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Debate on bill on Thursday, 19 October 2006, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness Hodge of Barking. The answering member was Alan Duncan.

Companies Bill (HL)

Companies Bill (HL). Report stage third day concluded. Queens consent and Prince of Wales consent signified. Third reading debate. Agreed on to question. Bill passed with amendments.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
450 c1030-108 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department of Trade and Industry
Legislative stage
Third reading
Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
New schedules
Prince of Wales's consent
Queen's consent
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Justine Greening | 450 c1069 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting point. Companies can engage whichever audit firms they choose. If a company f...
Austin Mitchell | 450 c1069 (Link to this contribution) Does not any limitation of liability—whether introduced by agreement, a cap or some other means—stre...
Show all contributions (124)
Stephen Hesford | 450 c1070 (Link to this contribution) I am following with care my hon. Friend’s argument. In dealing with the big four, however, is it not...
Austin Mitchell | 450 c1069-70 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support the speech made by my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne, Central (Jim...
Vera Baird | 450 c1075 (Link to this contribution) Is not that the same question put by the hon. Member for Cambridge, which I have already answered? [...
Jim Cousins | 450 c1075 (Link to this contribution) My hon. and learned Friend advises the House that some of these issues will be clarified in later re...
Austin Mitchell | 450 c1070-1 (Link to this contribution) That is correct, and the reluctance of even big City law firms to embark on a case against the big f...
David Howarth | 450 c1071-3 (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy with what has just been said by the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (M...
Vera Baird | 450 c1073-4 (Link to this contribution) As before with the modest quip made by my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) ab...
Viscount Hailsham | 450 c1074 (Link to this contribution) I am listening to the hon. and learned Lady, but can she help us with the claims of depositors with ...
Austin Mitchell | 450 c1061-2 (Link to this contribution) There is no doubt that there is a move to restrict the sale of tax advice by auditors to their clien...
Vera Baird | 450 c1061 (Link to this contribution) I follow what my hon. Friend says, and he is right, at least in part. However, I hope that he will a...
Jim Cousins | 450 c1061 (Link to this contribution) I am very glad that my hon. and learned Friend has pointed that out, as the APB’s requirements follo...
Justine Greening | 450 c1068-9 (Link to this contribution) I am conscious of the time, so I shall briefly set out the Opposition’s view on the new clause and a...
Speaker | 450 c1066-7 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 751, in page 264, line 36, ...
Justine Greening | 450 c1062-3 (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting and wide-ranging debate. The hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth) ap...
Jim Cousins | 450 c1066 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 450 c1062 (Link to this contribution) Order. Perhaps I can help the Minister. That is not a good line to pursue, I think.
Vera Baird | 450 c1062 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I do not think that I could cope even if I did try to pursue it. Th...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1080 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Lord Deben | 450 c1079 (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to speak, but I have sat through most of the debates, as I think the right hon. L...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1080-1 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) has been in the Chamber for much of our proc...
Speaker | 450 c1080 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government new clause 59—Penalty for atte...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1081 (Link to this contribution) There has been extensive consultation over the summer with stakeholders. I do not see a need for fur...
James Brokenshire | 450 c1081 (Link to this contribution) The new clauses relate to the old section 212 notice provisions. Where a shareholder or beneficial h...
Vera Baird | 450 c1081 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 450 c1082 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government new clause 84—Power to accept ...
Vera Baird | 450 c1082 (Link to this contribution) The majority of the amendments in this group are drafting amendments and I do not propose to dwell o...
James Brokenshire | 450 c1082 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister said, these are largely drafting, technical and legal changes. We agree that they im...
Vera Baird | 450 c1075-6 (Link to this contribution) We will do our best to ensure that all the interests in such arrangements are consulted as thoroughl...
Speaker | 450 c1077-8 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government new clause 19—Relationship of ...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1077 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 450 c1076 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before we deal with the next group, the House must deal with the Government amendments and ne...
Jim Cousins | 450 c1076 (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting series of exchanges. I am left to puzzle about what my hon. and learned...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1079 (Link to this contribution) I will respond to that point, because I am rather tired of it. [Interruption.] I am delighted to wel...
Speaker | 450 c1079 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I remind Members that the Minister will just be responding to the debate on the new claus...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1078 (Link to this contribution) I know that there are a lot of new clauses in this group, but I hope that they are pretty uncontenti...
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1079 (Link to this contribution) The Government’s approach in this group is acceptable to the Opposition, but I would like to put it ...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1079 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton knows full well what is involved in this group...
Vera Baird | 450 c1049 (Link to this contribution) To prove that someone has behaved recklessly, it is necessary to show that the auditor was aware tha...
Justine Greening | 450 c1048-9 (Link to this contribution) Again, Members seem to misunderstand my argument. Even if the hon. Gentleman is right, is it therefo...
Austin Mitchell | 450 c1049 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady asked for an example. I wonder whether the Department of Trade and Industry report on ...
Justine Greening | 450 c1049 (Link to this contribution) People who are prosecuted are not always found guilty and the provision may well lead to spurious ca...
David Howarth | 450 c1048 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady seems to be following the line of argument that she took in Committee, but at that sta...
Stephen Hesford | 450 c1048 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady’s point about following up matters that would not previously have been pursued applies...
Justine Greening | 450 c1048 (Link to this contribution) In Committee, we argued about the fine legalities of the meaning of the offence in relation to exist...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1050 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has referred twice to remarks that I made at a breakfast meeting at which she and I we...
Justine Greening | 450 c1049 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises another potential problem with the clause as it is drafted, to which I wil...
Justine Greening | 450 c1047 (Link to this contribution) Generally, shareholders and the company would have redress if they felt that an audit had not led to...
Austin Mitchell | 450 c1047 (Link to this contribution) Can the hon. Lady tell us from her experience as a chartered accountant whether any malfeasance by a...
Justine Greening | 450 c1046-7 (Link to this contribution) In speaking to amendments Nos. 439 and 440, I return to the subject of the auditor offence proposed ...
Speaker | 450 c1046 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment No. 440, in page 251, line 32, l...
Justine Greening | 450 c1046 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 439, in page 251, line 28, leave out ‘knowingly or recklessly’ and inser...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1045-6 (Link to this contribution) I hear that, but I have to tell the hon. Gentleman that it provides an interesting comment on the tr...
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1045 (Link to this contribution) I wish that the Minister had listened to what I said. I clearly stated that the amendments were prop...
David Howarth | 450 c1047 (Link to this contribution) Can we clarify the fact that no criminal offence of negligence is involved? There is civil liability...
Justine Greening | 450 c1047 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman makes a contribution to the debate, perhaps he could mention any cases that we...
Mike Weir | 450 c1047 (Link to this contribution) Does not the hon. Lady accept that ““knowingly or recklessly”” is a fairly high level for an auditor...
Austin Mitchell | 450 c1054 (Link to this contribution) It is interesting to get a clear-cut opinion from the hon. Member for Cambridge (David Howarth), who...
Justine Greening | 450 c1054 (Link to this contribution) I note that the hon. Gentleman’s comments relate to large audit firms. Does he have a view on how th...
Justine Greening | 450 c1056 (Link to this contribution) I understand why the hon. Gentleman is setting out this argument, but does he really think that it i...
Austin Mitchell | 450 c1054-6 (Link to this contribution) It is certainly true that the main problems are caused by the big four. Their failures and their pra...
Mike Weir | 450 c1057-8 (Link to this contribution) I did not intend to speak on this matter, but I have been moved to do so by the comments of the hon....
Austin Mitchell | 450 c1056-7 (Link to this contribution) That is a fairly far-fetched picture. It is ridiculous to suggest that, because auditors report that...
Vera Baird | 450 c1059-60 (Link to this contribution) I shall begin by discussing Opposition amendments Nos. 439 and 440. I will then turn to the three am...
Jim Cousins | 450 c1058-9 (Link to this contribution) The House has a brief opportunity this afternoon to consider how to deal with certain remarkable fin...
Vera Baird | 450 c1060-1 (Link to this contribution) No, I am saying that the Solicitor-General, in a different guise, successfully defended some of the ...
Justine Greening | 450 c1050 (Link to this contribution) I would counter that the Minister’s argument is far more spurious than mine. The offence of murder d...
Justine Greening | 450 c1051-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman brings me neatly on to what I was about to say. Amendments Nos. 439 and 440 would...
David Howarth | 450 c1051 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Lady finishes, I invite her to explore the meaning of ““dishonestly or fraudulently”...
Justine Greening | 450 c1051 (Link to this contribution) I have, of course, spoken with Baroness Noakes and she is pretty comfortable with her initial commen...
Vera Baird | 450 c1050 (Link to this contribution) I have great respect for Baroness Noakes, but after she made those comments we explored in greater d...
Justine Greening | 450 c1053 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman saying that he thinks that it is a good idea that auditors should be exposed t...
David Howarth | 450 c1053 (Link to this contribution) That is correct, but the fact that it will allow auditors to limit their liability at all is a new d...
Justine Greening | 450 c1053 (Link to this contribution) The Bill will not allow auditors to limit their liability unreasonably.
David Howarth | 450 c1053-4 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Lady is confusing the liability rule and the test in the Bill—they are quite d...
David Howarth | 450 c1085 (Link to this contribution) I also have no objection to these new clauses. They are entirely reasonable and sensible. However, I...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1086 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 450 c1086 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government new clause 78—Resolutions to b...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1087 (Link to this contribution) This series of clauses and amendments relates to a company’s constitution. Government new clauses 77...
James Brokenshire | 450 c1087-9 (Link to this contribution) I will largely confine my comments to amendment No. 790 and clause 22. This must be one of the most ...
David Howarth | 450 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, and shall refer only to amendment No. 790, which the hon. Member for Hornchurch (J...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1083 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 450 c1083-4 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Government new clause 67—Court order for ...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1084 (Link to this contribution) These new clauses replace the existing part 27, making a number of minor and technical amendments. P...
James Brokenshire | 450 c1084 (Link to this contribution) As the Minister said, these are technical changes relating to arrangements and reconstructions, and ...
Jacqui Lait | 450 c1106 (Link to this contribution) It is with some trepidation that I contribute to the debate, after all the hard work that so many pe...
Mike Weir | 450 c1106-8 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a few brief points at the end of the debate. The length of the Bill has been commente...
Alan Duncan | 450 c1101-3 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Government’s conduct made the grand old Duke of York l...
David Howarth | 450 c1103-5 (Link to this contribution) Company law is part of the hidden wiring of the economy. Immense problems are caused if it goes wron...
Mike O'Brien | 450 c1108 (Link to this contribution) I thank all Members for their contributions, particularly those who were on the Standing Committee. ...
Lord Deben | 450 c1090 (Link to this contribution) I would like to speak at length on this group of amendments, as some important issues are involved. ...
Alan Duncan | 450 c1097-100 (Link to this contribution) Reaching the Third Reading of this Bill has taken a long, long time. Right back in March 1998, the G...
Lord Deben | 450 c1100-1 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether my hon. Friend would note that it is not only indecision on the part of the Governm...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1090 (Link to this contribution) I do not have time to answer the right hon. Gentleman properly, but the issue has been discussed man...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1094-7 (Link to this contribution) This has been a very good learning process. I am delighted that we have now reached the Third Readin...
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1030 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1030-1 (Link to this contribution) As we begin the third and final day of Report on the longest Bill ever produced, I want to make a fe...
Speaker | 450 c1030 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 434, in page 603, line 22, ...
David Howarth | 450 c1034-5 (Link to this contribution) It is true that a number of legitimate concerns have been raised about the practicalities of introdu...
Mike Weir | 450 c1035 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in what the hon. Gentleman is saying. Does he envisage the majority of institutions ...
David Howarth | 450 c1035 (Link to this contribution) To make things clear, I should say that I envisage there perhaps being some recalcitrant institution...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1035-6 (Link to this contribution) I must say first to the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr. Djanogly) that this is not a last-minute ide...
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1031-4 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister will give me half a chance, I will certainly come to that. The Government have not ...
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1036 (Link to this contribution) The two examples given by the Minister relate to the relationship between the institution and the pe...
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1036 (Link to this contribution) My point is that there is a difference between information that an institution gives to people who i...
Speaker | 450 c1043 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following amendments: No. 436, in page 606, line 10, ...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1037-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. In discussions that we had about information being given by companies to indirect shareholde...
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1039-40 (Link to this contribution) The Minister’s final comments suggested that she accepts the principle behind new clause 15 as long ...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1036 (Link to this contribution) I find that rather a tenuous point—[Laughter.] The hon. Gentleman laughs, but if institutions have c...
Mike Weir | 450 c1036-7 (Link to this contribution) Is not another argument that many institutions, such as pension funds, are very big, and it would be...
David Howarth | 450 c1045 (Link to this contribution) Briefly, we take the same view as we did on the previous group of amendments. In principle, we favou...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1045 (Link to this contribution) This is the second group of amendments on which I have to tell the Conservative Opposition that they...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1043-4 (Link to this contribution) The amendment will permit disclosure to be made for civil proceedings overseas. In Committee, I agre...
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1044-5 (Link to this contribution) Moving on to the disclosure of information under the Enterprise Act 2002, I shall speak specifically...
Jim Cousins | 450 c1060 (Link to this contribution) May I just confirm that I am being assured that, in the 20 years in which insider dealing was a crim...
Jonathan Djanogly | 450 c1036 (Link to this contribution) To elaborate further for the Minister’s benefit, the problem that many institutions have is not with...
Jim Cousins | 450 c1067-8 (Link to this contribution) In our last debate, when my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) and I tried to d...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1036 (Link to this contribution) I do not follow that argument. Those third parties who act on behalf of shareholders in relation to ...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1043 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move amendment No. 740, in page 606, line 10, after ‘Kingdom’ insert ‘or elsewhere’.
Justine Greening | 450 c1047-8 (Link to this contribution) I take the hon. Gentleman’s comments on board, but the Government clearly want to broaden the abilit...
David Howarth | 450 c1052-3 (Link to this contribution) The problem that we face is due simply to a slip that a Minister in the House of Lords made when att...
Baroness Hodge of Barking | 450 c1031 (Link to this contribution) I am interested to hear where the hon. Gentleman and the Opposition stand on this matter.
Subjects
Disclosure of information Consumers Accountability Audit Accountancy Company law Company accounts Companies Directors Business Civil proceedings Conflict of interests Liability Jurisdiction Documents Intellectual property Internet Protection Prosecutions Mergers Public companies Staff Shares Voting rights Shareholders Reorganisation
Legislation
Companies Bill (HL) 2005-06
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk