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Fuel Poverty Bill

Secondary information

Type

Parliamentary proceeding

Reference

489 c1136-206 

Session

2008-09

Department

Department of Energy and Climate Change

Legislative stage

Second reading

Procedure

Private members' bills proceedings

Chamber / Committee

House of Commons chamber

Related items

Fuel Poverty Bill.
Wednesday, 21 January 2009
Bills
House of Commons

Proceeding contributions

Simon Hughes | 489 c1185-8 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will be brief, as the Minister and possibly other colleague...

Janet Anderson | 489 c1188 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Show all contributions (162)

Simon Hughes | 489 c1188 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. I hope that today we will have the conviction to give the Bill a Second Reading and...

Jim McGovern | 489 c1188-91 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) on his Bill, which deals with a ve...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1191 (Link to this contribution) The Government's flagship tool, the carbon emissions reduction target, is the largest domestic energ...

Jim McGovern | 489 c1191-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely. "Global" has become something of a buzz word recently, but what we in the UK are t...

David Heath | 489 c1192 (Link to this contribution) claimed to move the closure (Standing Order No. 36). Question put forthwith, That the Question be n...

Emily Thornberry | 489 c1193-5 (Link to this contribution) May I begin by apologising for not being able to be here earlier today? I had a surgery in my consti...

Simon Hughes | 489 c1195 (Link to this contribution) To clarify the point that I made earlier, I was extolling the virtues of council housing, rather tha...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1180 (Link to this contribution) The interpretation under the Climate Change Act would be much more in line with what Mr. Justice McC...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1182 (Link to this contribution) I think that the Bill does identify fuel-poor households. I certainly do not quibble with the defini...

Lord Horam | 489 c1182 (Link to this contribution) Is it not the case that any duty that the Government have is restrained, inevitably, by the resource...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1181-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has not been present for most of the debate, but earlier we heard about the efforts t...

Janet Anderson | 489 c1182 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is, of course, much more expert in matters of the law than I am, but is he saying tha...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1184-5 (Link to this contribution) Of course I do. I said at the beginning of the debate that I agree with the thrust of what the hon. ...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1182-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right as far as the law stands. That is exactly what the High Court said in th...

David Heath | 489 c1184 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman support the Government's policy of eradicating fuel poverty by 2016? There i...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1203-4 (Link to this contribution) We are putting £350 million into a new community energy-saving programme. Adjustments are being made...

Simon Hughes | 489 c1204 (Link to this contribution) The Minister will be aware that we have six minutes left. The Conservative Front-Bench team, my hon....

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1204 (Link to this contribution) I will check the record but I do not feel that I have spoken longer than other people. I have taken ...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1205 (Link to this contribution) If we had not lost a quarter of an hour or 20 minutes on the fruitless Division earlier, my hon. Fri...

Charles Hendry | 489 c1203 (Link to this contribution) My point was that although the Government might have put £100 million back into the scheme, there is...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1205 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I want to get to the crucial part of the debate, which...

David Heath | 489 c1205 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady knows perfectly well that I have already said that this is a matter that we can discus...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1205-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has completely ignored the points that have been made consistently from the Labou...

David Heath | 489 c1196 (Link to this contribution) This is a crucial part of the argument between us. The Minister says that the Bill is incompatible w...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1197-8 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's willingness to work with the Government. Unfortunately, I think th...

Emily Thornberry | 489 c1195-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. Let me refer him to the case of another individual who contacte...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1196 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Emily ...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1203 (Link to this contribution) Warm Front has been a real success, but the Minister will have heard the various concerns expressed ...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1203 (Link to this contribution) I will, as it is absolutely my intention to respond to the debate, which I will do in just a few min...

Simon Hughes | 489 c1198 (Link to this contribution) I think that my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) would be willing to consid...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1198-203 (Link to this contribution) May I explain why I find it difficult to accept that? The opportunity was there in the Bill. We have...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1198 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may have noticed that it was the will of the House that I have only just begun my...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1165 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention; he normally charges for his wise words on a fa...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1165 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) calls the Bill aspirational and permissive, and I...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1164-5 (Link to this contribution) The Roman Catholic Church does not sell indulgences any more. However, I am always prepared to consi...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1165 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that it is unnecessary to point out that, even if that sad eventuality were to come about,...

Frank Dobson | 489 c1165 (Link to this contribution) As someone who is in favour of getting votes in his constituency, I must rush to point out that I wo...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1165 (Link to this contribution) The thought of the Secretary of State being banged up might appeal to some Members, although it does...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1165 (Link to this contribution) The answer to my hon. Friend's question is that, if the Government were not fulfilling their duty un...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1166 (Link to this contribution) In fact, if he were banged up, he ought to be able to vote, because of the case of Hirst v. the Unit...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1166 (Link to this contribution) A voice, as if from the ether, tells me that he could not.

Janet Anderson | 489 c1161 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend refers to a matter of concern to all of us in Lancashire. I would like to put on reco...

Lindsay Hoyle | 489 c1160-1 (Link to this contribution) I believe that we have to get prices down for consumers. The price of energy needs to drop. I am con...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1161-2 (Link to this contribution) I want to make a similar point to that made by my hon. Friend the Member for Rossendale and Darwen (...

Lindsay Hoyle | 489 c1161 (Link to this contribution) I totally agree with that, and with the point that my hon. Friend makes about the Minister. We want ...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1162 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that one possible solution would be to allow our constituents, should they...

Lindsay Hoyle | 489 c1162 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend, and my hon. Friend the Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Jan...

Speaker | 489 c1163 (Link to this contribution) Order. I am hesitant to interrupt these remarks, because they are broadly speaking within the contex...

Lindsay Hoyle | 489 c1163 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for those guidelines. The two issues are interrelated: fuel poverty ...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1163-4 (Link to this contribution) As always, it is an honour to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Chorley (Mr. Hoyle). Normally whe...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1180 (Link to this contribution) As I said earlier in response to an intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North, I s...

Emily Thornberry | 489 c1180 (Link to this contribution) If judges ordered Ministers to spend all their budget on ensuring that we reach the target and Minis...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1179-80 (Link to this contribution) I am not saying that, because the policy would be set out in the Bill and the Government would bring...

Janet Anderson | 489 c1179 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend saying that if the Bill is passed judges would decide national policy on fuel pove...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1178-9 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I referred to one of the unintended conse...

David Heath | 489 c1177-8 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I do believe there should be an overall duty. However, if the hon. Gentleman recalls, I pointed...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1177 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, I share my hon. Friend's concerns about fuel poverty and I am glad to see him in his plac...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1176-7 (Link to this contribution) I begin by congratulating the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) on bringing in his Bill...

David Heath | 489 c1180 (Link to this contribution) May I bring the hon. Gentleman back to my earlier intervention? Will he tell me how my proposals dif...

Charles Hendry | 489 c1171-2 (Link to this contribution) I begin by joining other Members in paying tribute to the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. He...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1166-71 (Link to this contribution) We heard earlier that the temperature in Dartmoor was rather chilly. I hope that the windows would h...

Charles Hendry | 489 c1172 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the Minister's intervention, which gives me an opportunity to put on the record my...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1172 (Link to this contribution) May I just refer the hon. Gentleman to section 2(1) of the Warm Homes and Energy Conservation Act 20...

Speaker | 489 c1166 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think that we are now straying a little way away from the Bill.

Stephen Pound | 489 c1166 (Link to this contribution) Everybody in the House knew that.

Frank Dobson | 489 c1166 (Link to this contribution) Would the Secretary of State be banged up in a well-insulated cell?

Stephen Pound | 489 c1166 (Link to this contribution) This was a matter of such common moment that it was hardly necessary even to refer to it.

Stephen Pound | 489 c1172 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to pay tribute to the Minister. I hope that he will also mention the wor...

Charles Hendry | 489 c1172-6 (Link to this contribution) In the spirit of cross-party support and encouragement, I am more than happy to recognise the work o...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1156 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman is slightly widening the scope of the debate, but in an interesting w...

Geoffrey Cox | 489 c1156 (Link to this contribution) I will be entirely frank. Yes, I would consider the removal of child benefit from those in the highe...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1155 (Link to this contribution) It might be useful for me to respond at this point to the questions raised by the hon. and learned G...

Geoffrey Cox | 489 c1155-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for those assurances, but many voices have been warning the Government...

Geoffrey Cox | 489 c1154-5 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) on introducing the Bill and suppor...

Geoffrey Cox | 489 c1160 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a very good speech. Does he feel, as I do, that there is something anom...

Lindsay Hoyle | 489 c1159-60 (Link to this contribution) I welcome this important Fuel Poverty Bill. The Government have difficulties with the issue, but thi...

Fiona Mactaggart | 489 c1157-9 (Link to this contribution) They are not identical, but there is a relatively easy fix and we should take it. That situation is ...

David Heath | 489 c1157 (Link to this contribution) I should hate the hon. Lady to think that I pooh-poohed her suggestion. I did not. A lot of people a...

Fiona Mactaggart | 489 c1157 (Link to this contribution) I must apologise to the House; Herschel grammar school in my constituency is receiving an award late...

Lembit Opik | 489 c1151 (Link to this contribution) Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of another unintended by-product of the extraordinary fluctuation ...

Frank Dobson | 489 c1151-2 (Link to this contribution) We all have to recognise, though, that that will leave the Government bound by any decision that we ...

Oliver Heald | 489 c1152 (Link to this contribution) Of course, the right hon. Gentleman is putting a case for the little guy. I invite him to comment on...

Frank Dobson | 489 c1152 (Link to this contribution) I am saying that it would be affordable, and if we introduced a windfall tax just on Shell and BP, w...

Frank Dobson | 489 c1153 (Link to this contribution) Only international intervention would decouple the relationship. Up to now, it seems to have suited ...

Albert Owen | 489 c1153 (Link to this contribution) I did not intend to speak about nuclear power, because I have done so on many occasions. I fully sup...

Frank Dobson | 489 c1152-3 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that that is the case. I can remember being mocked by the people then sitting on the Gover...

Lindsay Hoyle | 489 c1152 (Link to this contribution) Somebody ought to tell Sid how we got it wrong when we sold those utilities off, but that is another...

Frank Dobson | 489 c1153 (Link to this contribution) We have a civil nuclear power programme. The biggest problem with a further civil nuclear power prog...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1153 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend both for giving way and for sharing with the House some of the...

Paul Burstow | 489 c1137 (Link to this contribution) I too am grateful to my hon. Friend, and congratulate him on selecting this Bill. In my constituency...

David Heath | 489 c1137 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for what he has said. It underlines a point to which I shall return ...

David Heath | 489 c1136 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. I have religiously put in for the private M...

Fiona Mactaggart | 489 c1136 (Link to this contribution) When is my perseverance going to be rewarded?

David Heath | 489 c1136 (Link to this contribution) And no doubt other Members' perseverance will be rewarded in due course. Having appeared as No. 2 o...

Lembit Opik | 489 c1136 (Link to this contribution) My constituents are very grateful to my hon. Friend, because the Bill stands to assist thousands of ...

David Heath | 489 c1137 (Link to this contribution) I am very tempted to pursue the hon. Gentleman's logic, but I have to say that I have had extremely ...

Lindsay Hoyle | 489 c1137 (Link to this contribution) Of course fuel poverty affects rural areas, but it affects rural and urban areas alike. No Member ha...

David Heath | 489 c1137 (Link to this contribution) That was a helpful intervention. If there is one place that those in ignorance might consider less l...

Baroness Burt of Solihull | 489 c1137 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that my hon. Friend is presenting this Bill. The hon. Member for Chorley (Mr. Hoyle) ...

David Heath | 489 c1138 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good point. The—I have forgotten what the commission on rural areas is called. Could ...

Albert Owen | 489 c1137-8 (Link to this contribution) My constituency, like the hon. Gentleman's, contains a mixture of rural, urban and semi-rural areas....

David Heath | 489 c1138 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has identified one of my key proposals. The Bill does not merely propose a basic ...

Oliver Heald | 489 c1138 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on introducing the Bill. Does he agree that a major economic oppor...

David Heath | 489 c1137 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I shall say more about that issue shortly. I believe that the mi...

Sandra Gidley | 489 c1139 (Link to this contribution) I too welcome the Bill, but is my hon. Friend aware of the briefing from the Energy Retail Associati...

David Heath | 489 c1139 (Link to this contribution) I am going to deal with the Government's position in a moment. I think that the Government are takin...

Mark Hunter | 489 c1139 (Link to this contribution) I add my personal congratulations on the service that my hon. Friend has done all of us by introduci...

David Heath | 489 c1138-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I am not sure what the vernacular building material is in his ar...

Annette Brooke | 489 c1140 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?

David Heath | 489 c1140 (Link to this contribution) I agree. There are people benefiting from schemes at the moment who are not in fuel poverty. Others ...

David Drew | 489 c1140 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has probably been talking to the same energy companies as I have. I will not ment...

David Heath | 489 c1140 (Link to this contribution) First, there is quite a difference in performance between some energy suppliers and others. Secondly...

Danny Alexander | 489 c1138 (Link to this contribution) While my hon. Friend is on the subject of hard-to-treat homes, particularly those that rely on fuel ...

David Heath | 489 c1138 (Link to this contribution) I must make progress but I am happy to take interventions at this stage.

David Heath | 489 c1142 (Link to this contribution) That is a very interesting observation. First, one wonders why the council feels it has no duty of c...

Roger Williams | 489 c1142 (Link to this contribution) I have discovered that a number of people living in social housing in my constituency use LPG. It is...

Alan Reid | 489 c1143 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend on introducing the Bill. I want to emphasise the point made by the two...

David Heath | 489 c1141-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It is one of the tragedies at the moment that some of our poores...

Annette Brooke | 489 c1141 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way, and I congratulate him on introducing the Bill. He has presen...

David Heath | 489 c1142 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right.

Lord Beith | 489 c1142 (Link to this contribution) I am glad my hon. Friend has mentioned the people who are not on the gas network and who rely on Cal...

David Heath | 489 c1140 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend forgive me for a moment? I will come back to her but I should get to the end of ...

David Heath | 489 c1140-1 (Link to this contribution) Not many. This is what the Bill does. It offers a strategy to eliminate fuel poverty by 2016, to tr...

Simon Hughes | 489 c1140 (Link to this contribution) How many pages are there?

David Howarth | 489 c1145 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend on introducing this Bill. I understand the circumstances of a private ...

David Heath | 489 c1144-5 (Link to this contribution) May I just deal with these issues for the moment? The most important is the one to which the hon. Me...

David Heath | 489 c1144 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, for signing the early-day motion that sta...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1144 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on introducing his Bill, which I assume he is now getting on to di...

David Heath | 489 c1144 (Link to this contribution) It is very noticeable that the SNP Members are not here today. I would have thought this matter ough...

Jim McGovern | 489 c1144 (Link to this contribution) May I take the hon. Gentleman back a couple of minutes to when he mentioned the impact of his Bill o...

David Heath | 489 c1143-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. Opinions differ—suppliers are not all united—...

Michael Moore | 489 c1143 (Link to this contribution) May I be the latest in a long line of colleagues from all parts of the House to compliment my hon. F...

David Heath | 489 c1143 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right, and I suspect that in the highlands and islands, part of which my hon. Fri...

David Heath | 489 c1145 (Link to this contribution) I do not think I am being at all vague about it. I am merely saying that I am hopeful, even despite ...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1145-6 (Link to this contribution) I simply wish to reiterate what the hon. Gentleman has just stated, because that is, indeed, the pol...

David Heath | 489 c1146 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that my Bill is absolutist in any sense of the word, although we shall discuss that fu...

David Heath | 489 c1146 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting discussion that I will be happy to have in Committee. I do not want to resile...

Paul Robert Holmes | 489 c1146 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has said that this is not a new issue, and he gave some examples from recent years. I...

David Heath | 489 c1146-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend underlines why simply having good intentions is not enough. We have all had good inte...

Janet Anderson | 489 c1147 (Link to this contribution) How much will that compromise on band C cost, and where will the funding come from?

David Heath | 489 c1147 (Link to this contribution) My compromise would save money, and the Government were concerned about the cost. According to the F...

Stephen Pound | 489 c1147 (Link to this contribution) Pursuant to the intervention by my hon. Friend the Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Janet Anderson)...

David Heath | 489 c1147-8 (Link to this contribution) I cannot give the House any provenance for the figures quoted by civil servants, because they do not...

David Heath | 489 c1148 (Link to this contribution) If the Minister looks at the figures, I believe she will find that the percentages are slightly diff...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1148 (Link to this contribution) I assure the hon. Gentleman that I am not confused. His Bill suggests that the counting must begin i...

David Heath | 489 c1148 (Link to this contribution) That is part of our party's policy, but this is a permissive Bill. It would allow the Secretary of S...

Joan Ruddock | 489 c1148 (Link to this contribution) DECC was sent a paper yesterday by the Association for the Conservation of Energy, which is a report...

David Heath | 489 c1149-50 (Link to this contribution) The original estimate was based on reaching band B, but I do not think that there would be a huge di...

Frank Dobson | 489 c1150-1 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) on his good fortune in doing well ...

David Heath | 489 c1148 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady uses estimates which I accept are probably accurate. What she has not mentioned is the...

John Leech | 489 c1148 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend assessed what effect the compromise position, if it were adopted, would have on t...

Simon Hughes | 489 c1185 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to follow the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) and to discover such broad support aro...

Paul Burstow | 489 c1198 (Link to this contribution) In the remainder of her speech will the Minister make clear to the House her and the Government's in...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1166 (Link to this contribution) No, he could not.

Frank Dobson | 489 c1164 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps you could buy indulgences.

Kelvin Hopkins | 489 c1177 (Link to this contribution) I am not a lawyer but I support the principles of the Bill. I desperately want to see fuel poverty e...

Danny Alexander | 489 c1138 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend give way?

Lindsay Hoyle | 489 c1148 (Link to this contribution) People are concerned about where the money will come from. I think that we should have a windfall ta...

Lynne Jones | 489 c1180-1 (Link to this contribution) I understand my hon. Friend's point, but it is clear that previous fuel poverty targets and the best...

Andrew Dismore | 489 c1146 (Link to this contribution) I assume that the answer to my previous question is therefore yes—that it is intended to be fully ju...

Subjects

Cold weather payments Costs Conservation Housing Energy Fuel poverty Insulation Fuels Warm front scheme Low incomes Meters Prices Private rented housing Standards Rural areas EAGA Social tariffs

Legislation

Fuel Poverty Bill 2008-09

Link

View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk