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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Thursday, 6 December 2007, in the House of Lords.

Local Transport Bill [HL] Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
696 c35-92GC 
Session
2007-08
Department
Department for Transport
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c87GC (Link to this contribution) I would expect an intelligent and sensitive operator to work to resolve the problem rather than to b...
Lord Rosser | 696 c72-3GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened with interest to my noble friend and, on the basis of what he said—which was an extr...
Show all contributions (130)
Lord Rosser | 696 c76GC (Link to this contribution) In the light of that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c76GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for raising this issue. I assure him that there is no problem legis...
Earl Attlee | 696 c48GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Borrie, should not be surprised that I moved this amendment, because we will ex...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c54GC (Link to this contribution) That is extremely serious. The noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market, has done the Committee ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c56-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, for his explanation and to the noble Lord, Lord ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c88-9GC (Link to this contribution) The second question is easier to answer than the first. We do not believe that the fact that there h...
Earl Attlee | 696 c66-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 12: 12: Clause 12, page 13, line 22, at end insert— ““( ) Restrictions can inc...
Earl Attlee | 696 c69GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister’s careful and detailed reply. He mentioned seasonal changes. They are...
Lord Snape | 696 c74-5GC (Link to this contribution) Before he does so—if he is about to do so—I have a specific question. It is regrettable when words ...
Earl Attlee | 696 c70GC (Link to this contribution) I have Amendment No. 19 in this group. The Bill seeks to amend the Transport Act 2000 to allow frequ...
Earl Attlee | 696 c73GC (Link to this contribution) I am neutral on the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, but I hope that the Minister does not ...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c73-4GC (Link to this contribution) No, I shall not forget that. I thank noble Lords for their very important and lively contributions. ...
Lord Low of Dalston | 696 c76-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 16: 16: Clause 12, page 14, leave out lines 9 to 13 The noble Lord said: This...
Lord Tordoff | 696 c78GC (Link to this contribution) It may be appropriate for me to draw attention to the fact that were Amendment No. 18 to be agreed, ...
Lord Rosser | 696 c78-80GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. Do the lines that the amendment seeks to leave out represent a change from ...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c40GC (Link to this contribution) I totally agree that there should be strategic oversight, but I do not know whether that should nece...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c41GC (Link to this contribution) Of course the traffic commissioners will have a local input. They will also have a regional input. P...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 696 c41GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that there are occasions, and this may be one of them, where it would proba...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c41GC (Link to this contribution) Scottish and Welsh Ministers might feel a little aggrieved if no reference was made to them. The bea...
Lord Rosser | 696 c42GC (Link to this contribution) Well, then, are you going to accept it?
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c42-3GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5: 5: Clause 3, page 5, leave out lines 35 to 39 The noble Lord said: Subsect...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c42GC (Link to this contribution) In that situation, having taken into account that he is the senior traffic commissioner, he would ob...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c42GC (Link to this contribution) The commissioner will have a specific area, but he will also have an oversight role. For that purpos...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c43GC (Link to this contribution) I managed to get hold of various documents from the Printed Paper Office this morning, including the...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c44GC (Link to this contribution) I would like to explore that a little further. In my experience—I am sure in the Minister’s experien...
Earl Attlee | 696 c46-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5B: 5B: Clause 4, page 6, line 20, after ““which”” insert ““both the senior tr...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c44GC (Link to this contribution) It is not that the Government require great interference; that is not the purpose of our approach. T...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c45GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister did not answer my question about budgets, but we may explore that further as this all h...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c45GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5A: 5A: Clause 3, page 5, line 37, at end insert— ““(7) The Secretary of State...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c49-50GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7A: 7A: Clause 8, page 10, line 24, at end insert— ““(c) to have regard to rel...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c49GC (Link to this contribution) What I was trying to get from the Minister was why it was, to a certain extent, mentioned almost twi...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c54GC (Link to this contribution) I support all that has been said on level crossings. However, we have moved away from the original g...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c54GC (Link to this contribution) Given the amount of consultation and scrutiny that the Bill has undergone, I hope that it is not inc...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c52GC (Link to this contribution) Is Network Rail included in the consultation?
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c58-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 11: 11: Clause 9, page 11, line 34, at end insert— ““(2C) In preparing their l...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 696 c57GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord. I am not sure that he will be able to give an answer now but I shou...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c55-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8: 8: Clause 9, page 11, line 4, at end insert ““having regard to changing tra...
Lord Snape | 696 c61GC (Link to this contribution) That rather confirmed our prejudices, if the noble Baroness will forgive me for saying so. These are...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c59-60GC (Link to this contribution) Clauses 12 to 17 contain provisions for quality partnership schemes for bus services. There is alrea...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 696 c89GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. If he had just replied to the original question from the noble Lord, ...
Lord Snape | 696 c88GC (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend replies to that specific point, perhaps I can help him out. Subsequent to the...
Lord Low of Dalston | 696 c90GC (Link to this contribution) That is probably about as far as one can take that point this afternoon. With those observations and...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c91-2GC (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, that neighbouring authorities should be con...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c35-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: 1: Clause 2, page 2, line 12, after ““appropriate”” insert ““following cons...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 696 c37GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his reply that he sent to all of us, not only to me in particular....
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c37-40GC (Link to this contribution) I welcome everyone to this all-embracing Committee with a whole range of interests. It seems to stre...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c88GC (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend sits down, I will try once more. If the situation is, as the noble Baroness a...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 696 c87GC (Link to this contribution) I recall that when I was managing the transport portfolio in Suffolk, the bus operators would not me...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 696 c80GC (Link to this contribution) I do not wish to get involved in the emerging division between local authority and PTE-type people o...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c82-7GC (Link to this contribution) We have had a fairly wide-ranging discussion around this group of amendments. That is no great surpr...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c62-3GC (Link to this contribution) As part of the consultation process which was conducted between July and October 2007 and entitled, ...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c66GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful for the responses of both my noble friends. This is clearly a probing amendment a...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c75GC (Link to this contribution) I was asked a specific question by my noble friend Lord Snape about the funding of GoSkills. I confi...
Lord Rosser | 696 c75GC (Link to this contribution) I do not particularly wish to prolong proceedings with a lengthy response to my noble friend. I have...
Lord Rosser | 696 c75-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 15: 15: Clause 12, page 14, line 7, after ““descriptions,”” insert ““or for ti...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c40GC (Link to this contribution) Before my noble friend leaves that subject, if there is a proposal to merge Passenger Focus for rail...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c40GC (Link to this contribution) I was about to offer the commitment, picking up on the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfi...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c40-1GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord will know, we have an Eastern region now and many things are now done by it. For E...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c42GC (Link to this contribution) I think that the Minister has accepted one amendment in this group but I still hope that he will ref...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c42GC (Link to this contribution) On that subject, can my noble friend have a look at subsection (5), half way down page 4 of the Bill...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c42GC (Link to this contribution) I was about to say to the noble Lord that we are prepared to look at it further and, I hope, come ba...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c46GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps while my noble friend is considering her answer I could help her a little. On the question o...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c45-6GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend’s amendment concerns the scope of the guidance, but the Government feel that it veer...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c49GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for explaining his amendment, which is presented with a strongly loc...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c48-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7: 7: Clause 8, page 10, leave out lines 22 to 24 The noble Lord said: I prop...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c47-8GC (Link to this contribution) I thank both noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. My noble friend Lord Borrie is ri...
Earl Attlee | 696 c53GC (Link to this contribution) She was looking down the track. The noble Lord should imagine how she would have felt if she saw a t...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c52-3GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, and Network Rail. The Government agree that consultation on local transport plans with interes...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c58GC (Link to this contribution) It may be useful if I set out our thoughts at greater length in correspondence—perhaps by a compendi...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c62GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness and my noble friend for their contributions. The noble Lord, Lord Snape, ...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c59GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the committee. Amendment No. 11A is a mistake. It is a duplication. I support the a...
Lord Low of Dalston | 696 c90GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that. If I can assist at all in discussions with the Minister between now and Repo...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c90GC (Link to this contribution) Of course I shall reflect on that point, because one should. I am not certain whether we need to add...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c92GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness for her answer. She certainly sympathised with my view that these people ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c90GC (Link to this contribution) I hesitate to interrupt the noble Lord’s calm response, but I cannot give that undertaking. It would...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c37GC (Link to this contribution) I hope it would be convenient for the Committee for me to speak to my Amendment No. 1A with this gro...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c87GC (Link to this contribution) I understand the issue the noble Baroness raises. In my locality we do not have a benign monopoly, b...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c81GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for being slightly late for this group. I shall speak briefly to Amendment No. 16A, whic...
Earl Attlee | 696 c81GC (Link to this contribution) I have Amendment No. 19 in this group. I am grateful to other Members of the Committee who managed t...
Lord Snape | 696 c87GC (Link to this contribution) Could my noble friend reassure the Committee that if two operators sat down, perhaps under the auspi...
Lord Snape | 696 c82GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, apologise to noble Lords for missing parts of this debate. I shall be extremely brief in wha...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c63-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 11B: 11B: Before Clause 12, insert the following new Clause— ““Tendered Networ...
Lord Snape | 696 c64-5GC (Link to this contribution) I do not often disagree with my noble friend Lord Berkeley on these matters, but I fear that I must ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c65-6GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Snape and I are at one on this issue. I certainly recognise the novelty of the ...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c67-9GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl has set out an interesting proposal. I certainly agree that there is often merit in e...
Lord Rosser | 696 c69-70GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 13: 13: Clause 12, page 14, line 1, at end insert ““and (c) requirements as to...
Lord Snape | 696 c71GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to what my noble friend Lord Rosser said. Two questions immediately come t...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c70GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 19 is grouped with Amendments Nos. 16, 16A, 18, 20 and 21.
Lord Snape | 696 c72GC (Link to this contribution) I think the noble Earl’s remarks were addressed to me as a former railwayman. I do not want to pre-e...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 696 c71-2GC (Link to this contribution) The point I pick up from the noble Lord, Lord Snape, is that many bus companies do this at present b...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c40GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord never asks for too much. I think it is best left to guidance. We are talking about se...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c42GC (Link to this contribution) The short answer is that we do not see too much to object to in the noble Lord’s amendment.
Lord Rosser | 696 c41GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that new subsection (4)(e) states, "““as the senior traffic commissioner thinks fi...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 696 c43GC (Link to this contribution) Were my noble friend Lord Bradshaw here, I am certain that he would extol to the Grand Committee the...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 696 c42GC (Link to this contribution) If I pretended that this was a wildly controversial Bill in Scotland, that would be knocked on the h...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c43-4GC (Link to this contribution) As has been explained, the amendment would remove the Secretary of State’s power to give guidance to...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c46GC (Link to this contribution) I should think that if that problem became a serious issue it would become part of a disciplinary ro...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c46GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to my noble friend for the way in which she has answered the questions under this...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c51-2GC (Link to this contribution) I shall deal with the noble Baroness’s point first. We were intending to discuss a number of safety ...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 696 c51GC (Link to this contribution) I support any moves that would seek to improve the relationship between highways planning authoritie...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c50-1GC (Link to this contribution) I speak to Amendments Nos. 9 and 10, which complement Amendment No. 7A. An authority's consultation ...
Lord Borrie | 696 c47GC (Link to this contribution) I feel a certain surprise at this amendment. As was elicited by noble Lords from Ministers this afte...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c53GC (Link to this contribution) The partner of the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, could at least have drawn comfort from the fact that the...
Earl of Mar and Kellie | 696 c54GC (Link to this contribution) If the public knew that we were discussing a Local Transport Bill which did not deal with the most d...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c53GC (Link to this contribution) I shall certainly assist as much as I can in answering the noble Earl’s query.
Earl Attlee | 696 c53GC (Link to this contribution) I listened with interest to what the Minister said about safety at level crossings. Will she write t...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c58GC (Link to this contribution) That was very interesting but I hope that the Minister can help us further. I have some of the clari...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c57-8GC (Link to this contribution) I should like to reinforce that point. I should have raised it because it is important, and I am ver...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c56GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the noble Lord should have some experience of opposition. When one is in opposition, even if...
Lord Borrie | 696 c56GC (Link to this contribution) On this matter, as on earlier ones, Her Majesty’s Opposition have very properly probed the Governmen...
Lord Berkeley | 696 c55GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, for his comments. I shall read the Minister...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c62GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may get back to the noble Baroness on that. I understand that one can change a boundary to...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 696 c62GC (Link to this contribution) Clause 68, which relates to reviews and creating new integrated transport areas, states that the rev...
Baroness Scott of Needham Market | 696 c60GC (Link to this contribution) I gave notice of my objection to Clause 9 standing part of the Bill as a way of reflecting further o...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c60GC (Link to this contribution) I am rather disappointed that the Minister was so negative about this amendment. If it created a pre...
Lord Snape | 696 c60-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising this point. The question of local government boundar...
Lord Rosser | 696 c88GC (Link to this contribution) I understand from what my noble friend said about admissible objections that an operator can raise t...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c89GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that at all. The noble Lord’s contribution was very useful and helpful, and I extend ...
Lord Low of Dalston | 696 c89GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that. I was a bit worried that other noble Lords who obviously know a great...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 696 c89GC (Link to this contribution) I like to think that I have shed a bit more light on the subject. I apologise for taking my time on ...
Lord Low of Dalston | 696 c89GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister has asked that I withdraw the amendment and I am prepared to do so. This has been a wid...
Lord Hanningfield | 696 c90-1GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 17: 17: Clause 12, page 14, line 24, at end insert— ““(3) In subsection (3)(c)...
Baroness Crawley | 696 c92GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until next Wednesday at 3.45 pm.
Viscount Simon | 696 c92GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Wednesday 12 December at 3.45 pm.
Lord Rosser | 696 c36-7GC (Link to this contribution) My Amendment No. 4 is in this group. It would ensure that when the senior traffic commissioner is co...
Subjects
Disability Children Devolved matters Bus services Accidents Fares Finance Driving Planning Public transport Pollution control Railways Network Rail Scotland Standards Training Transport Safety Roads Road traffic control Traffic Commissioners Tendered network zones
Legislation
Local Transport Bill (HL) 2007-08
Link
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