...
Lord Bradshaw | 709 c588 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 4 4: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause— "Post Office board of directors (1)...
Lord Razzall | 709 c594 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral, will take the same view as I do on this a...
Lord Morgan | 709 c592-4 (Link to this contribution) I shall speak also to Amendments 7 and 8. If it is permissible, I would like to degroup Amendment 13...
Lord Morgan | 709 c592 (Link to this contribution) Clause 5: Royal Mail companies to be publicly owned Amendment 5 5: Clause 3, page 2, line 15, leav...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 709 c598-9 (Link to this contribution) I support what my noble friend Lord Morgan said when moving this amendment. I also support my noble ...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 709 c597-8 (Link to this contribution) I will be brief and do not wish to repeat all that has been said by my noble friend Lord O'Neill. I ...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c597 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord O'Neill asked a question of the supporters of the amendment. We can all ask que...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 709 c596-7 (Link to this contribution) At Second Reading I made some points that address some of these issues. This group of amendments rec...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 709 c595-6 (Link to this contribution) I support the excellent speech that my noble friend Lord Morgan made in moving the amendment. He has...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c594-5 (Link to this contribution) I support the mover of this amendment and want to underline one thing that he said towards the end o...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c557 (Link to this contribution) Clauses 1 and 2 agreed. Amendment 1 1: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause— "Post Offi...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c557-8 (Link to this contribution) First, I declare my interests as set out in the register and, in particular, as a partner in the nat...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 709 c641 (Link to this contribution) Could I hear that again, as it might help to avoid some of the rumours currently going around in Roy...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 709 c641 (Link to this contribution) Can I ask my noble friend to repeat his question?
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c618 (Link to this contribution) I am very concerned about all this. I thought that it was much clearer than I now think it is. When ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c639 (Link to this contribution) Clause 5: Power to direct issue of certain securities Amendment 15 15: Clause 5, page 3, line 6, l...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c640 (Link to this contribution) This is a very simple probing amendment on the impact of the privatisation on the subsidiary compani...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 709 c640-1 (Link to this contribution) Amendments 15 and 16 relate to the Secretary of State’s powers to direct the issue of, and to acquir...
Baroness Vadera | 709 c617 (Link to this contribution) I am a little unclear whether my noble friend is suggesting that the partnership should be with Roya...
Lord Hoyle | 709 c617 (Link to this contribution) Just to clarify what my noble friend said in reply to my question, am I right in thinking that the p...
Baroness Vadera | 709 c618 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps we could clarify this separately. I would be very happy to have a meeting to discuss this, b...
Lord Hoyle | 709 c618 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry. I am sure that we are saying the same thing—I am not trying to be awkward. The partnersh...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c644 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Clarke of Hampstead, and the noble Baroness have just given us a clear picture ...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 709 c643-4 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend in these amendments. As he rightly explained, his proposed wording enormou...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 709 c643 (Link to this contribution) As most people still in the Chamber will realise, TUPE is a valuable part of good industrial relatio...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 709 c643 (Link to this contribution) Schedule 1: Transfer schemes Amendment 17 17: Schedule 1, page 40, line 7, leave out paragraphs 15...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 709 c644-7 (Link to this contribution) The sentiment behind these amendments is to ensure that employees get the best protection possible f...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 709 c641 (Link to this contribution) With the greatest of pleasure. Am I to understand from the Minister’s reply that there is no suggest...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 709 c642 (Link to this contribution) There are no current plans for the Royal Mail Group to sell its stake in GLS, which will be included...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c642 (Link to this contribution) I am a little bit confused, but I think that noble Lords opposite have raised some important points....
Lord Tunnicliffe | 709 c641 (Link to this contribution) The amendment that we are discussing makes no difference one way or other to that position. GLS will...
Lord Hoyle | 709 c641-2 (Link to this contribution) With due respect to my noble friend the Minister, I heard his reply—I listened very carefully to it—...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 709 c649 (Link to this contribution) If it helps the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, I will respond on the point about consultation, specifically ...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 709 c649 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord speaks, I listened to the questions that he posed, and he wished to hear the M...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c649 (Link to this contribution) I listened very carefully to what the noble Lord, Lord Brooke, said. However, the Minister has just ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c647 (Link to this contribution) The Minister may well be about to answer the questions that I raised about the inconsistency between...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 709 c647 (Link to this contribution) I was about to apologise for not answering those questions. I cannot recite that level of detail. I ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c648 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Clarke, concludes on what he intends to do about Amendment 17, it may be...
Lord Clarke of Hampstead | 709 c648-9 (Link to this contribution) The temptation to sit down and talk to people about the interpretation is of course a great thing, b...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c649 (Link to this contribution) Clause 8: Transfer of employees otherwise than under transfer schemes Amendment 18 18: Clause 8, p...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c649 (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to what the—
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 709 c601 (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend clear something up for us? Is the £100 million that has been lost through liber...
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe | 709 c562 (Link to this contribution) I shall respond to the invitation of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, to look to the future rather than to...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c582 (Link to this contribution) Amendment 3 3: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause— "Provisions for employee ownership ...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c566 (Link to this contribution) We have no present plans to increase the extent of the privatisation. I still await our debate on th...
Lord Neill of Bladen | 709 c598 (Link to this contribution) I believed that I was making exactly the same point about practicalities as the noble Lords, Lord Le...
Lord Hunt of Wirral | 709 c615-6 (Link to this contribution) My amendment is prompted by concerns that the reorganisation envisaged by the Bill will lead to a we...
Lord Bradshaw | 709 c591-2 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply. I would just draw his attention to Network Rail—a company witho...
Lord Lea of Crondall | 709 c606-9 (Link to this contribution) In the amendment I have identified three key and well known stakeholders represented in successful b...
Baroness Vadera | 709 c613 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to provide the answer under this group of amendments. The Government are committed to ens...
Subjects
Conditions of employment Directors Bank services Industrial relations Finance Governing bodies Income Government assistance Government shareholding Private sector Public appointments Property transfer Public consultation Staff Post offices Postal services Ofcom Post Office Stocks and shares Royal Mail Reorganisation Postal Services Sector Review Employee ownership
Legislation
Postal Services Bill (HL) 2008-09
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk