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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Wednesday, 14 May 2008, in the House of Lords.

Health and Social Care Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
701 c321-86GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department of Health
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Baroness Meacher | 701 c343GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that at the moment the assumption seems to be that all the power will be wi...
Baroness Murphy | 701 c335-40GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 106: 106: Clause 66, page 32, line 45, at end insert— ““(4) Where the Commissi...
Show all contributions (128)
Baroness Barker | 701 c344-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 111: 111: Clause 88, page 43, line 8, after second ““the”” insert ““trustees o...
Baroness Murphy | 701 c344GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that response. There is no doubt that there have been many discussions, and...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c326GC (Link to this contribution) The panel is not a regulator; it advises the department. My understanding is that because it will ha...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 701 c332-3GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for giving way. In many documents, articles and journals of organisations in...
Baroness Golding | 701 c362GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, strongly support the amendment. In a recent case that came before the GMC, the professionall...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c349-50GC (Link to this contribution) We looked at the last report where the committee expressed its dissatisfaction with the response mad...
Baroness Golding | 701 c356GC (Link to this contribution) I reply to the noble Lord by saying that some of these decisions are taken to the High Court. If the...
Earl Howe | 701 c375GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. That is another point that needs to be considered. In the interests o...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c376GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Cla...
Earl Howe | 701 c376-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 131: 131: After Clause 103, insert the following new Clause— ““Duty to co-oper...
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 701 c382-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 135A: 135A: Schedule 8, page 167, line 37, leave out sub-paragraph (3) and ins...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c383-4GC (Link to this contribution) I shall take the issue of the composition of regulatory body councils first. The Bill does not tell ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c368GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may clarify that point. I said that the specific issue about this was about the review of ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c343GC (Link to this contribution) The fact that Monitor merited two clauses in the Bill shows that the Government recognise the import...
Baroness Cumberlege | 701 c343GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness does that, would the Minister enlighten me a little? In this part of the B...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c343GC (Link to this contribution) It is essential for public assurance that the Care Quality Commission takes the same approach to all...
Baroness Meacher | 701 c340-1GC (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the purpose behind Amendment No. 106, which was moved so ably by my noble friend ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c335GC (Link to this contribution) There is no intention to reduce inspections. It is intended that the commission will use the excelle...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c347GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 115 to 116A: 115: Schedule 5, page 138, line 27, at end insert— ““Local Gove...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c345-6GC (Link to this contribution) I hope I make a better fist of explaining this amendment than the previous one, but I cannot guarant...
Baroness Cumberlege | 701 c321-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 101B: 101B: Clause 50, page 25, line 46, at end insert— ““(6) The reference in...
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 701 c334-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for those comments but wish to clarify a couple of points that have been made i...
Earl of Onslow | 701 c329GC (Link to this contribution) It is not often that I completely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, but when we were...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 701 c327-9GC (Link to this contribution) I intervene briefly in support of my noble friend Lady Jones of Whitchurch. I previously drew the at...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c386GC (Link to this contribution) It may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Wednesday at 3.45 pm.
Baroness Gibson of Market Rasen | 701 c386GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Wednesday 21 May at 3.45 pm.
Lord Walton of Detchant | 701 c361-2GC (Link to this contribution) I have considerable sympathy with the amendments tabled by my noble friend Lady Finlay on the member...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c360-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 122: 122: Clause 95, page 47, line 8, leave out ““a lay member”” and insert ““...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c362GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments Nos. 122 to 125 propose changes to the composition of the fitness-to-practise panels of O...
Baroness Cumberlege | 701 c364GC (Link to this contribution) I think I am right in saying that when High Court judges sit, they do so in threes. Certainly as mag...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c364GC (Link to this contribution) I am told that that is exactly right.
Baroness Thornton | 701 c365GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may give the noble Baroness a reassurance that there is a commitment to the balance of the...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c364-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful and much reassured. The other assurance I seek concerns the OHPA being able to m...
Baroness Golding | 701 c355-6GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, support the amendment of the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. The...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 701 c355GC (Link to this contribution) I did not intend to speak in this part of the debate, but the noble Baroness talked about profession...
Baroness Tonge | 701 c354GC (Link to this contribution) I want to add a few sentences. I, too, am very disturbed by the noble Earl’s amendment because, like...
Earl of Onslow | 701 c349GC (Link to this contribution) May I interrupt the Minister? That rather goes against the impression that I got—that we got—in the ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 701 c356GC (Link to this contribution) This is Committee, so perhaps I may intervene again to say that that issue greatly concerns me, too,...
Baroness Golding | 701 c359GC (Link to this contribution) Are Americans practising in this country governed by the GMC or are they referred back to America?
Baroness Thornton | 701 c358GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 120: 120: Schedule 7, page 153, line 1, leave out ““member State”” and insert ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c356-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Committee for a very interesting discussion. As Members have realised, Amendments Nos. 1...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c358GC (Link to this contribution) I propose that the Committee adjourn for 10 minutes until 6.13 pm. Moved accordingly, and, on Quest...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 701 c377GC (Link to this contribution) I have made my view abundantly clear on several occasions that the CHRE is totally redundant and unn...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 701 c380-1GC (Link to this contribution) I particularly welcome Amendment No. 152. Perhaps I should declare an interest as a hearing aid user...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 701 c382GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 134 and 135: 134: Schedule 8, page 166, line 38, at end insert ““and (c) aft...
Lord Tunnicliffe | 701 c381-2GC (Link to this contribution) First, I thank noble Lords for their general support. At the moment, I am let loose only on things a...
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 701 c366GC (Link to this contribution) I want to make a quick comment, although I cannot comment on the case that has just been raised, bec...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c368GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that, and that is more reassuring still. I have some slight concerns about putting...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 701 c371GC (Link to this contribution) I support colleagues on all sides of the Committee in this argument. I found this extraordinary when...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c341-2GC (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with the noble Baronesses, Lady Murphy and Lady Meacher, that Monitor has done a ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c348-9GC (Link to this contribution) I feel I should mark the fact that we have now reached Part 2 of the Bill, which deals with the refo...
Baroness Barker | 701 c346GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that thoughtful and considered answer. I am glad that she confirmed that my...
Baroness Murphy | 701 c344GC (Link to this contribution) Before I address the body of the Minister’s response, when was it that the Government changed their ...
Baroness Cumberlege | 701 c326GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply. However, I am even less reassured because the panel is a creatu...
Baroness Cumberlege | 701 c323GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply, which I find reassuring. It is nice to have it on record that t...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c333GC (Link to this contribution) I can make those figures available to my noble friend but I do not have them in front of me.
Baroness Thornton | 701 c333-4GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord might get them quicker than he expects. Returning to the question, the Bill allows th...
Baroness Barker | 701 c329-30GC (Link to this contribution) I was tempted to support the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch. I tho...
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 701 c327GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 103A: 103A: Clause 57, page 28, line 26, at end insert— ““( ) The Secretary of...
Baroness Golding | 701 c359GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt, but that is not my question. I am talking about double standards. There is ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 701 c359GC (Link to this contribution) It is important to clarify this. It is perfectly true that for some years any doctor with a British ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c359GC (Link to this contribution) That was what I was trying to say; thank the noble Lord very much.
Baroness Thornton | 701 c359-60GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 121: 121: Schedule 7, page 156, line 34, after ““for”” insert ““the Registrar ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c359GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord Walton, for his helpful explanation. I will undertake to clarify this s...
Baroness Tonge | 701 c362GC (Link to this contribution) I take the point that the panel should be flexible and can appoint more members, but if the minimum ...
Baroness Golding | 701 c358GC (Link to this contribution) If the person practising is an American, how is he or she covered by this provision, which covers Eu...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c375GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 129: 129: Clause 95, page 47, line 22, at end insert— ““( ) All members and ch...
Baroness Cumberlege | 701 c376GC (Link to this contribution) I think I should declare an interest. My company is actually doing this work.
Baroness Thornton | 701 c375-6GC (Link to this contribution) That was admirably brief, although I may not be quite so brief. The amendment proposes that a statut...
Baroness Cumberlege | 701 c377GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend. I understand that the CHRE has reviewed 1,200 cases, and out of those it ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c377-8GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 131 proposes that a new clause be inserted after Clause 103. The new clause would requ...
Earl Howe | 701 c378GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister’s reply is in large measure reassuring. The central point to grasp, if I have grasped i...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c368GC (Link to this contribution) Actually, it will be in rules, not guidance.
Baroness Thornton | 701 c367GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 126 seeks to ensure that fitness-to-practise panel members have not been involved in p...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c367-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am most reassured by the Minister’s words. I am especially grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Go...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 701 c370GC (Link to this contribution) I must say, I do not envy the Minister’s task in answering on these complex issues. On the one hand,...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c375GC (Link to this contribution) I have been given a note answering the noble Lord’s question as to whether the doctors will be given...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c372-4GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a useful discussion and I suspect that we will return to the question of pilots. Howev...
Earl Howe | 701 c374-5GC (Link to this contribution) This has been an extremely useful discussion and I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken par...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c335GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 105: 105: Clause 65, page 32, line 26, at end insert— ““( ) The Commission and...
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 701 c335GC (Link to this contribution) On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Clause 57 ag...
Earl of Onslow | 701 c347-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 117: 117: Schedule 6, page 142, line 26, at end insert— ““(3) The OHPA shall h...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c346-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 114: 114: Schedule 5, page 134, line 22, leave out paragraph 48 and insert— ““...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c344GC (Link to this contribution) I am not sure I know the answer to that. I will have to reflect. There have been, I think, three or ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c325-6GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is completely correct that competition and choice are powerful levers to drive up...
Baroness Cumberlege | 701 c323-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 102: 102: After Clause 51, insert the following new Clause— ““Competition betw...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 701 c321GC (Link to this contribution) I remind the Committee that if there is a Division when we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn i...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c323GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to the noble Baroness about matters that might be included in studies unde...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 701 c333GC (Link to this contribution) I have another question to which I know she will not have the answer to hand, but perhaps she can as...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c333GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know the specific answer to that question, but I do not think that that is the case. We hav...
Lord Campbell-Savours | 701 c333GC (Link to this contribution) If the cuts have already taken place—I presume they are cuts, because if the reductions have already...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c333GC (Link to this contribution) Part of the original reason for this exercise was to make savings, but those savings have already be...
Baroness Howe of Idlicote | 701 c330-1GC (Link to this contribution) Having listened to the passion of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, I very much agree with what...
Baroness Cumberlege | 701 c326-7GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be one of those watching with great interest. For the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the am...
Earl Howe | 701 c327GC (Link to this contribution) The purpose of Amendment No. 104A in this group is simply to ask what the difference is between the ...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 701 c331GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee for arriving late and therefore for not hearing all the interventions. ...
Baroness Meacher | 701 c331-2GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may take one minute of the Committee’s time quickly to make two points. I strongly support...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c332GC (Link to this contribution) This has been an interesting debate. Members of the Committee will not be surprised to hear that I t...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c386GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 136: 136: Schedule 8, page 168, line 12, leave out from ““to”” to end of line ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c359GC (Link to this contribution) I will need to check that and write to my noble friend as my notes do not cover that point.
Lord Walton of Detchant | 701 c359GC (Link to this contribution) There are clear mechanisms for registering overseas doctors from countries outside the European Unio...
Baroness Golding | 701 c359GC (Link to this contribution) Further to that, all 50 states in the United States have mandated reporting laws whereby physicians ...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c362-4GC (Link to this contribution) The procedural rules in fact say that they should be able to find a substitute, or they may have to ...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c364GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords for joining in the debate. I said that these are probing amendments...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c365GC (Link to this contribution) The last point I want the noble Baroness to respond to is simply that of the strong personality. It ...
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 701 c354-5GC (Link to this contribution) I suppose I should declare an interest as someone who has been employed on fitness-to-practise panel...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c353-4GC (Link to this contribution) I slightly disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Walton, and I do so in fear and trepidation as a docto...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 701 c352-3GC (Link to this contribution) Rarely in proceedings in your Lordships’ House do I ever find myself in disagreement with the noble ...
Earl Howe | 701 c351-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 118: 118: Schedule 7, page 147, line 8, leave out ““General Council”” and inse...
Earl of Onslow | 701 c350-1GC (Link to this contribution) I think that I am totally satisfied by that. I will probably get frightful stick from my committee f...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c359GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 120 is a drafting correction. The 2007 European qualifications regulations amended the...
Earl Howe | 701 c357-8GC (Link to this contribution) This has been a good debate. I do not feel I need to apologise for having tabled the amendments. The...
Baroness Thornton | 701 c376GC (Link to this contribution) I am putting it on the record that that is our view. I am sure it will be part of the rules that are...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c376GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister confirm that this will now go down in the guidance or rules for the panels?
Lord Tunnicliffe | 701 c378-80GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 132: 132: Schedule 8, page 166, line 34, leave out ““and”” The noble Lord sai...
Earl Howe | 701 c381GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that the Committee will be grateful to the Minister for his explanation of the amendments....
Baroness Gardner of Parkes | 701 c384-6GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for those remarks, but I do not agree at all. She said that she wanted parity b...
Baroness Golding | 701 c366GC (Link to this contribution) That has not always been the case. People who have spoken out against what has happened have previou...
Baroness Golding | 701 c366GC (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the amendment, which is very important indeed. I speak again about paediatricians...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c365GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 126: 126: Clause 95, page 47, line 14, at end insert— ““( ) All fitness to pra...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c368GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for clarifying that. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Ame...
Baroness Tonge | 701 c369-70GC (Link to this contribution) I support in particular Amendment No. 128, regarding this rather clumsy Clause 95(4), which talks of...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 701 c370-1GC (Link to this contribution) I have an amendment in this group. The discussion already demonstrates that we almost have equipoise...
Earl Howe | 701 c368-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 127: 127: Clause 95, page 47, line 18, leave out ““in specified circumstances”...
Baroness Jones of Whitchurch | 701 c371-2GC (Link to this contribution) I want to add my two pennyworth on this because I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, that t...
Subjects
Care homes Accountability Cost effectiveness Competition General Medical Council Hearing impairment Health services Human rights Inspections Hearing aids Health professions General practitioners Private sector NHS Qualifications Public appointments NHS foundation trusts National Institute for Health and Care Excellence Migrant workers Registration Standards Training Regulation Social services Healthcare Commission Overseas workers General Dental Council Health Professions Council Hearing Aid Council Care Quality Commission Office of the Health Professions Adjudicator
Legislation
Health and Social Care Bill 2007-08
Link
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