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Committee proceeding and Debate on bill on Thursday, 20 April 2006, in the House of Lords.

Health Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
680 c541-600GC 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department of Health
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Warner | 680 c564-6GC (Link to this contribution) I repeat what I said, which is that I will stick to the arguments in the amendment, not extraneous a...
Lord Warner | 680 c598-9GC (Link to this contribution) The length of time that smoke lingers depends on the rate of air exchange in the particular place. I...
Show all contributions (157)
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 680 c600GC (Link to this contribution) I do not have a train to catch, but this may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn.
Lord Warner | 680 c594-5GC (Link to this contribution) Sticking to the principle that I enunciated at the beginning of the Committee proceedings, we will d...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c560GC (Link to this contribution) I wish simply in two or three sentences to return to the wording of the amendment. First, the noble ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c570GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, I want to clarify something. I have served on Grand Committees befo...
Lord Warner | 680 c562-3GC (Link to this contribution) In this lull in the proceedings, I thought that I should get up rather quickly. First, I again apolo...
Lord Wakeham | 680 c563GC (Link to this contribution) If I may say so, Barbara Castle was probably right.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c562GC (Link to this contribution) May I say just one further sentence on democracy? My experience of people and their reaction to this...
Earl Howe | 680 c576-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate: the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, the no...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c584GC (Link to this contribution) That is accepted. But the point is: how much death, disease and disability are involved? That is the...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c583-4GC (Link to this contribution) I want to return to a couple of things that the Minister said. I believe that the intellectual found...
Lord Monson | 680 c591GC (Link to this contribution) I support what the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, has just said. The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, I w...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c591GC (Link to this contribution) I am old enough to remember him too. I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, but he is re...
Lord Naseby | 680 c548GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord sits down, he may be privy to what the Government propose to do in regulations...
Lord Naseby | 680 c552GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness said that these were minor issues and that this was a matter of proportionality. ...
Lord Naseby | 680 c553GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Baroness. As a former Chairman of Ways and Means who took through th...
Lord Naseby | 680 c545-6GC (Link to this contribution) I have to say, Deputy Chairman, that it is an extraordinary committee where a noble Lord can rise an...
Lord Naseby | 680 c598GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Monson. We need to know what an extended period of time is. If it is ...
Lord Naseby | 680 c599-600GC (Link to this contribution) I would be grateful if the Minister would write. The Committee will look at the information with con...
Lord Naseby | 680 c596-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 6:"Page 2, line 14, leave out from ““person”” to ““, or”” in line 15 and insert ...
Lord Naseby | 680 c583GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for explaining that and I am very interested in what had happened unti...
Lord Naseby | 680 c548GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord uses the word himself.
Lord Naseby | 680 c541GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1:"Page 1, line 8, at end insert—" ““( ) This Chapter does not apply to any pr...
Lord Naseby | 680 c563-4GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord lectured us on sticking to the amendment. That amendment does not refer to the Labour...
Lord Naseby | 680 c576GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister have any information about the Nordic Bills and whether they exempt certain catego...
Lord Naseby | 680 c590GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee will notice that Amendment No. 18 is grouped. This must have been at the Government’s ...
Lord Naseby | 680 c593-4GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that the vote on membership clubs in the House of Commons reflected public opinion...
Lord Naseby | 680 c545GC (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Lord give way? It will be enormously helpful to other Members of the Committee if, wh...
Lord Naseby | 680 c541-4GC (Link to this contribution) I must say that I looked in my pigeonhole at precisely 20 minutes to two o’clock. My letter was two ...
Lord Naseby | 680 c562GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness questioned whether I was extending the debate. I point out to her that the Bill d...
Lord Naseby | 680 c569-70GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his apologies, which are of course accepted. My only difficulty is that I a...
Lord Naseby | 680 c577-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Lord Chairman. I do not want to pick up the amendments we have just dealt with, becau...
Lord Naseby | 680 c574GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, as I understand it—I may be entirely wrong—Sweden and the Nordic areas ...
Lord Naseby | 680 c582GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is falling into exactly the same trap. At least the other noble Lord has now accepted...
Lord Naseby | 680 c588GC (Link to this contribution) I want to clarify whether the noble Lord is speaking on behalf of the Liberal Party or whether it is...
Baroness Pitkeathley | 680 c600GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Monday 24th April at 3.30 pm.
Lord Monson | 680 c598GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that smoke lingers for a considerable time. Are we talking about one hour, two hou...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 680 c595-6GC (Link to this contribution) In my reply to the remarks on the amendment, I should begin by saying that I only ever saw Clement D...
Lord Monson | 680 c597GC (Link to this contribution) I support this amendment, although I do not think it goes far enough. I believe that if there are th...
Lord Luke | 680 c562GC (Link to this contribution) First, I state an interest. Like my noble friend, I am a member of the House Pipe and Cigar Smokers’...
Lord Geddes | 680 c559GC (Link to this contribution) That is almost word-for-word what the noble Lord said.
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 680 c568-9GC (Link to this contribution) I intervene very briefly. I hope the Minister will not misunderstand the remark that I am about to m...
Earl Howe | 680 c570-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 2:"Page 2, line 2, leave out ““any other substance”” and insert ““such other sub...
Lord Brabazon of Tara | 680 c570GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can assist the noble Lord. There are no votes in Grand Committee.
Lord Warner | 680 c566-7GC (Link to this contribution) I said before I made my remarks quoting that poll that it was a fast-changing situation. I was givin...
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c567-8GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, replies, I thank the Minister for his response on Amendment No. ...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c566GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister has repeated that statistic, and I challenged it. I said that other polls, most recentl...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c578-9GC (Link to this contribution) This is a wrap-up speech; I apologise for using the wrong words. Everything hinges on the harm that...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 680 c579-80GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee should be indebted to the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, for summarising extraordinarily ...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c581GC (Link to this contribution) In reply to the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, I wish that my teaching on political theory had had a bet...
Lord Warner | 680 c575-6GC (Link to this contribution) I was not proposing to engage in an auction of what else people might like to ban during the course ...
Lord Geddes | 680 c558-9GC (Link to this contribution) I have two questions for the Minister and I sincerely hope that he will be courteous enough to give ...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 680 c549GC (Link to this contribution) To say that they have suddenly changed their mind is stretching the facts a little. After they were ...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 680 c552GC (Link to this contribution) These instances relate to proportionality. In an emergency situation, such as when a building is str...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 680 c554-5GC (Link to this contribution) It is a long time since I was the pupil of the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, at university. Happily I ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c548-9GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, in his protest against Part 1 of this Bill being taken in Gra...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c547-8GC (Link to this contribution) I return to the purpose and content of the amendment that we are debating. This amendment is unneces...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c549GC (Link to this contribution) Well, you could have fooled me. In fact, when the Bill reached Report, the Secretary of State defend...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c549GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps that it is a bit harsh. I shall say ““hypocritical”” instead. Here is a Minister who is advo...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c552GC (Link to this contribution) This was not a question of being in an unsafe building; it was out in the open air, although of cour...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c552GC (Link to this contribution) : That intervention was, of course, very helpful. Those of us who have helped to prepare these amend...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c551GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, I said ““infest”” and I meant it, because they work under different conditions from British lor...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 680 c552-3GC (Link to this contribution) The argument on this amendment seems to be ranging far and wide. I listened to the noble Lord, Lord ...
Lord Warner | 680 c541GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord looks in his pigeonhole, I think that he will find that there is a reply there.
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c546GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord cannot be bothered to refer back to Second Reading, then I shall give the referenc...
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c545GC (Link to this contribution) We had a great debate on this. I remember debating it with the noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, on Second...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 680 c546-7GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Government for bringing forward the Bill and I will certainly support it. The only amend...
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville | 680 c558GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the Committee for being late, but there was a degree of ambiguity in the documents th...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c547GC (Link to this contribution) As we are on the subject of statistics, I have before me the following. According to the most recent...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c548GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is looking for the word ““na&-uml;ve””, I think.
Lord Pendry | 680 c550GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, has a very novel point of view when it comes to manifesto commitments...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c550-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am much obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Pendry, for his very helpful intervention. It is one thing...
Lord Geddes | 680 c559-60GC (Link to this contribution) I will read Hansard with great interest, as I am sure will other Members of the Grand Committee, bec...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 680 c559GC (Link to this contribution) I did not say that. What I said was that the manifesto commitment was subject to an extensive proces...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c560-1GC (Link to this contribution) One of the delights about the Committee stage is that you can speak as many times as you like until ...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 680 c561-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to test the Minister’s patience, but I did not know that we were going to enter into a de...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 680 c562GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that, but other people have mentioned Scotland. The Herald stated:"““Colin Cameron, who...
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c568GC (Link to this contribution) I am delighted the noble Lord has asked me that. The question was:"““A Government Bill in parliament...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c572GC (Link to this contribution) At first sight, I warmly support the amendments tabled by the noble Earl. There is one tricky diffic...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c570GC (Link to this contribution) I just wanted to clarify that situation because I think that a vote would be very useful. But I do n...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c570GC (Link to this contribution) Thank you. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c568GC (Link to this contribution) What was the question asked in the survey that the noble Lord just cited?
Lord Warner | 680 c563GC (Link to this contribution) I am not a naturally lugubrious person, as many who know me will acknowledge, but I have not heard a...
Lord Monson | 680 c576GC (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister claiming that asthmatics are not adversely affected by the smoke from bonfires?
Lord Warner | 680 c576GC (Link to this contribution) On the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Monson, I would not dream of making any such claim, but ...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c578GC (Link to this contribution) I very much support the amendment because I think this measure is based on a false prospectus. I agr...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 680 c572-3GC (Link to this contribution) I offer limited support to the noble Earl for this amendment. As I mentioned at Second Reading, the ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c574GC (Link to this contribution) All I| can say is that the chap from Yorkshire thinks it does—and I always take great notice of what...
Lord Luke | 680 c574GC (Link to this contribution) The Bill is concerned with lit tobacco. Can the Minister confirm that if I wished to chew tobacco wi...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c573-4GC (Link to this contribution) The issue raised here is interesting and important. It is true that quite a few people smoke herbal ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c574GC (Link to this contribution) Does the noble Lord accept that the history of medicine is littered with the broken reputations of t...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c576GC (Link to this contribution) I was not aware of the publications to which the Minister referred relating to the tar and hydrocarb...
Lord Monson | 680 c574-5GC (Link to this contribution) If the Government take the view that all smoke produced by combustion irritates people—and undoubted...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c554GC (Link to this contribution) I want to assist, once again, in the winkling-out process. All these clauses are based on arguments,...
Lord Palmer | 680 c557-8GC (Link to this contribution) If I may take issue with the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, the reason why we are taking so long over...
Lord Wakeham | 680 c555-7GC (Link to this contribution) It is more than 25 years since I last took part in the Committee stage of any Bill, certainly as a B...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c548GC (Link to this contribution) I immediately refute it. The matter is clear. I have no doubt that the Minister will explain it to u...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 680 c551-2GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has spoken at some length. I was looking through the list of amendments while he was ...
Baroness Howarth of Breckland | 680 c553-4GC (Link to this contribution) This is a very useful point. I believe that people have listened to the debates that have taken plac...
Viscount Simon | 680 c541GC (Link to this contribution) In the very unlikely event of a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adj...
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c544-5GC (Link to this contribution) Unlike the noble Earl, Lord Howe, I am pleased that this group of amendments dealing with the commen...
Earl Howe | 680 c544GC (Link to this contribution) I have tabled two amendments on this theme. I endorse the concerns so ably expressed by the noble Lo...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 680 c546GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord may also like to put on the record that the quoted figure of 10 million people still ...
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c546GC (Link to this contribution) In conclusion, I very much hope that the Minister will consider being very specific about the date o...
Earl Howe | 680 c546GC (Link to this contribution) Nevertheless, I put it to the noble Lord that the pubs that lobbied in the way that he suggested wer...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c597GC (Link to this contribution) I would like clarification on one point. If, for example, a person has an office in his garden, will...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c598GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that there were 4,000 harmful elements in ETS—environmental tobacco smoke. Is he a...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c597GC (Link to this contribution) I support what the noble Lord, Lord Monson, just said. It is ““more than one person””, which can mea...
Lord Warner | 680 c598GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot, but it is not relevant to this Bill.
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c585GC (Link to this contribution) I had not intended to challenge the words of the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, on this issue, but I wou...
Lord Warner | 680 c584GC (Link to this contribution) I just want to put on the record that they are not my words but are part of the scientific basis for...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c584GC (Link to this contribution) I want to finish this and I am being as quick as I can in getting through it. The Minister referred ...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c581GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, but not before we make a little progress on the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner....
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c592GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, I should like to ask him a question. I—and, no doubt, other Members—hav...
Lord Warner | 680 c592-3GC (Link to this contribution) I begin by complimenting the noble Lord, Lord Steel, on the brisk way in which he moved his amendmen...
Lord Monson | 680 c592GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Walton, makes a valid point about employees having to clear away ashtrays. The ...
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c591GC (Link to this contribution) I am very happy to be associated with Clement Davies, whom I suspect that my noble friend Lord Steel...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c591GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether it will do me any good, but I support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord St...
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c589-90GC (Link to this contribution) I feel that I should respond briefly. It pains me greatly to have to disagree with my noble friend, ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c591GC (Link to this contribution) I understand exactly why the noble Lord, Lord Steel, has proposed the amendment. What kind of physic...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 680 c586GC (Link to this contribution) First, I defend absolutely the right of any individual to smoke when they are alone, but I absolutel...
Lord Monson | 680 c594GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down, does he not agree that those who voted in the other place against clu...
Lord Warner | 680 c594GC (Link to this contribution) Any way you count the votes, the other place voted overwhelmingly for not exempting private members’...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c594GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister sits down, has he got any information on the decrease in inhalation of noxious s...
Lord Warner | 680 c593GC (Link to this contribution) I have not personally considered such systems, but I do not know if others have. I will be happy to ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c585-6GC (Link to this contribution) If we are debating clause stand part, we are questioning whether the clause in its entirety should s...
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c585GC (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord say which bit of clause stand part he is currently debating?
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c585GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the noble Lord had trouble with the Chief Whip—I do not know who it was—but he shoul...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c584-5GC (Link to this contribution) First, I very much resent the attempt to close this debate in this or any other Committee or forum o...
Lord Warner | 680 c584GC (Link to this contribution) Can I interrupt the noble Lord? They were not my words; they were the words of the WHO and are part ...
Lord Warner | 680 c583GC (Link to this contribution) I say to the noble Lord that there is a well established convention that Ministers do not lean on th...
Baroness Royall of Blaisdon | 680 c584GC (Link to this contribution) May I suggest that we move on to the next amendment?
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 680 c581-2GC (Link to this contribution) There are two answers to that. First, it is proved that ventilation does not work and, indeed, that ...
Lord Warner | 680 c582-3GC (Link to this contribution) Can we come back to the Bill? The noble Lord keeps asking for the sources. This is a Government Bill...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 680 c581GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Skidelsky, was a very good teacher but I think that his logic is failing him on...
Lord Warner | 680 c581GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may help the Committee by responding to the points that the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, raise...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c591-2GC (Link to this contribution) There is a system at airports whereby smoking rooms are set aside. They are public buildings; that w...
Lord Skidelsky | 680 c589GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment. My name is not down as a supporter but I completely agree with what the nob...
Lord Palmer | 680 c589GC (Link to this contribution) I too support the noble Lord, Lord Steel, and my noble friend Lord Monson. My noble friend Lord Skid...
Lord Monson | 680 c588-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am very glad that the heroic efforts of the noble Lord, Lord Steel, to make it back across the Cha...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c586GC (Link to this contribution) No, I have a lot more to say. No, please do not get up again until I have finished. Well, alright, i...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c587GC (Link to this contribution) There is a lot of other evidence. I come back to the original point that I, the noble Lord, Lord Ski...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 680 c587-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5:"Page 2, line 10, at beginning insert ““Except as provided in section (Premise...
Lord Clement-Jones | 680 c588GC (Link to this contribution) As a matter of information, the Liberal Party—and the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, knows this but is bei...
Lord Steel of Aikwood | 680 c588GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord should not try to cause trouble. I am in difficulty enough with my noble friends with...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 680 c593GC (Link to this contribution) Has the Minister considered ventilation systems which wash, rather than blow, smoke out, in the same...
Lord Warner | 680 c594GC (Link to this contribution) I was not citing public opinion on that issue. I outlined the three options, one of which was exempt...
Lord Monson | 680 c580-1GC (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, sits down, does he agree that, although Professor Sir Richard ...
Lord Warner | 680 c597-8GC (Link to this contribution) Adhering to my principle that I established at the beginning, I will deal with the issue of combined...
Subjects
Clubs Business Employment Housing Health Human rights Health hazards Exemptions Food Licensed premises Public places Public opinion Public houses Passive smoking Ventilation Tobacco Working conditions Smoking Vehicles
Legislation
Health Bill 2005-06
Link
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