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Equality Bill

My Lords, many years ago I had the privilege of dealing with aviation and shipping. I welcome the stance taken by my noble friend Lord Rosser today. We have many interests in common. My noble friend may well succeed me as president of the British Airline Pilots Association, a post that I have had for some 29 years. He has done the House a great service today in outlining the position, to which the Minister ought to reply. In my day—I am looking back quite a long time—the shipping industry was rather healthier than it is today. My noble friend Lord Rosser referred to the position in 1980. I ceased to be the Shipping Minister in 1979. At that time, one of the key features of my relationship with the industry was that I was not entirely satisfied to accept only the view of civil servants. I had regular meetings with the ship owners and with the seafarers’ trade unions. In many ways, that is an imperative, which I hope the Minister will say is still practised today. I do not know the present situation. Of course, there were disputes between the seafarers and the ship owners and the Government were left in a rather awkward position. However, as a result of the relationship that a Shipping Minister enjoyed with both sides, they were able to come to a reasonable accommodation, which is all that my noble friend is asking for. I would like to know whether the current Minister with responsibility for shipping has the same sort of relationship that I had at that time. Although there was some improvement in the situation when the Labour Government took office, that improvement has not been sufficient. We rely on our shipping industry and I am sad that, whereas 30,000 people were employed in the industry in 1980, now there are only 9,000. Although, as I said, there have been some improvements on the position that existed before, nobody would proclaim that with satisfaction. I am grateful for the points made by my noble friend today. They are of immense importance not only to the trade unions but to the ship owners of our country and the people who are served thereby.