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Flood and Water Management Bill

The answer is a straightforward yes. I was pleased to have a very productive meeting with my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud and members from Unison. I also met friends from the GMB with my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton (Linda Gilroy) and led a delegation with my right hon. Friend the Member for Makerfield (Mr. McCartney). We dealt with issues to do with skills within the utility sector and throughout the water sector. One of the problems with the water sector is that it is fragmented in comparison with the energy sector, for example, so there is a good role for somebody in bringing people together. That is why I want to seek a meeting with my hon. Friend the Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships and Consumer Affairs to talk about how we can lend our weight to trying to get an all-encompassing approach, right down the supply chain and across the industry, so that companies do not have to struggle with a more piecemeal and short-term approach to skills development. EU Skills has been working with members of Water UK to develop a detailed and comprehensive work force planning tool. The key skills issue for the sector is the ageing work force; 11 per cent. are due to retire in the current regulated period, and increasing numbers in subsequent regulatory periods. We all have a role to play, and I will certainly play mine. My hon. Friend the Member for Stroud talked about the price review and about trying to flatten out some of the decisions on investment and, linked to that, skills and training. For the first time ever, we have the five-year PR09 in the context of a 25-year strategic direction statement to consider the long term as well. DEFRA and Treasury Ministers have encouraged companies to bring forward their expenditure early in the PR09 process, where that is in the interests of customers, in order to flatten out the traditional wave shape that we have sometimes seen. Let us not forget that PR09 allows for more than £22 billion of expenditure to 2015; that is good for jobs and leads to a need for skilled workers. In his introductory remarks, the right hon. Member for Wokingham expressed support for competition in the water industry to drive prices down. Many issues arise in a purely competitive approach. First, we are in a devolved situation. The right hon. Gentleman is a former Wales Office Minister, as I am, and he will know that Welsh Assembly Government Ministers have a key role to play, as does Welsh Water—Dwr Cymru—which has a somewhat different structure from other such companies. Although it is not without flaw, it is generally perceived in Wales to be a good model of a mutual approach towards water utility provision. The right hon. Gentleman also talked about the transfer of water. That is not an unfeasible engineering solution, but we need to take into account its carbon impact if long distances are involved. As he rightly said, sustainable water management, among other things, might well be a good idea, but let us do it within the review of the full role of Ofwat. To pick up the right hon. Gentleman's earlier point, I have had inspiration on where provision already exists on undertakers. Section 94 of the Water Industry Act 1991 requires undertakers to drain their areas appropriately, and Ofwat is required to ensure that they are able to fulfil those functions. There is also public health legislation and nuisance legislation, both of which would be relevant to powers to prevent and redress instances of local foul sewerage pollution. Having been on the receiving end of overflowing sewers, as I said in Committee, I have a great deal of sympathy with that issue. I turn to the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton. First, I welcome her work and that of other hon. Members in lobbying on the whole range of issues raised by Cave and Walker, in the south-west and more broadly. I hope that an additional Bill can be brought forward very soon, but we need to take this opportunity to act as well. We have made it clear that we will consult fully on Walker, but we have also already asked Ofwat to examine the recommendations in the report, not least in relation to the south-west, and to advise Ministers accordingly. I look forward to a rescheduled meeting with the Prime Minister soon, with my hon. Friend and other colleagues. As she rightly said, we need to find a solution to the problem in the south-west. Anna Walker has given us some useful signposts and pointed squarely to where the problem arose. It could have been sorted right at the beginning. My hon. Friend mentioned the long-term impact, and the 25-year long-term planning approach that we now have is a useful way forward. My hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith), alongside other Welsh colleagues, has been assiduous in lobbying to ensure that many of the measures in the Bill are also applied in Wales. I can confirm that Welsh Assembly Government Ministers will produce the draft guidance there. I hear once again her support for the transfer of private sewers, which is an issue that affects all of us in Wales. The Welsh Assembly Government have taken it forward in a slightly different way from that used in England, as we would expect, but as Welsh MPs we all have a role to play in getting involved in the process and ensuring that our constituents who are the most affected are the first to receive transfer where possible. The only matter on which I will disappoint my hon. Friend is that of whether the guidance can specify how dividends should be shared out. Dividends are a matter for each company, but of course Ofwat, in its overall regulatory role, takes account of the water companies' ability to fulfil their functions within the price-setting mechanism. Within the guidance under the Bill, however, dividends are a matter for the companies.