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Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Wednesday, 8 December 2010, in the House of Lords.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill. Lords committee stage debate (3rd day). Clause 1 amendments debated. Clause 1 as amended agreed. Clause 2 amendments under consideration.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
723 c194-251, c264-90 
Session
2010-12
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Bach | 723 c220-1 (Link to this contribution) That, of course, is the danger with the referendum in the first place perhaps. The right to vote is ...
Lord Norton of Louth | 723 c221 (Link to this contribution) I refer back to the earlier point made by the noble Lord. He said that he does not have a view eithe...
Show all contributions (232)
Lord Bach | 723 c220 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is another interesting debate that was started by my noble friend. The amendment does...
Lord Norton of Louth | 723 c220 (Link to this contribution) It strikes me that there is an interesting argument here. If this is put in a referendum, the sort o...
Lord Norton of Louth | 723 c220 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall not repeat my earlier points about whether it should be included in the Bill, whic...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 723 c219 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, unusually, I disagree completely with the noble Lord, Lord Snape. I believe that forcing p...
Lord Tyler | 723 c219 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am always struck by the eloquence of the noble Lord, Lord Snape, but what might happen i...
Lord Snape | 723 c218 (Link to this contribution) 29: Clause 1, page 1, line 11, at end insert— ““( ) There is to be another question on the ballot pa...
Lord Snape | 723 c218-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fear that this is yet another amendment that may rouse the ire of the noble Lord, Lord N...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 723 c215 (Link to this contribution) I would not follow my noble friend along that very controversial path, but perhaps I may make a broa...
Lord Grenfell | 723 c215 (Link to this contribution) I wish to express my support for the amendment of my noble friend, Lord Snape. This may be an esoter...
Lord Rooker | 723 c215 (Link to this contribution) I was not going to speak on the amendment but perhaps I could add to the debate by referring to the ...
Lord Norton of Louth | 723 c215-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it strikes me that the amendment prompts three questions. The first is whether we should c...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c216-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been a very interesting debate. It is one that is had practically every time we h...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c217 (Link to this contribution) The main reason why I shall disappoint the noble Lord, Lord Snape, is precisely the one that we have...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c217 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the noble Lord may not have the answer, but could he write to me with the results ...
Lord Monson | 723 c214 (Link to this contribution) If one is thinking of opting for weekend voting, it would be preferable to choose a Sunday rather th...
Lord Snape | 723 c217-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords on all sides of the House for participating in this debate. I agree wit...
Lord Rooker | 723 c211 (Link to this contribution) With respect to Amendment 24, in view of the clarity of the Leader’s speech this afternoon, as a rew...
Lord Rooker | 723 c210 (Link to this contribution) 24: Clause 1, page 1, line 10, leave out ““““alternative vote”””” and insert ““““single transferable...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 723 c213 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I remember the words of the noble Lord, Lord Snape, in an earlier debate when he said, ““I...
Lord Wills | 723 c213-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am very pleased to follow the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, on this and to s...
Lord Snape | 723 c211 (Link to this contribution) 28: Clause 1, page 1, line 11, at end insert— ““( ) There is to be another question on the ballot pa...
Lord Snape | 723 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) A lot of the debate that has taken place so far on this Bill has been about the referendum itself, a...
Lord Wills | 723 c214 (Link to this contribution) I had sat down, but I shall briefly respond to the noble Lord’s question. He asked what was wrong wi...
Lord Renton of Mount Harry | 723 c214 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, I am rather surprised by what he is saying. I apologise for the fac...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c208-9 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to come back at this stage, but the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, is sitting next to the ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c208 (Link to this contribution) I like to think that I have made an authoritative statement from the Dispatch Box as to what the Gov...
Lord Grocott | 723 c209 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is no use saying that those who are in favour of the proposal will deploy whatever argu...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c209 (Link to this contribution) Those who are in favour of the system will no doubt be responsible for what they say during the cour...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c206-8 (Link to this contribution) That might shock some of my noble friends. However, I was astonished to read in this morning’s Guard...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c209 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on this Front Bench we are entirely tied by collective responsibility and my noble friend ...
Lord Wills | 723 c209 (Link to this contribution) Exactly what are the circumstances in which someone could be elected with less than the 50 per cent ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c209-10 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the circumstance is when most people who vote express only a first preference and do not t...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c204 (Link to this contribution) These points should be answered because this is a debate on the technical working of the system. Res...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c204 (Link to this contribution) Can I come back on the noble Lord again?
Lord Greaves | 723 c204 (Link to this contribution) The problem did not arise to the same extent. I do not have the figures for the London mayoral elect...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c203-4 (Link to this contribution) I just want to correct the noble Lord. The reason why that happened in the first mayoral elections i...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c206 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this is an important debate on an issue that might figure in the course of the referendum ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c206 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much admire the way in which the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, introduced the ...
Lord Greaves | 723 c204-5 (Link to this contribution) I am talking about the supplementary vote and trying to point out why that is a bad system. However,...
Lord Howarth of Newport | 723 c205 (Link to this contribution) In Amendment 25, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, has offered a lifeboat to the coalition, jus...
Lord Rooker | 723 c201 (Link to this contribution) No, as my noble friend explained in even greater detail. However many candidates there are on the li...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c202 (Link to this contribution) On that point, will the noble Lord confirm that in the cases that he referred to the successful cand...
Lord Greaves | 723 c201-2 (Link to this contribution) This is the first time that I have spoken on the Bill. I apologise that I did not speak at Second Re...
Lord Greaves | 723 c202 (Link to this contribution) They would, yes. However, whether they would have stood and whether it would have resulted in their ...
Lord Greaves | 723 c202-3 (Link to this contribution) That is certainly how I look at election systems. We have here a system that is bad in principle but...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c203 (Link to this contribution) On that matter, again, if the noble Lord is comparing the system with AV and alluding to what he mig...
Lord Greaves | 723 c203 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to talk about AV; I want to talk about the supplementary vote. However, the main votes...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c194 (Link to this contribution) 22: Clause 1, page 1, line 10, leave out ““the”” and insert ““an””
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c194-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall also speak to Amendment 25. In moving this amendment, I need to step back, without...
Lord Rooker | 723 c199-201 (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend in this amendment. I do not want to repeat what I have said in previous de...
Lord Lamont of Lerwick | 723 c201 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, a question. Under the supplementary system, would it ...
Lord Dubs | 723 c290 (Link to this contribution) I am really grateful, because I was about to say, when the noble Lord said that an issue is worth de...
Lord Rooker | 723 c289 (Link to this contribution) My name is not on the other amendment. This amendment is to remove part of Clause 2. I shall leave i...
Lord McNally | 723 c289 (Link to this contribution) There will be other times. Now is not the right place for this debate. I understand why the issue ha...
Lord Dubs | 723 c290 (Link to this contribution) I shall respond only briefly. First, I have to say to the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, that I have hea...
Lord McNally | 723 c290 (Link to this contribution) I encouraged the noble Lord keep on with his campaign. As they say where I come from, a nod is a goo...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 723 c289 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was wondering whether the noble Lord was going to respond to my question on why, having ...
Lord McNally | 723 c289-90 (Link to this contribution) It is because I was intending to reply to Amendment 36A, which is in a later group, and deals partic...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c276 (Link to this contribution) My opinion of the noble Lord, Lord Shutt of Greetland, deteriorates dramatically in the light of tha...
Lord Greaves | 723 c275 (Link to this contribution) I reveal that my noble friend was actually passing on a piece of scurrilous gossip which I would nev...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c277 (Link to this contribution) I am quite sure that the Reading Clerk will therefore go to the Welsh question and wonder what it is...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 723 c276 (Link to this contribution) There are 600,000 people who speak Welsh. It is the first language of many hundreds of thousands of ...
Lord Rooker | 723 c274 (Link to this contribution) Churchill did not want AV. As the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, told us, Churchill is on record as doing ...
Lord Tyler | 723 c274 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, because he has pre-empted the question that I was about...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c275 (Link to this contribution) What a rip-roaringly good debate it has been. Only the noble Lord, Lord Tyler, who keeps putting wor...
Lord Tyler | 723 c275 (Link to this contribution) I have to tell the noble Lord that Churchill was a supporter of electoral reform when he was a Liber...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c277-8 (Link to this contribution) I think it is pretty clear that the Electoral Commission is very dissatisfied with the way that we h...
Lord Rooker | 723 c277 (Link to this contribution) When I saw the note from the Electoral Commission, which it copied to many of us moving the amendmen...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c279-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is for the noble and learned Lord to apologise as to why it was in his own manifesto. W...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c279 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord could express his view as to how disappointed he was that the Conservative ma...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c279 (Link to this contribution) I am wholly in favour of us having a referendum because I am in favour of people having a choice and...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c278 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord is prying into my personal views, will he tell the House his personal view on a re...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c278 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it has been a useful and interesting debate. We have covered a lot of ground. A lot of dif...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c278 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord should say it again. It is up to the noble Lord whether he wants to answer these poin...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c280 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry. The noble Lord is in favour of the system he dreamt up over dinner. It is the noble Lord...
Lord Norton of Louth | 723 c273 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend’s argument is based on the premise that people are aware that under a different syst...
Lord Tyler | 723 c273 (Link to this contribution) That is what happens under the present system. The present system is totally inadequate in that resp...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c273 (Link to this contribution) Let me hit the flaw in the noble Lord’s argument. He is presuming that the remotest preference cast ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c273 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, if the noble Lord looks at the Scottish results to which I referred, he will see that the av...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c273 (Link to this contribution) On one of the noble Lord’s examples, trade unions, there was recently an election in the Unite trade...
Lord Tyler | 723 c273 (Link to this contribution) The empirical evidence, of course, is the way in which so many other elections, outwith elections to...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c274 (Link to this contribution) I would like to help my noble friend. It is not the position of the Labour Party that there cannot b...
Lord Tyler | 723 c274 (Link to this contribution) All the evidence from Professor John Curtice, who was mentioned earlier, is that AV is less likely t...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 723 c274 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble friend accept that if we move to an AV system, we are more likely to have coalition go...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c283 (Link to this contribution) Should I understand from the warm embrace that the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, has given to the no...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c283 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Tyler makes a great point. Six months ago, that was the view of the Labour Part...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c283 (Link to this contribution) The one thing, I am afraid, that the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, cannot get away with is that he h...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c283 (Link to this contribution) Not just today, but on the last time that we met—and, I expect, the time before that—I laid out the ...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 723 c285 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak only very briefly on this. Being one of the newest Members of this House, I h...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 723 c285-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am a bit troubled by the proposals of the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, because I am a passiona...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c283-4 (Link to this contribution) No, it was a statement. Clause 1 agreed. Clause 2 : Entitlement to vote in the referendum Amendme...
Lord Dubs | 723 c284 (Link to this contribution) 34: Clause 2, page 2, line 10, leave out paragraph (b)
Lord Dubs | 723 c284-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I give an undertaking that, although Amendment 34 is relevant and important, it has nothin...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c288 (Link to this contribution) The Cabinet Secretary would not have had any vote on legislation, but he might have had an even more...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 723 c287 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble and learned Lord accept that the Cabinet Secretary would not have had any vote on leg...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c287 (Link to this contribution) I disagree with what my noble friend Lord Grocott says for two reasons. First, there are other peopl...
Lord Grocott | 723 c287 (Link to this contribution) Does my noble and learned friend acknowledge that it is an enormous privilege—obviously, it is not a...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c286-7 (Link to this contribution) How much I admire the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, for his courage at every stage of this Bill. This i...
Lord McNally | 723 c289 (Link to this contribution) It is because we judge that to be a fair and logical approach. As I said, whichever way we had done ...
Lord McNally | 723 c288-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have been stripped and ready for action for three days. As the Leader of the House has p...
Lord Rooker | 723 c289 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord genuinely mean that? I regret losing my vote, but I agree more with the noble Lo...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c288 (Link to this contribution) I would be equally interested in what the Deputy Leader of the House has to say.
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c280 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that is a great question because I find myself in exactly the same position. I am also in ...
Baroness Adams of Craigielea | 723 c280 (Link to this contribution) Can the Leader of the House help me on a point? At the moment, my household falls into two different...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c281 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am assuming that they will still vote in the same polling booth, although there may be d...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c281 (Link to this contribution) The Leader has given a number of reasons why this AV system was chosen and has argued the case very ...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c281 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord McNally said, ““Ask Nicholas Clegg””. I have no idea why he said that; I suppos...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c281 (Link to this contribution) Earlier in the debate—I have sat through most of it, listening carefully—the Leader of the House sai...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c281 (Link to this contribution) I have not asked him; I have not got a line on it; and it is not a question that will trouble me muc...
Lord Grocott | 723 c282 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Leader of the House, who has been very patient and good humoured. However, perh...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c282 (Link to this contribution) That is a good question. The committee on which the noble Baroness the Leader of the Opposition sits...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c282 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to press this, but the supplementary vote system is a form of AV that does not compel peo...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c282 (Link to this contribution) We made two decisions. First, we made a decision about AV, and I have given the reasons why we thoug...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c282 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord shows a consistent admiration for the importance of the referendum and allowing the p...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c283 (Link to this contribution) The discussions took place before we came into Government. They were part of the agreement on becomi...
Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 723 c283 (Link to this contribution) Let me put it more simply. In the Government’s view, why is the system in Clause 9 better than the s...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c282 (Link to this contribution) I have explained all the reasons, not the least of which is that the House of Commons united around ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c282 (Link to this contribution) When these matters were being considered in the coalition talks, there must have been a point at whi...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c283 (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord is aware, it was a Conservative Member of Parliament, Mr Christopher Chope, who mo...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c283 (Link to this contribution) In a series of votes in the House of Commons, Members of the other place united behind this system a...
Lord Tyler | 723 c283 (Link to this contribution) Can my noble friend tell the House whether the Government took cognisance of the fact that the previ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c246 (Link to this contribution) I think that there is a direct connection because the coalition is comprised of two elements, one of...
Lord Greaves | 723 c246 (Link to this contribution) I promise that this is the last time that I will intervene—I am just getting the noble Lord back for...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) When I asked Professor Curtice for all the results that could be identified, he said that, because o...
Lord Greaves | 723 c245 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord tell us to what extent he is cherry-picking the results? Would the same sort of ...
Lord Rennard | 723 c246 (Link to this contribution) We seem to be drifting from the referendum. Has the noble Lord forgotten the recent example in Oldha...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c245 (Link to this contribution) Being a Welshman, I do not know how to pronounce these names. However, 43 per cent of second prefere...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 723 c245 (Link to this contribution) We who have campaigned in such elections, including in another one in East Ayrshire in my former con...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c245 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend referred to an election in his former constituency, for which I have the results her...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 723 c250-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the arguments about AV, SV and STV are fascinating arguments that embrace ethics, philosop...
Lord Grocott | 723 c264-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was rudely interrupted by the usual channels, who adjourned the House just as I was on t...
Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 723 c251 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord, Lord Grocott. We have an unusual situation here in...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c246 (Link to this contribution) That is not something that I condone, but it is insignificant compared to what happened and to what ...
Lord Lipsey | 723 c246-8 (Link to this contribution) It is very tempting for me to think that, having heard the formidable argument put forward by my nob...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 723 c248-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I failed to contribute to the Second Reading debate on this Bill and have not had the oppo...
Lord Garel-Jones | 723 c249 (Link to this contribution) Would my noble friend be prepared to go a little further and say that one of the inevitable conseque...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 723 c249 (Link to this contribution) I totally agree with my noble friend. Indeed, you could argue that the coalition agreement drawn up ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 723 c249 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely with the noble Lord that coalitions are likely to arise almost inevitably from a ...
Lord Grocott | 723 c267 (Link to this contribution) I have to admit in the privacy of this Chamber that I did my very best to stop them. However, you do...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c267 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the noble Lord will remind us that in 1997 there was only one system. By 2010, there wer...
Lord Grocott | 723 c266 (Link to this contribution) We are spending millions of pounds on dealing with, as far as the public are concerned, a non-existe...
Lord Grocott | 723 c266 (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours asked which AV system, but no doubt there is a specialist MA c...
Lord Grocott | 723 c266 (Link to this contribution) That is very wise. I bet that he comes out of his course sensible on Lords reform.
Lord Tyler | 723 c266 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should say that my daughter also studied at Hull, but she is absolutely staunchly in fav...
Lord Grocott | 723 c265 (Link to this contribution) As we know, my noble friend is a reformer who supports change, and he is honest enough to acknowledg...
Lord Bach | 723 c266 (Link to this contribution) I agree absolutely with my noble friend, and I think that my noble friend Lord Hunt of Kings Heath d...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c265 (Link to this contribution) On that question of understanding, when I asked MPs how AV worked, the great majority did not know o...
Lord Grocott | 723 c269 (Link to this contribution) I am not surprised. During the time in office of the previous Labour Government, the national media ...
Lord Grocott | 723 c267-8 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my noble friend Baroness Adams. I would just like to gently remind my good fri...
Lord Greaves | 723 c268-9 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord does me the privilege of talking about me the moment I walk into the Chamber. Can I j...
Lord Grocott | 723 c269 (Link to this contribution) I think that is a very honourable and honest thing to say. I was not so much referring to what he ha...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c269 (Link to this contribution) I was listening to a ““News at Ten”” bulletin the other day and there was a discussion about AV. Aga...
Lord Grocott | 723 c267 (Link to this contribution) He is senior management, but not top management. Perhaps he should bring back a Bill that said, ““Le...
Lord Rooker | 723 c267 (Link to this contribution) Here is where my noble friend and I part. The additional member system in Scotland gave, for the fir...
Lord Tyler | 723 c272-3 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is simply taking a question that I have not posed and which I do not intend to claim....
Lord Grocott | 723 c270 (Link to this contribution) I would not have taken so long if I had not had so many interesting interventions. I am afraid that ...
Lord Rooker | 723 c271 (Link to this contribution) I missed the first part of the debate on Clause 1 and I regret that. The noble Lord gave the example...
Lord Tyler | 723 c271 (Link to this contribution) That is not true, because in other parts of the country the turnout was not 83 per cent. It was 83 p...
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town | 723 c270-1 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord could explain that the importance of that day—which I, too, remember well—was...
Lord Tyler | 723 c270 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, has been rather unfair on his noble friend Lord Lipsey, who ...
Lord Tyler | 723 c272 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am not saying that AV would automatically mean that every Member of the other House woul...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 723 c272 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. I want to take him back to a point which I heard him...
Lord Tyler | 723 c272 (Link to this contribution) It is obviously true that if the elector chooses not to vote tactically, they do not have to. But it...
Lord Grocott | 723 c224 (Link to this contribution) As one who was a foot-soldier when my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, were exerting ...
Lord Snape | 723 c224 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to argue with the noble Lord’s view of what took place 30-odd years ago, but that was ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 723 c223 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is right about the happy times that we had together in the Whips’ Office in the House...
Lord Snape | 723 c223 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords on both sides of your Lordships’ House for their participation in the d...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c222-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is always fascinating in these debates to discover new information. We were treated to ...
Lord Bach | 723 c222 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my noble friend that this is an important point. Various answers have been given over t...
Lord Rooker | 723 c222 (Link to this contribution) This raises an interesting issue for Part 2 of the Bill. If, as I have always understood, it is lega...
Lord Bach | 723 c222 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for telling the Committee that, but my feeling is that it is, strict...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 723 c222 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am glad that the noble Lord has asked his question about compulsory registration because...
Lord Bach | 723 c221 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was careful to say that it was the Front Bench of the Official Opposition that had no of...
Lord Snape | 723 c224 (Link to this contribution) We had better leave it at that then. I referred to the noble Lords, Lord Hamilton and Lord Norton. ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c224 (Link to this contribution) 31: Clause 1, page 2, line 4, at end insert— ““( ) In Scotland, a Gaelic version of the question is ...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c224-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I move Amendment 31, standing in my name and in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Lidde...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 723 c226-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, not for the first time I rise in Committee to support my noble friend Lord Foulkes of Cumn...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c228 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord tell us what role he played in this when he was Secretary of State for Scotland?
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 723 c228 (Link to this contribution) I do not recollect that this legislation was before any House of Parliament when I was the Secretary...
Lord Palmer | 723 c228-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Browne, really could not have made a better case for the constitution...
Lord Anderson of Swansea | 723 c229-30 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it is not a question of numbers, although my noble friend Lord Browne was perhaps tempting...
Lord Elystan-Morgan | 723 c230 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I would be serving the cause of pan-Celticism badly were I not to say that I wholeheartedl...
Lord MacKenzie of Culkein | 723 c231-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I, too, support the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Foulkes. Indeed, I suppo...
Lord McAvoy | 723 c230-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall make one or two points briefly. My noble friend Lord Browne of Ladyton mentioned t...
Lord Bach | 723 c233 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I will speak very briefly. We have heard very powerful arguments for the amendment. We on ...
Lord Mackay of Clashfern | 723 c232 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Elystan-Morgan, talked about the Welsh speaking of Welsh as ““our lan...
Lord Boyd of Duncansby | 723 c232-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I just want to make one short point. This amendment would sit with the rest of the Bill, b...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c233 (Link to this contribution) I think my noble friend will also remember that the question for the Welsh referendum was not put in...
Lord Bach | 723 c233 (Link to this contribution) Again, I am afraid that I cannot remember, but no doubt the Leader of the House will be able to help...
Lord Tyler | 723 c233 (Link to this contribution) I know that the noble Lord wants to be brief, but I put a question to him to which I genuinely do no...
Lord Bach | 723 c233 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot remind the House because I do not know the answer. However, I think that there is...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c234 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this has been, not unsurprisingly, a most interesting and useful debate. The ideas that un...
Lord Strathclyde | 723 c234-5 (Link to this contribution) I am not saying that the idea that underlies this amendment is without merit: simply that it is the ...
Lord Browne of Ladyton | 723 c234 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Leader of the House, and do not rise to defend myself. I do not feel that my re...
Lord Greaves | 723 c240 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord accept that I do all my own research, as I am a poor, pauper Peer?
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c240-2 (Link to this contribution) Forgive me. We then have this major problem of the electorate’s understanding of the proposed syste...
Lord Rennard | 723 c242 (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord calculate from those figures how many of those by-elections would have been won b...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c235-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the leader of the House, in particular for his closing remark. However, I intend to...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c238-40 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, this clause, establishing the referendum, sets the question. This is probably my last inte...
Lord Greaves | 723 c240 (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord not agree that all single-member constituency contests are majoritarian contests...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c240 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is asking me to reopen the debate that we had on the Floor in a series of interventio...
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c243 (Link to this contribution) I am slightly perplexed by that argument, which seems to point in the direction of second and furthe...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c243 (Link to this contribution) To be frank, I do not understand that either. However, I asked that question and I understand that i...
Lord Wallace of Tankerness | 723 c243 (Link to this contribution) I am not entirely sure why the count had to be electronic to get the information on where the transf...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c242-3 (Link to this contribution) That is not the question. We are dealing here with those who argue that a candidate should need 50 p...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c244 (Link to this contribution) However, we are measuring the efficacy of the system. We want the system to work. We want it to make...
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock | 723 c244 (Link to this contribution) I hope that my noble friend is not casting any aspersions on the good people of Doon Valley, whom I ...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c243 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is correct and has hit the point right on the head. Voters often use their second pre...
Lord Greaves | 723 c244 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is now going back to the supplementary vote. The whole purport of what I said earlier...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c243 (Link to this contribution) Sorry, I missed what the noble Lord said.
Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 723 c243 (Link to this contribution) The argument that the noble Lord is advancing suggests that the use of second and further preference...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 723 c219-20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I very much support the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart: and the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, on his...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c210 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall briefly comment on the interventions. I say to my noble friend Lord Rooker that we...
Lord Rooker | 723 c208 (Link to this contribution) The Leader of the House is deploying arguments that he has not used so far in this debate. He is to ...
Lord Greaves | 723 c203 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will have plenty of opportunities to respond. However, I will give way.
Lord Campbell-Savours | 723 c244 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that they are the crème de la crème and the very best, but I am just trying to help them. ...
Lord Hamilton of Epsom | 723 c249-50 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, that is another argument. I have been agreeably surprised by the achievements of this coalit...
Lord Rennard | 723 c270 (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord is so convinced by the strength of his arguments over the past 21 minutes, why is ...
Lord Tyler | 723 c273-4 (Link to this contribution) As was pointed out only a few minutes ago, the noble Lord was very selective in the ones that he quo...
Baroness Adams of Craigielea | 723 c280-1 (Link to this contribution) It is not a unique situation to the noble Lord and I. It affects all the people in these constituenc...
Baroness Adams of Craigielea | 723 c267 (Link to this contribution) I have to tell the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, that the additional member system does not work. We may ...
Lord Browne of Belmont | 723 c272 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the noble Lord. He is very patient with me. Other Members of his party ha...
Subjects
Alternative vote Ballots Administration General elections Referendums Voting methods Scots Gaelic language Voting rights Welsh language
Legislation
Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill 2010-12
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk