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Flood and Water Management Bill

The right hon. Gentleman makes a fair point. Some of the figures put forward by Thames Water, which I can share with him another time, suggest that the number affected is a small percentage of the overall total. That means that if the money was to be recovered through other people's water bills, the increase for everybody else would be miniscule in practice, so the slightly poor would not have to pay an undue amount in order to subsidise the very poor. However, he makes a fair point. The key issue with new clause 22 is the need to put the legality of social tariffs beyond doubt. While we have the Bill before us—what the Minister said is quite true: we might not see another water Bill for some years—new clause 22 is a timely amendment. New clauses 16 and 17 cover issues that we discussed in Committee and on which the hon. Member for Stroud (Mr. Drew) had Liberal Democrat support. The new clauses would ensure that the management of flood risk and water management are sustainable not only in environmental terms, but in social and economic terms, and that we have the skill sets to maintain the duties that we are creating in the Bill. These and many other amendments have dealt with Ofwat's remit. I note and welcome the Minister's acknowledgement that Ofwat's remit needs comprehensive re-examination. That view is shared by all political parties. Whatever the outcome of the general election, it will be an important issue for the new Government to address. Time is not on our side, so while we have the Bill before us, it seems sensible to make these amendments. I hope the Government will accept them, despite the Minister's comments so far. In the growing spirit of cross-party solidarity, I welcome new clause 18. We have argued consistently for the reform of Ofwat's remit, particularly to reflect some of the issues that are addressed in the new clause, which include sustainability, water and energy efficiency, and leakage control not simply as a function of the economics of water companies, but as a desirable end in itself. That is a helpful amendment and again we are happy to support it. On our amendment 22, I know that hon. Members in all parts of the House were concerned about the so-called rain tax afflicting groups such as churches and Scout organisations, and that everybody wanted the problem resolved. The Bill has gone a long way towards that by introducing concessionary charging schemes for community groups. The discussion was helpful in raising the issue of social tariffs generally and making it clear that we could bring those into the Bill as a whole, but as the hon. Member for Vale of York said, it has highlighted an anomaly between two sets of clauses. In new clause 22, water companies must have regard to ministerial guidance, and subsection (5) subjects Ofwat to the same regime, yet in clause 43, which refers to the concessionary charging schemes for community organisations, there is no mention of Ofwat at all. That has raised legitimate concerns from some of the organisations affected by the so-called rain tax issue. The Scout Association wrote to me:""Ofwat is specified as having oversight of the process, but the Scouts believe that Ofwat needs clear guidance on the face of the bill from Government as to its oversight of concessionary schemes. Ofwat's track record in interpreting existing guidance, and its inability to conduct a regulatory impact assessment before recommending site-area charging, has engendered significant mistrust in their regulatory competence"—" the Scout Association's words, not mine. It goes on:""Therefore, we believe that either through passing this amendment, or giving other assurances at Report Stage, the Government ought to let community groups know that Ofwat will be in charge of administering all concessionary schemes as a matter of course."" I note the Minister's comments. He said that there was a need for confidence in site area charging and that there was a clear responsibility on undertakers to pay attention to the need for concessionary schemes, but his comments still seem to fall short of an explicit reassurance that that will be part and parcel of Ofwat's role, and that we will not find that ministerial guidance is not quite explicit enough, and that water companies try to introduce a concessionary scheme explicitly to address the needs of community groups but find Ofwat quibbling about it or standing in their way. We are close to having that assurance, and I am sure the Minister can find a form of words that might satisfy us. We will take his word on it—I am tempted to use the phrase, "Scout's honour." If he finds the right form of words, we will not press amendment 22 to a Division.