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Opposition day on Tuesday, 16 March 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Willetts. The answering member was Lord Brennan of Canton.

Higher Education

Higher education. Sixth opposition day debate (part 2). Motion negatived on division (321 to 156). Amendment agreed on division (287 to 182).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
507 c792-844 
Session
2009-10
Department
Department for Children, Schools and Families
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 507 c804 (Link to this contribution) Order. Duplicity is not a nice word, and I would be grateful if the Minister would withdraw it.
Lord Brennan of Canton | 507 c834-6 (Link to this contribution) By putting that third poet in, the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr. Hayes) took m...
Show all contributions (134)
Lord Robathan | 507 c836 (Link to this contribution) claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36). Question put forthwith, That the Question be n...
Stephen Williams | 507 c812 (Link to this contribution) I reiterate that the position of my party is that tuition fees do not form part of the long-term fut...
Simon Burns | 507 c811 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Gentleman moves on, could he actually answer my question? Will he stop his candidate...
Stephen Williams | 507 c811 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I certainly hope that students follow this debate closely, and perhap...
Speaker | 507 c811 (Link to this contribution) Order. I say to the House, I appreciate that the general election is not very far away, but this—[In...
Stephen Williams | 507 c811 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. I understand he may be feeling a bit worried about ...
Simon Burns | 507 c811 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just reconfirmed it. Can he now give a commitment that Liberal Democrat candi...
Christopher Fraser | 507 c812 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman answer this question? The politics page on the bbc.co.uk website claims that...
Stephen Williams | 507 c812 (Link to this contribution) I think the simple answer, if I do the mental arithmetic, is that that is probably the cumulative co...
James Plaskitt | 507 c812 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman clearly hopes that students will be interested in his proposition that the Libera...
David Lammy | 507 c813 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman have a proposal to put to the House?
Stephen Williams | 507 c813 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend is absolutely right about the sage of Twickenham. I am looking forward...
Speaker | 507 c814 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the Whips that they are not supposed to intervene, and certainly not shout persisten...
Stephen Williams | 507 c814 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, I do. When I have dispensed with the Conservative proposal, I shall turn to ours. The Conser...
David Lammy | 507 c812 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman accepts that his scheme would cost a considerable amount of money. He has previou...
Stephen Williams | 507 c812 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman was not listening too carefully to what I said earlier about that proposa...
Martin Horwood | 507 c813 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the consternation and multiple interventions that we have heard from ...
Stephen Williams | 507 c813 (Link to this contribution) No, I am not prepared to confirm that there would be fewer students, or, indeed, more. The Minister ...
Stephen Williams | 507 c814 (Link to this contribution) To reiterate, in case it was lost in that heckling, there is no certainty that poorer students or th...
Christopher Fraser | 507 c806-7 (Link to this contribution) The Minister talks about students understanding things, and perhaps he could explain something to so...
David Lammy | 507 c806 (Link to this contribution) Yes—it is the hon. Member for Havant who apparently has two brains, and he adopted that new phrase. ...
David Lammy | 507 c807 (Link to this contribution) I said, let us turn to this issue. The hon. Gentleman should wait a moment. It is too early to say e...
David Lammy | 507 c807 (Link to this contribution) Let us turn, then, to this issue—
David Lammy | 507 c808 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman asks what I say to them. I say to them that sixth form is available, and we are f...
Speaker | 507 c808 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for South-West Norfolk (Christopher Fraser) is getting the answer that he is getting...
David Lammy | 507 c807 (Link to this contribution) They will get the answer that I have given, which is, first of all, that there will be more students...
David Lammy | 507 c808 (Link to this contribution) We have increased the number of apprenticeships available in further education to ensure that young ...
David Lammy | 507 c808 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that we have said already that demand is up by 23 per cent. We are monitori...
John Hayes | 507 c808 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, and I know that he is doing his best to answer this im...
Frank Dobson | 507 c808 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that there seems to be some inconsistency among those on the Opposit...
David Lammy | 507 c809 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend makes the point succinctly and beautifully. I have nothing more to add, except ...
David Lammy | 507 c809-10 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right to raise that issue, because a considerable dead-weight cost is attached to ...
Stephen Williams | 507 c810-1 (Link to this contribution) This time next week, we shall all be eagerly anticipating the Chancellor's Budget, which may be his ...
Simon Burns | 507 c811 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just confirmed that the Liberal Democrat policy is to abolish tuition fees ov...
Rob Marris | 507 c833 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
John Hayes | 507 c833-4 (Link to this contribution) I will not, because I want to make progress. I do apologise. There is limited time. When I meet stu...
John Hayes | 507 c832-3 (Link to this contribution) The Minister shakes his head once again, but the figures are here for him to consider, when he wishe...
Christopher Fraser | 507 c831 (Link to this contribution) On that point, does my hon. Friend agree that what the Minister said to me earlier was an insult to ...
John Hayes | 507 c831-2 (Link to this contribution) I think very highly of the Minister, and I admire his long journey from Tottenham to this place. How...
Chloe Smith | 507 c828-30 (Link to this contribution) Irrespective of whatever I may or may not be contributing myself, I welcome Lord Browne's review of ...
John Hayes | 507 c830-1 (Link to this contribution) This has been an important debate, because all our futures are built on how well we educate the next...
Chloe Smith | 507 c827-8 (Link to this contribution) I think that I may have the pleasure of being the last Back-Bench speaker in this debate. More than ...
Rob Marris | 507 c815 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. He will forgive me if I missed it earlier, but he has talked ab...
Rob Marris | 507 c815 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Stephen Williams | 507 c815-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is desperately trying to claim some sort of socially progressive message from the...
John Leech | 507 c816 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware that in some schools in my constituency—the constituency that is considered ...
Stephen Williams | 507 c815 (Link to this contribution) We are going back in time to try to cost the overall proposal to phase out tuition fees. I can assur...
Lord Willetts | 507 c815 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman concedes that in some groups we have reached saturation point, in his words, d...
Rob Marris | 507 c814 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Conservative proposal for 10,000 extra places covers one cohort...
Speaker | 507 c818 (Link to this contribution) Order. Six speakers are seeking to catch my eye, and we have about 50 minutes left. If hon. Members ...
Kelvin Hopkins | 507 c818-9 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I shall be very brief. I want to put out a radically different messag...
Andrew Turner | 507 c819-20 (Link to this contribution) It is clear that ensuring access to higher and further education is in the best interests of most st...
James Plaskitt | 507 c821-3 (Link to this contribution) As you rightly said, Mr. Deputy Speaker, this is a very important debate. I know that young people w...
Rob Wilson | 507 c823-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this important debate on access to higher educati...
Brian Iddon | 507 c825-7 (Link to this contribution) I want to explain, in clear language, why so many chemistry and physics departments close. That accu...
Stephen Williams | 507 c816 (Link to this contribution) I am fully aware of that. Schools in my hon. Friend's constituency, in the constituency of my hon. F...
David Lammy | 507 c816 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that it will be fully funded. When questioned by my hon. Friend the Member f...
Stephen Williams | 507 c816-7 (Link to this contribution) We are widening the debate into the costing of manifestos. I am happy, for the Minister's benefit, t...
David Lammy | 507 c804 (Link to this contribution) Not at this moment. We all know that the unskilled jobs that Britain relied on previously are no lon...
David Lammy | 507 c803-4 (Link to this contribution) I have already said to the hon. Gentleman and I have already said in this House that we are absolute...
John Hayes | 507 c804 (Link to this contribution) The Minister stood on a platform at the 2005 election of the 50 per cent. target. Will he tell us wh...
David Lammy | 507 c803 (Link to this contribution) The very start of the hon. Gentleman's question referred to the long-standing issues that exist at t...
Lord Willetts | 507 c803 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister would answer the following simple question: how many physics departments and ch...
Rob Marris | 507 c806 (Link to this contribution) Use one of your brains next time.
Lord Willetts | 507 c806 (Link to this contribution) May I make it clear that during the Minister's previous remarks, the hon. Member for Bolton, South-E...
David Lammy | 507 c805-6 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to give way—I think that I will make progress at this stage. I look forward to hearin...
David Lammy | 507 c805 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is very precious. I would say, "Snap," to her—in Tottenham, w...
David Lammy | 507 c805 (Link to this contribution) We have had this ding-dong several times across the Dispatch Box. It is clear that we started with f...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c805 (Link to this contribution) In the constituency of Plymouth, Sutton there has been a 67 per cent. increase in participation sinc...
David Lammy | 507 c805 (Link to this contribution) You are quite right, Mr. Deputy Speaker. Duplicity is not a nice word and I should not have used it....
Lord Willetts | 507 c805 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister is concerned about accuracy and inaccuracy, will he confirm that when we look at the...
David Lammy | 507 c802 (Link to this contribution) Look, I do not want to embarrass the hon. Gentleman, but I should refer him to the fundamentals of o...
Rob Wilson | 507 c802 (Link to this contribution) May I thank the Minister for giving way in what would be regarded as full flow? Can he explain to th...
David Lammy | 507 c802 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has a long memory, and the Conservatives still do want that, hence this proposal. Let...
Kelvin Hopkins | 507 c802 (Link to this contribution) Was the Conservatives' approach not simply one of their wanting to make tax cuts for the rich? That ...
Martin Horwood | 507 c803 (Link to this contribution) Moving back to the current state of education, is the Minister aware of the financial crisis at the ...
David Lammy | 507 c803 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for reminding us about the smoke and mirrors that the Conservat...
Jim Cunningham | 507 c802 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend not recall that prior to 1997 things got so bad and the Conservative party...
Lord Willetts | 507 c801 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making very heavy weather of something that is very straightforward. There is ...
David Lammy | 507 c801-2 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from "2010–11" to the end of the Question and add:""commend...
Rob Marris | 507 c800 (Link to this contribution) On where the money is coming from, I would like to take the hon. Gentleman back to the issue of the ...
Lord Brennan of Canton | 507 c798 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that he proposes to provide more training places. The motion says that as we...
Lord Willetts | 507 c797-8 (Link to this contribution) I propose to make some further progress with my speech. The Labour party has not come up with a sin...
Lord Willetts | 507 c798 (Link to this contribution) Our calculations suggest that the Train to Gain budget should be refocused on new opportunities for ...
Lord Willetts | 507 c798-800 (Link to this contribution) No. I want to make some progress. I want to hear from the Minister—indeed, from both Ministers—a bi...
Lord Brennan of Canton | 507 c798 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his generosity in giving way. His motion calls for more trai...
Lord Willetts | 507 c798 (Link to this contribution) I will give way again to the Minister.
Rob Marris | 507 c798 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Willetts | 507 c798 (Link to this contribution) We have clearly identified 300,000 places over two years—a combination of apprenticeships and traini...
Speaker | 507 c792 (Link to this contribution) I advise the House that Mr. Speaker has selected the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister.
Lord Willetts | 507 c792 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House welcomes the contribution made to the economy and civic life by unive...
Barry Sheerman | 507 c792 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman mentions being tendentious. Does he agree that the history of higher education ov...
Lord Willetts | 507 c792-3 (Link to this contribution) We were concerned about the effect of fees on participation, although so far it looks as though fees...
William Cash | 507 c793 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making an extremely good start. In the light of the recession and the vital import...
Lord Willetts | 507 c793 (Link to this contribution) I completely agree with my hon. Friend. Our approach is a properly balanced one, whereby those young...
Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton | 507 c793 (Link to this contribution) May I commend the work of the Open university? Does my hon. Friend accept that more and more young p...
Lord Willetts | 507 c793 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and one of the things that we very much hope will emerge from Lord Browne's inquiry into the fu...
Andrew Murrison | 507 c793 (Link to this contribution) May I congratulate my hon. Friend on including in the motion a mention of higher and further educati...
Lord Willetts | 507 c794 (Link to this contribution) The Chairman of the Children, Schools and Families Committee is very active; I will give way to him ...
Lord Willetts | 507 c794 (Link to this contribution) One area where the current pressures are most severe is in the delivery of higher education in furth...
Brian Iddon | 507 c795 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is talking about a discount of 10 per cent., and comparing that with the Australi...
Lord Willetts | 507 c795-6 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised by some of the claims made by millennium plus, because our estimates are extremely ca...
Frank Dobson | 507 c794 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not agree, as a man allegedly of great intellect, that there has been a mass...
Lord Willetts | 507 c794-5 (Link to this contribution) What has happened is that the Government have redefined apprenticeships, so that level 2 qualificati...
Barry Sheerman | 507 c794 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman and I share a love of history—I know that he is very much an admirer of Michael O...
Lord Willetts | 507 c794 (Link to this contribution) The Chairman of the Select Committee has just revealed his guilty secret to the House, which is that...
Lord Willetts | 507 c796 (Link to this contribution) I look forward to hearing the hon. Gentleman's response to that.
Clive Efford | 507 c796 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman cited the Australian scheme. Will he confirm that it has proved unpopular and has...
Lord Willetts | 507 c796-7 (Link to this contribution) I do not think it is true that the Australian scheme is unpopular. What we are talking about is indi...
Clive Efford | 507 c797 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman cannot get away with what he has said. The Australian scheme is not generating th...
Lord Willetts | 507 c797 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept what the hon. Gentleman says. We looked carefully at the Australian scheme, the New ...
Speaker | 507 c797 (Link to this contribution) Order. It is for the hon. Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts) to decide to whom he will give way.
Lord Willetts | 507 c797 (Link to this contribution) I am trying to make some progress, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will give way to the hon. Member for Elth...
Stephen Williams | 507 c803 (Link to this contribution) If science is so important to the Government—I understand that the Minister cannot comment on instit...
Speaker | 507 c836 (Link to this contribution) I ask the Serjeant at Arms to investigate the delay in the No Lobby.
Christopher Fraser | 507 c807 (Link to this contribution) With all respect to the Minister, I asked a perfectly civil and polite question about those students...
Linda Gilroy | 507 c809 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way, and I am sure that he is looking at future funding poss...
David Lammy | 507 c804 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that we have made progress, that we have reached 43 per cent. and that he o...
Christopher Fraser | 507 c808 (Link to this contribution) What does the Minister say to them?
Stephen Williams | 507 c814 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is quite right: there are lots of questions that the Conservatives have yet to an...
David Lammy | 507 c803 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows that, as I just said, the Government do not run physics and chemistry depar...
Lord Willetts | 507 c792 (Link to this contribution) I am just getting into my stride, but I will give way to the Chairman of the Select Committee.
Subjects
Applications Apprentices Finance Higher education Qualifications Loans Standards Universities Training Students
Link
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