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Debate and Adjournment debate on Thursday, 7 July 2005, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Reid of Cardowan. The answering member was Marquess of Lothian.

Defence in the World

Debate on a motion for the adjournment on defence in the world.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
436 c471-542 
Session
2005-06
Department
Ministry of Defence
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
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Monday, 10 October 2005
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International Security Assistance Force
Monday, 14 November 2005
Written statements
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Afghanistan: UK Deployments
Monday, 14 November 2005
Written statements
House of Lords
Show all related items (5)
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 436 c542 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind all hon. Members—[Interruption.] Order. May I remind all hon. Members that good ...
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c490-1 (Link to this contribution) I do not have the full details of that and I would not want to answer the hon. Gentleman on that bas...
Show all contributions (124)
Lord Beamish | 436 c490 (Link to this contribution) Any wastage should be stamped on, but was not the right hon. and learned Gentleman a member of a Gov...
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c488-90 (Link to this contribution) No, as the hon. Gentleman would understand if he had listened to what I said. The Government admit t...
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c492 (Link to this contribution) We have made it clear that we want a debate before a final decision is taken. Our motion sets out th...
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c491-2 (Link to this contribution) I am sure, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I speak for the whole House in saying that we entirely underst...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c491 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the right hon. Gentleman and to everyone else in the House, Madam Deputy Speaker. I r...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c494-6 (Link to this contribution) Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I had to think twice about whe...
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c492-4 (Link to this contribution) I read Michael Portillo’s article. He is a very lucid and fluent writer and I understand what persua...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c492 (Link to this contribution) : Has the right hon. Gentleman had the opportunity to discuss in detail with Michael Portillo, the f...
Edward Leigh | 436 c487 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend might have heard me draw the NAO report to the attention of the Sec...
Lord Beamish | 436 c488 (Link to this contribution) : Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c487-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will find that another early-day motion that was tabled recently deplores the fact th...
Adam Ingram | 436 c488 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c488 (Link to this contribution) I will in a moment. It is obvious that if these reductions—
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c488 (Link to this contribution) May I just finish this point? Then, I will certainly give way. If these reductions are to be made, ...
Lord Beamish | 436 c488 (Link to this contribution) Am I picking up correctly the thrust of the right hon. and learned Gentleman’s argument? Is Conserva...
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c488 (Link to this contribution) My predecessor, who did a tremendous job at the Dispatch Box, made it clear on a number of occasions...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c484-5 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. and learned Gentleman says, it may well be the case in Zimbabwe as frustration wit...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c483 (Link to this contribution) Some tasks require multinational activity in which the United States may not want to be involved hea...
James Gray | 436 c483 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has been generous in taking interventions. Will he give us one clear and simp...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c483 (Link to this contribution) I am reluctant to do so because I am aware that I have tested the patience of the House a little. I ...
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c487 (Link to this contribution) I will in a moment. The recent Trafalgar day on the Solent, which I was privileged enough to attend...
Edward Leigh | 436 c487 (Link to this contribution) : Will my right hon. and learned Friend give way?
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c487 (Link to this contribution) I was coming to that. The Secretary of State used the example of the battle of Trafalgar. However, t...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c487 (Link to this contribution) : We heard the Secretary of State say earlier that size does not really matter. Is there an irreduci...
Marquess of Lothian | 436 c485-7 (Link to this contribution) It is quite a long time since the Secretary of State generously thanked me for offering to withdraw ...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 436 c480 (Link to this contribution) I entirely accept what the Secretary of State says about great strides having been made in Afghanist...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c481 (Link to this contribution) On that point—not on the issue that I wanted to raise earlier, because we have moved away from that,...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c480-1 (Link to this contribution) We continually discuss such matters with our colleagues in the United States and the right hon. Gent...
James Gray | 436 c483 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c483 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. He knows that we provided one of those battle groups along with our Fre...
Jeremy Corbyn | 436 c481 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for not being here for the other part of the Secretary of State’s speech because of trav...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c481 (Link to this contribution) I have not seen what was said on that occasion. I do not like to say whether I agree or disagree wit...
John P Smith | 436 c482-3 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the battlegroup formation in Europe will greatly enhance the ca...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c482 (Link to this contribution) I fully understand the circumstances that delayed my hon. Friend today; had they been different, I w...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c499 (Link to this contribution) What a chilling thought: getting into bed with Michael Portillo. I too want a debate, but I do not w...
Jeremy Corbyn | 436 c498 (Link to this contribution) : My hon. Friend will recall that Rob McNamara made a similar plea when he spoke at the non-prolifer...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c498 (Link to this contribution) That good point allows me to return to my old friend Michael Portillo. He has turned into a real all...
Lord Beamish | 436 c498 (Link to this contribution) I am amazed that my hon. Friend is now a bedfellow of a right-wing individual such as Robert McNamar...
Peter Viggers | 436 c496 (Link to this contribution) I am listening to the hon. Gentleman’s speech with great interest. For the sake of completeness and ...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c496-8 (Link to this contribution) I do not doubt that, but Robert McNamara says that more should be done. It is an incontestable fact ...
Lord Beamish | 436 c498 (Link to this contribution) I am listening carefully to what my hon. Friend is saying and it is bringing back all my yesterdays ...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c498 (Link to this contribution) I thought that I was speaking as clearly as I am capable of doing, so it saddens me that my friend, ...
Madeleine Moon | 436 c477 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State will be aware that I met this morning delegations of workers from my Bridgend...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c477-8 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I very much recognise that, and I do not blame my hon. Friend for raising her constituency inte...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c478 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c478-80 (Link to this contribution) I promise my hon. Friend that I will come back to him, but we are now 22 minutes into the debate and...
Mike Hancock | 436 c477 (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy for what the Secretary of State has said and support much of it. How...
Lord Beamish | 436 c477 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend argues that size is not always important, but does he agree that the Government...
Lembit Opik | 436 c475 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c475 (Link to this contribution) May I make a little progress first? I shall take interventions from Opposition Members shortly. I s...
Daniel Kawczynski | 436 c474 (Link to this contribution) I know that some NATO countries—some NATO allies—have played their part very well in supporting us i...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c474-5 (Link to this contribution) There are two issues here. One is the number of multinational forces we have in Iraq, and the number...
Edward Leigh | 436 c476 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has just given a very impressive little speech on the maintenance of British ...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c476-7 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s comments about my nice little speech. I thank him for his nic...
Lembit Opik | 436 c475 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State’s comments are helpful and enlightening. Do his comments mean that we are not...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c476 (Link to this contribution) I never find these hypothetical questions very helpful. We are a sovereign nation, but we have respo...
Lembit Opik | 436 c473-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s generosity. He was beginning to touch on the question of troop with...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c474 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. On the first part, I do not know of anybody who has sai...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c473 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman, although I was about to set out the premise of my approach to...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c473 (Link to this contribution) I shall come back to the subject of Iraq, if hon. Gentlemen wish to wait.
James Gray | 436 c473 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. I know that he will join me in paying tribut...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c473 (Link to this contribution) On the first point, yes, as the hon. Gentleman knows, I do indeed join him in expressing my deep, de...
Speaker | 436 c471 (Link to this contribution) Order. Hon. Members must leave the Chamber quietly.
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c471-2 (Link to this contribution) I want to begin by thanking my opposite number, the right hon. and learned Member for Devizes (Mr. A...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c472-3 (Link to this contribution) I do not blame the hon. Gentleman for intervening—he was not to know that I intend to come back to t...
John Hemming | 436 c532 (Link to this contribution) In that case, I have seven minutes. I share the concerns expressed by Conservative Members about th...
Julian Lewis | 436 c533-7 (Link to this contribution) I wish to start with a quotation from that great public servant, the late Lord Ismay. He served as C...
George Galloway | 436 c542 (Link to this contribution) On that point, Madam Deputy Speaker, I wonder if I might answer—
George Galloway | 436 c542 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. That foul-mouthed, deliberately timed, last-10...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c537 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Julian Lewis | 436 c537 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry but no, I am about to conclude. This debate has taken place on a solemn day in solemn ci...
Adam Ingram | 436 c537-42 (Link to this contribution) All our thoughts are elsewhere at this sad time, and I certainly share the sentiments expressed by a...
Kevin Barron | 436 c542 (Link to this contribution) I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.
Mike Penning | 436 c527-8 (Link to this contribution) Like many colleagues in the House today, I thought long and hard before deciding to contribute to th...
Daniel Kawczynski | 436 c531-2 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that they do a superb job, but the question remains: why Sierra Leone and not other parts ...
John Hemming | 436 c532 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for not being present for the start of the debate. My understanding is that the closing ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 436 c530-1 (Link to this contribution) Well, it does at the moment. Then there are places such as Iraq. No matter what people’s views are ...
Adam Ingram | 436 c531 (Link to this contribution) If I may, I shall explain briefly why we have troops in Sierra Leone and what they are doing there. ...
Daniel Kawczynski | 436 c530 (Link to this contribution) Today’s debate is all about defence in the world. The fact that Britain is a major military power me...
Mike Penning | 436 c528-30 (Link to this contribution) I agree, but it does not always work. It did not work very well when I was there. The British troops...
Speaker | 436 c542 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I ask that, on this day of all days, we bear that in mind?
George Galloway | 436 c543 (Link to this contribution) Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Twice this evening, first from the hon. Member...
George Galloway | 436 c542 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker—
Speaker | 436 c543 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman is challenging my keeping of order in the Chamber. I would ask him and all...
John P Smith | 436 c502-3 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that the restructuring of the battalions is intended to deal with ...
Michael Moore | 436 c499-502 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Pendle (Mr. Prentice) has raised a very important matter, to which I hope to ret...
John P Smith | 436 c504-8 (Link to this contribution) I begin by endorsing the final comments of the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (M...
Michael Moore | 436 c503-4 (Link to this contribution) I fully understand the objectives of the Government’s policy and realise that there may be a time la...
Gordon Prentice | 436 c499 (Link to this contribution) The fleet is going down to 25 ships. Spending a fortune on replacing the boats—the terminology for t...
Peter Viggers | 436 c508-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is arguing very effectively, as he always does. Has he seen the Ministry of Defen...
John P Smith | 436 c509-10 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, partly because I, like the hon. Gentleman, have had military experience. We know, to use...
Speaker | 436 c510 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before I call the next speaker, many hon. Members are seeking catch my eye this afternoon. Un...
Peter Viggers | 436 c510-3 (Link to this contribution) Today’s events have reminded all of us that our defence forces include all the emergency services. I...
Mike Penning | 436 c521 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman clarify a whisper that has come to the House? Did he say elsewhere today tha...
Speaker | 436 c521 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind all hon. Members that we are debating the fourth report of the Defence Committee.
Speaker | 436 c522 (Link to this contribution) Order. I have already asked hon. Members to debate the motion on the Order Paper. Perhaps we would a...
George Galloway | 436 c522 (Link to this contribution) The Minister of State says from a sedentary position that it is more or less right. I take it that t...
Lord Beamish | 436 c524 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
George Galloway | 436 c524 (Link to this contribution) I have to finish; I have gone on for too long. The experts in our own Foreign Office whom we pay to...
Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton | 436 c524-7 (Link to this contribution) Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you—I think—for calling me to speak after the hon. Member for Bethnal Gr...
Mark Hendrick | 436 c518 (Link to this contribution) At the weekend, I met a squaddie who had just returned from Basra and I had a drink with him. He tol...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 436 c517-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr. Jones), who dealt with some problem...
Lord Beamish | 436 c513-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a privilege to contribute to this debate in a week when we respect and remember the veterans w...
Nia Griffith | 436 c519-20 (Link to this contribution) As we remember all those who have been personally affected by today’s tragedy, the overriding messag...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 436 c518-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the general thrust of what the hon. Gentleman says. I am not sure whether it is right t...
George Galloway | 436 c520-1 (Link to this contribution) Indeed; the Cabinet is full of them. That was a time when Britain was facing a Soviet Union and an e...
George Galloway | 436 c520 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Pendle (Mr. Prentice) said that it is a funny old world, and that is certainly t...
Lord Beamish | 436 c520 (Link to this contribution) Some of them are in the Cabinet.
Adam Ingram | 436 c488 (Link to this contribution) I remember the Conservatives’ promise of the £2.7 billion investment. However, it was based on a pro...
Lord Reid of Cardowan | 436 c477 (Link to this contribution) The answer to that one is yes. I agree with my hon. Friend. We are getting through a lot of question...
Jeremy Corbyn | 436 c492 (Link to this contribution) : I am interested that the right hon. Gentleman is looking forward to a debate on the nuclear deterr...
Richard Ottaway | 436 c472 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State has moved seamlessly from Iraq to veterans, and I agree with what he has said...
George Galloway | 436 c522-4 (Link to this contribution) The exchanges that we have just heard are further evidence of my point that in this bubble people ju...
Subjects
Armed forces Defence Army Iraq Navy Military alliances Terrorism USA Afghanistan NATO Defence Committee Islam
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