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Adjournment debate on Thursday, 4 February 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Andrew Dismore. The answering member was Meg Hillier.

Human Rights

Westminster Hall debate on a motion for ther adjournment on policing and protest. (Relevant documents: Human Rights Joint Select Committee seventh report of session 2008-09, HC 320, and the Government response, Cm 7633; and the Twenty-second Report from the Committee, Session 2008-09, HC 522, and the Government response, HC 328, Session 2009-10.)

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
505 c149-90WH 
Session
2009-10
Department
Home Office
Chamber / Committee
Westminster Hall
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Meg Hillier | 505 c172-3WH (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr. Streeter. I congratulate my hon. Friend the M...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c173WH (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right to say that human rights policing is not anything-goes policing. Evidence from...
Show all contributions (89)
David Howarth | 505 c167-8WH (Link to this contribution) One would hope not. The point is that the Court struck down section 44 on its face— not as it was ap...
David Ruffley | 505 c168-72WH (Link to this contribution) We have already had a forensically interesting debate and I will start my remarks by highlighting, u...
David Howarth | 505 c161-2WH (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Members for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) and for Stroud (Mr. Drew) said, I have been directly in...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c161WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is a profound defender of the right of free speech, and he has made his point. Th...
Evan Harris | 505 c160-1WH (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that constituency work will not enable me to make a substantive contribution or hear the ...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c160WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the police use the word "containment" and that protesters use ...
David Ruffley | 505 c160WH (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman believe that word "kettling", which is in the public domain, is pejorative a...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c158-60WH (Link to this contribution) Not today. The point is clear. When we talk about important provisions covering protests around Parl...
David Howarth | 505 c162WH (Link to this contribution) Yes, I have always wondered what an impossible wasp would be. Although the situation has now moved ...
David Howarth | 505 c164WH (Link to this contribution) Obviously, we must listen to the police when they talk about what powers they feel they need, but we...
Evan Harris | 505 c164WH (Link to this contribution) I think that it is true that ACPO has never responded to the Government by saying, "No, we don't nee...
David Howarth | 505 c165WH (Link to this contribution) I am sure that what we do not need is a system of directly elected sheriffs, which would mean that w...
David Ruffley | 505 c164WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is developing an interesting argument, as always. Am I right to suppose that he t...
David Howarth | 505 c163WH (Link to this contribution) Can I just finish the point? I do not want to break off without saying what the improvements have be...
David Ruffley | 505 c163WH (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
David Howarth | 505 c163-4WH (Link to this contribution) On the Committee's report, there are still points at issue between the Government and the Committee....
David Ruffley | 505 c163WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has answered my question.
Andrew Dismore | 505 c165WH (Link to this contribution) I agree with the hon. Gentleman, who is developing a theme from my report. It is bizarre that ACPO s...
David Howarth | 505 c165-6WH (Link to this contribution) Yes; I agree on both those points. The appointment of Sir Hugh Orde is an excellent one, and I look ...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c166WH (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that one of those who was stopped under section 44 was Admiral Lord West of Spit...
Meg Hillier | 505 c179WH (Link to this contribution) I do not want to give way again, because we are going around in circles. We may have to agree to dis...
Meg Hillier | 505 c179WH (Link to this contribution) I disagree. In the vast majority of cases, there is trust between police and protesters. If we went ...
Meg Hillier | 505 c180WH (Link to this contribution) Again, the judgment needs to be made on the ground by the commanding police officers.
Andrew Dismore | 505 c180WH (Link to this contribution) It is not about uniform; it is about policing tactics. I suggest that my hon. Friend consider what h...
Meg Hillier | 505 c179-80WH (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to trivialise what my hon. Friend says, because I know that he says it with some feeli...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c179WH (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend misunderstands the position. The difficulty with police in riot gear is that it can s...
Meg Hillier | 505 c179WH (Link to this contribution) I will give way to my hon. Friend.
Meg Hillier | 505 c180WH (Link to this contribution) In that situation, the decision was made, but my point is that the decision must be made at operatio...
Meg Hillier | 505 c180WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman will forgive me, but I wish to move on. We had a lot of discussion of stop and se...
Meg Hillier | 505 c183-4WH (Link to this contribution) I will pass on the hon. Gentleman's repeated acceptance of that apology and I am sure that my hon. F...
David Howarth | 505 c183WH (Link to this contribution) I think it was wasp stings. I put it on the record that I accepted at the time and still accept that...
Meg Hillier | 505 c184-5WH (Link to this contribution) We are asking the police to do a great deal if they are to be held responsible for the headlines in ...
David Howarth | 505 c184WH (Link to this contribution) The point I was trying to get across was the Joint Committee's original point. It was a criticism no...
Meg Hillier | 505 c180-2WH (Link to this contribution) We can always find examples—sadly, there are examples—of where the powers have not been used clearly...
Meg Hillier | 505 c182-3WH (Link to this contribution) Although this is not my normal area of work in the Home Office, I have looked at the issue closely b...
David Howarth | 505 c182WH (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that my hon. Friend the Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon can no longer be here becaus...
Meg Hillier | 505 c175-6WH (Link to this contribution) I can confirm that and I will go into more detail on that when I address those issues. My hon. Frie...
Meg Hillier | 505 c173-5WH (Link to this contribution) I take this opportunity to echo the comments of my hon. Friend and to praise the progress that has b...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c175WH (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right, but what she is talking about are the restrictions on protests; the restricti...
Meg Hillier | 505 c176WH (Link to this contribution) Well, I think that we need to be clear that there could be perverse outcomes if we rushed into chang...
Meg Hillier | 505 c176WH (Link to this contribution) It is not that there is no urgency. If we are looking to change the law, whether through primary leg...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c176WH (Link to this contribution) I do not think that it is an isolated case—that is the problem. Indeed, the BBC produced a programme...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c176-7WH (Link to this contribution) I simply say to my hon. Friend that someone from Fathers 4 Justice, or whatever, may well be a prote...
Meg Hillier | 505 c177WH (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I did not make my point clear, but it was about somebody who was, for example, in the situat...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c177WH (Link to this contribution) Of course it is a matter for the courts as to whether an injunction should be granted, but it is a m...
Meg Hillier | 505 c177WH (Link to this contribution) The courts are obliged to take into account articles 10 and 11 of the ECHR in all cases before them,...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c177-8WH (Link to this contribution) Generally, there is not a problem—there is communication. We know that from the 4,500 to 5,000 cases...
Meg Hillier | 505 c178WH (Link to this contribution) Of course, the police should always be willing to talk to anyone. It distresses me sometimes when I ...
David Howarth | 505 c178WH (Link to this contribution) The problem, as I observed it in the G20 situation, was that both police and protesters assumed that...
Meg Hillier | 505 c178WH (Link to this contribution) May I just finish my point? The existing public order framework operates effectively and it ensures ...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c178-9WH (Link to this contribution) We are not talking about one case. We are talking about one case in which a mediator appeared, a ser...
Meg Hillier | 505 c178WH (Link to this contribution) Certainly the police's job is to facilitate protest—as long as it is peaceful. The police must estab...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c186-7WH (Link to this contribution) We have had a constructive debate and there has been a great deal of agreement. It is unfortunate th...
David Ruffley | 505 c185WH (Link to this contribution) If the Minister could provide some written material along the lines she has suggested, particularly ...
Meg Hillier | 505 c185-6WH (Link to this contribution) As I am not the lead Minister in that area, I cannot promise exactly what I can provide, but I will ...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c189-90WH (Link to this contribution) As I said earlier, I appreciate what happened at Blackheath, as both the protesters and the police p...
Meg Hillier | 505 c187-8WH (Link to this contribution) We are talking at cross purposes here. The difference is that the situation in Northern Ireland deve...
David Howarth | 505 c188WH (Link to this contribution) I would like to add another observation that I have made over the past few years about trust breakin...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c188WH (Link to this contribution) Of course it should be the police. My hon. Friend is right that in Northern Ireland there was a long...
Meg Hillier | 505 c189WH (Link to this contribution) I hope that my hon. Friend will acknowledge that in Blackheath the police are building bridges and t...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c188-9WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes his point well. We have seen new forms of protest evolve because the tradit...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c158WH (Link to this contribution) I will not be drawn down that byway.
Evan Harris | 505 c158WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has drawn attention to a real problem to do with debating laws such as this: we d...
David Howarth | 505 c152WH (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on introducing this important debate. I will be interested to hear...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c152WH (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who is a valuable member of my Committee. He raises a serious i...
Evan Harris | 505 c151-2WH (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to hear the Chairman of the Committee on which I serve set out the provisions so clearl...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c151WH (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend certainly makes an important point. The question of photography comes up in all sorts...
David Drew | 505 c151WH (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way and sorry for missing the first minute of his speech....
Andrew Dismore | 505 c149-51WH (Link to this contribution) The purpose of the debate is to consider the two reports from the Joint Committee on Human Rights on...
David Howarth | 505 c158WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, especially in light of the fact that the Government previousl...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c157-8WH (Link to this contribution) Putting aside the question of the legality of the war altogether, the Tamil protest is another examp...
David Drew | 505 c153WH (Link to this contribution) There is a need for common sense, as my hon. Friend knows from his deep involvement in the matter. O...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c152-3WH (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, who makes an important point. I suppose that the Government wil...
David Ruffley | 505 c154WH (Link to this contribution) If I read the hon. Gentleman correctly, he is suggesting that on the mainland, not in Northern Irela...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c153-4WH (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. I said earlier that the series of petty incidents have a cumulati...
David Ruffley | 505 c155WH (Link to this contribution) What does the hon. Gentleman think the optimal amount of hours for training on human rights should b...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c154-5WH (Link to this contribution) No, that is not what I am saying. My position on that will become clear later in my speech. In short...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c155-7WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman approaches the matter from the wrong direction. There is an assumption, in relati...
Andrew Dismore | 505 c158WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes his point. I hope that the Minister will explain the rationale behind the a...
Subjects
Demonstrations Cameras Human rights Journalism Injunctions Police Powers Stop and search
Link
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