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Opposition day on Wednesday, 11 February 2009, in the House of Commons, led by Lord Clarke of Nottingham. The answering member was Pat McFadden.

Royal Mail

Royal Mail. Fifth Opposition Day debate (part 2). Main question negatived on division (151 votes to 376). Amendment agreed to on division (309 votes to 208).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
487 c1436-87;487 c1434-85 
Session
2008-09
Department
Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 487 c1437;487 c1435 (Link to this contribution) Order. Please will the hon. Gentleman withdraw that remark?
Speaker | 487 c1458;487 c1456 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the House that Mr. Speaker has placed a limit of eight minutes on Back-Bench speeche...
Show all contributions (129)
Speaker | 487 c1458;487 c1456 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind the House that Mr. Speaker has placed a limit of eight minutes on Back-Bench speeche...
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1455-6;487 c1453 (Link to this contribution) I have indeed discussed the potential for putting contracts into post offices with my own local auth...
Peter Luff | 487 c1456;487 c1454 (Link to this contribution) If I understand the hon. Gentleman correctly, what he is citing as a problem is actually one of the ...
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1455;487 c1453 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister might like to observe that, with friends like that, who needs enemies? The Pos...
Albert Owen | 487 c1455;487 c1453 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making an interesting point. Does he agree that it is important to set up a mo...
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1454-5;487 c1452-3 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman for that intervention. I draw his at...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1454;487 c1452 (Link to this contribution) I was waiting to hear the hon. Gentleman say whether he was in favour of partial privatisation, whic...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1455;487 c1453 (Link to this contribution) The Post Office already has a partnership with the Bank of Ireland, which I think the hon. Gentleman...
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1455;487 c1453 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely, and I would ask the Minister to ensure that there was a clear, transparent contract betw...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1455;487 c1453 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman is setting out his party's policy on the company structure, but...
Julie Kirkbride | 487 c1457;487 c1455 (Link to this contribution) I find the idea of greater employee participation and ownership very attractive, but it raises an ob...
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1457;487 c1455 (Link to this contribution) Let me make clear that I am in favour of an injection of finance, and in favour of a partnership. Wh...
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1456;487 c1454 (Link to this contribution) I bow to the hon. Gentleman's superior knowledge in this field.
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1456-7;487 c1454-5 (Link to this contribution) That is precisely the point I am coming on to. I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman will allow me to ...
Jonathan Djanogly | 487 c1456;487 c1454 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree with the Minister's point that, by having an outside third-party inves...
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1457;487 c1455 (Link to this contribution) I am not terribly hung up over whether it is a partial privatisation or a wholly public non-privatis...
Lord Deben | 487 c1457;487 c1455 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that even if the Government took the route that he is suggesting, and ...
Simon Hughes | 487 c1457;487 c1455 (Link to this contribution) May I reinforce what my hon. Friend is saying? I have talked to people who work for Royal Mail in a ...
Peter Luff | 487 c1460-2;487 c1458-60 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Leicester, West (Ms Hewitt), who made a charact...
Geraldine Smith | 487 c1462-4;487 c1460-2 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to have an opportunity to vote today against the part-privatisation of Royal Mail. I ...
Patricia Hewitt | 487 c1460;487 c1458 (Link to this contribution) I simply cannot give way, given the time. For all the reasons I have outlined, I strongly support t...
Patricia Hewitt | 487 c1458-60;487 c1456-8 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to speak, and for the opportunity to follow the speeches that we h...
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1457-8;487 c1455-6 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will not give him a lecture at this stage on how these thin...
Mike Weir | 487 c1457;487 c1455 (Link to this contribution) Will the employees be able to trade the shares? Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting a combination of pr...
Dai Davies | 487 c1468-9;487 c1466-7 (Link to this contribution) I shall be very quick, Mr. Deputy Speaker, so that more Members can speak. I echo the sentiments of...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1467;487 c1465 (Link to this contribution) There is absolutely no dispute from the Opposition or anywhere else that the accrued pension rights ...
John Heppell | 487 c1467;487 c1465 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Reading, West (Martin Salter) asked the then shadow Business Secretary...
Speaker | 487 c1468;487 c1466 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman had to be pipped at the post.
John Heppell | 487 c1467-8;487 c1465-6 (Link to this contribution) I suspect that that will not be the case. Just this week, the Mayor of London, who used to be the ho...
Charles Hendry | 487 c1464-6;487 c1462-4 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Morecambe and Lunesdale (Geraldine Smith). I do...
Charles Hendry | 487 c1467;487 c1465 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman should go back and look again at that debate. I responded to it, and I ga...
John Heppell | 487 c1466-7;487 c1464-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to take part in this debate, especially facing my neighbour—I almost said my hon. F...
Joan Walley | 487 c1472-3;487 c1470-1 (Link to this contribution) In the very few minutes that I have, I wish to make the point that an Opposition day, when the Oppos...
Jonathan Djanogly | 487 c1473-6;487 c1471-4 (Link to this contribution) Let me repeat the shadow Secretary of State's earlier remark that we welcome Richard Hooper's review...
Albert Owen | 487 c1470;487 c1468 (Link to this contribution) I was not going to go down that partisan route, but I do worry about privatisation and the Conservat...
Rob Wilson | 487 c1471-2;487 c1469-70 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to this important debate, and I shall try to be q...
Ian Pearson | 487 c1478;487 c1476 (Link to this contribution) No, I want to continue and answer those questions in the time available to me. Let me explain my vie...
Ian Pearson | 487 c1478;487 c1476 (Link to this contribution) Let me talk about the politics. The right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) was—as...
Ian Pearson | 487 c1476-7;487 c1474-5 (Link to this contribution) Royal Mail and the Post Office form an important part of the social fabric of UK society, along with...
Albert Owen | 487 c1469-70;487 c1467-8 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this debate on Royal Mail. I also welcome the shadow Business Secretary, who is no longer ...
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield | 487 c1470;487 c1468 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that we need to resolve the problems around Royal Mail under this Governme...
Ian Pearson | 487 c1478-9;487 c1476-7 (Link to this contribution) I have only two or three minutes before the guillotine falls. I want to be as brutally honest as th...
Michael Connarty | 487 c1478;487 c1476 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. If he had heard the opening speech by the right hon. and learned Me...
Ian Pearson | 487 c1478;487 c1476 (Link to this contribution) I was merely expressing my own view that such an option should not be ruled out. My hon. Friend will...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1436;487 c1434 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House welcomes the Hooper review of UK postal services; and urges the Gover...
Peter Kilfoyle | 487 c1437;487 c1435 (Link to this contribution) I certainly withdraw the remark; I am sure the right hon. and learned Gentleman understands what I a...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1440-1;487 c1438-9 (Link to this contribution) There should certainly be a level playing field, and the consumer benefits from such competition. It...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1439;487 c1437 (Link to this contribution) We have been trying to get the Government to say what they will do about the pension deficit. I trus...
Lord Hain | 487 c1439;487 c1437 (Link to this contribution) This is good, knockabout, Oxbridge stuff—[Interruption.] That is why all the Oxbridge types behind t...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1439;487 c1437 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way when I finish this passage. This proposal is a U-turn. I do not criticise the Labo...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1438-9;487 c1436-7 (Link to this contribution) I share all the concern about the Post Office—I use it and realise that it is in an important instit...
Peter Kilfoyle | 487 c1438;487 c1436 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman accept that there is a difference between the Conservative...
Speaker | 487 c1438;487 c1436 (Link to this contribution) Order. The House must come to order.
Rob Marris | 487 c1436;487 c1434 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1437;487 c1435 (Link to this contribution) I will give way shortly, but I do not want to be drawn on to Titian now. Let me make a little more p...
Peter Kilfoyle | 487 c1437;487 c1435 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. and learned Gentleman, and I do not want to paint him into a corner,...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1437;487 c1435 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way once more, and then I will turn to the substance, which I hope will enable us to un...
Rob Marris | 487 c1436;487 c1434 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the right hon. and learned Gentleman's motion is the adverb.
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1436;487 c1434 (Link to this contribution) I will in just a second. First, let me explain the slight puzzlement that I am currently experiencin...
Peter Kilfoyle | 487 c1437;487 c1435 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1436;487 c1434 (Link to this contribution) I have never seen a longer amendment to remove an adverb in all my life. I think that those who draf...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1445;487 c1443 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the company said that it had no such plans. Hooper considered the background of chang...
Jim Cunningham | 487 c1445;487 c1443 (Link to this contribution) Later in his speech, will my right hon. Friend clear up the press reports regarding redundancies—I t...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1444-5;487 c1442-3 (Link to this contribution) What I will say is that the maintenance of the universal service obligation—the six-day-a-week, one-...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1446;487 c1444 (Link to this contribution) Let me pick up on that last point. Is the Minister confirming that my alarm was unfounded and that t...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1445;487 c1443 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely not. Without change, postal workers who serve us through thick and thin—
John Grogan | 487 c1445;487 c1443 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend mentions the strategic partnership. Does he find it as intriguing as I do that ...
Geraldine Smith | 487 c1446;487 c1444 (Link to this contribution) If a strategic partner partly owns Royal Mail, is that not part-privatisation? Am I missing somethin...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1446;487 c1444 (Link to this contribution) I just said that Hooper gave three interlinked recommendations, one of which was a strategic partner...
John Heppell | 487 c1441;487 c1439 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way?
John Heppell | 487 c1441;487 c1439 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. and learned Gentleman give way on that point?
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1441;487 c1439 (Link to this contribution) I will not, as many hon. Members want to speak in the debate, and Back Benchers are under a time lim...
Speaker | 487 c1443;487 c1441 (Link to this contribution) Order. I apologise to the House that I omitted to inform it that Mr. Speaker has selected the amendm...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 487 c1441-3;487 c1439-41 (Link to this contribution) No, I am afraid that I do not have time to give way any more. The report says that the Government s...
Albert Owen | 487 c1444;487 c1442 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way on that important point about new technology. I...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1443-4;487 c1441-2 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from ““House”” to the end of the Question and add:"““notes ...
Robert Goodwill | 487 c1444;487 c1442 (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister not agree that the downgrade in some of the service has contributed to the problem...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1444;487 c1442 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct to say that there has been an increase in the volume of packets posted, bu...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1448-9;487 c1446-7 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress. By the end of next year, there will be liberalised postal markets in ...
Lord Deben | 487 c1449;487 c1447 (Link to this contribution) If a private company owns part of Royal Mail, is it not the case that Royal Mail becomes a partly ow...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1449;487 c1447 (Link to this contribution) And the Conservative party prides itself on knowing business. The difference between a majority and ...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1449;487 c1447 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a moment. We need a longer-term plan, with a proper buy-in from the work force, ...
Peter Luff | 487 c1448;487 c1446 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister confirm that of the £1.2 billion of investment that he mentioned, some £600 million...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1448;487 c1446 (Link to this contribution) The critical point about the £1.2 billion that has been missed in recent weeks is that this is a com...
David Hamilton | 487 c1448;487 c1446 (Link to this contribution) I am rather puzzled by my right hon. Friend saying that Royal Mail will be a publicly owned company;...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1448;487 c1446 (Link to this contribution) I am making it clear that because the Government will still own the majority of the company, it will...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1448;487 c1446 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the Chair of the Select Committee.
Pat McFadden | 487 c1447;487 c1445 (Link to this contribution) I think the hon. Gentleman will find that millions of bank accounts are available to post offices. P...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1447;487 c1445 (Link to this contribution) No, I must make some progress. Royal Mail has made some progress in recent years. Its performance in...
Bob Spink | 487 c1447;487 c1445 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the Minister on finally getting away from the dogma and getting down pragmatically to...
Graham Stuart | 487 c1446;487 c1444 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the Minister on having the courage of his convictions in looking at the facts and see...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1446;487 c1444 (Link to this contribution) We all have an interest in this issue, and all right hon. and hon. Members' views on it are valid. ...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1446;487 c1444 (Link to this contribution) Royal Mail will remain a publicly owned company. We have made that clear and that is why we do not b...
Philip Dunne | 487 c1451;487 c1449 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister clarify once and for all whether the entities with which he is prepared to have di...
Geoffrey Clifton-Brown | 487 c1450;487 c1448 (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister accept that as Royal Mail is currently wholly publicly owned, if it is going to ma...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1451;487 c1449 (Link to this contribution) The Hooper report states that Royal Mail needs to make changes to sorting and delivery offices and, ...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1449;487 c1447 (Link to this contribution) I said that we will make it clear that the company will continue to be a publicly owned company.
David Anderson | 487 c1450;487 c1448 (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister seriously suggesting to us that industrial relations will improve if we have a deal ...
Michael Jabez Foster | 487 c1449;487 c1447 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that buy-in from the work force is key to the future...
Patricia Hewitt | 487 c1450;487 c1448 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend confirm that Royal Mail has lost approximately five times more revenue as ...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1450;487 c1448 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend, who has long experience of these matters, is absolutely right. Competition wit...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1450;487 c1448 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend is referring to the company that I think he is, he will find that it recognises tr...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1450;487 c1448 (Link to this contribution) I have given way a couple of times and I would like to turn to the question of regulation. Regulati...
Viscount Thurso | 487 c1453-4;487 c1451-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss the Hooper report. When the statement was made, I said ...
Rob Marris | 487 c1452;487 c1450 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend and neighbour for giving way. I urge him not to accept the Con...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1452;487 c1450 (Link to this contribution) I certainly assure my hon. Friend that we will not accept the Conservative motion, though my invitat...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1452-3;487 c1450-1 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I must end my remarks shortly. Let me tackle stamp prices. It has been suggested th...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1451;487 c1449 (Link to this contribution) The Post Office has welcomed that, because it has its own product. I shall draw my arguments to a c...
Alan Reid | 487 c1451;487 c1449 (Link to this contribution) The Minister is right to say that we have to expand financial services at post offices, but I draw h...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1452;487 c1450 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I must keep going. Much of the profit last year came from the European parcels bus...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1451;487 c1449 (Link to this contribution) Hooper is quite clear that he believes that a valuable partnership will be with a postal or network ...
Ian Pearson | 487 c1478;487 c1476 (Link to this contribution) I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Michael Connarty).
Robert Smith | 487 c1439-40;487 c1437-8 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. and learned Gentleman makes an important point about protecting the universal service...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1445;487 c1443 (Link to this contribution) We have enshrined the USO in primary legislation and we will continue to do so in the future. The f...
Pat McFadden | 487 c1447;487 c1445 (Link to this contribution) I shall come back to the analogy of being a little bit pregnant. That policy said that we had set ou...
Mike Weir | 487 c1445;487 c1443 (Link to this contribution) I understand what the Minister is saying about the USO, and I agree with him, but the problem is tha...
David Leslie Taylor | 487 c1446-7;487 c1444-5 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether my right hon. Friend was at the Labour party conference 20 weeks ago. It passe...
Subjects
Cost effectiveness Competition Industrial relations Innovation Government assistance Private sector Workplace pensions Loans Prices Pension funds Postal services Ofcom Postal Services Commission Post Office Modernisation Standards Regulation Technology Royal Mail Universal service obligation Postal Services Sector Review
Link
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