Debate on bill on Monday, 30 January 2006, in the House of Lords.

Identity Cards Bill 2005-06

Identity Cards Bill. Lords Report stage third day. Concluded. Bill printed as amended (HL Bill 71).

Secondary information

Type: Parliamentary proceeding
Reference: 678 c11-102
Session: 2005-06
Department: Home Office
Legislative stage: Report stage
Procedure: Government defeats; New clauses; Equality of votes
Chamber / Committee: House of Lords chamber
Related items: Identity Cards Bill. As amended in Committee (HL).
Monday, 19 December 2005
Bills
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions: Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c85 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, one does not have to agree with all the views of the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, ...; Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 678 c85-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we should be indebted to the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, for his research into th...; Lord Selsdon | 678 c80-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I cannot agree with the latter hedging by the Minister. If the passport is the ultimate id...; Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 678 c81-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 111A:"Before Clause 41, insert the following new clause—" ““PARLIAMENTARY CONT...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c87 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall be very brief as it has all been said. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Pearson, for t...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c87-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Pearson of Rannoch, for outlining with his usual clarity why ...; Lord Selsdon | 678 c86 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as the noble Lords, Lord Pearson and Lord Stoddart, know, all passports in Europe at the m...; Earl of Northesk | 678 c87 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it may benefit the House and help the noble Lords, Lord Stoddart and Lord Pearson, if, in ...; Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 678 c89-90 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in that case, I am sure that when it comes to read Hansard with attention and enthusiasm—a...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c93 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 115:"Page 36, line 15, leave out subsection (8)." On Question, amendment agreed...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c93 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for the noble Lord’s reply and I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, ...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c94-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I may or may not be able to give the noble Lord an answer to his last question; studying t...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c93-4 (Link to this contribution) moved manuscript Amendment No. 116A:"Page 36, line 43, at end insert—" ( ) ““““consent”” in se...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c90 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 112 to 114:"Page 35, line 26, leave out from beginning to ““be”” in line 27 an...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c92-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, and the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, for r...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c91-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I speak in support of Amendment 114A to which I have added my name. I am extremely gratefu...; Lord Pearson of Rannoch | 678 c89 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the noble Baroness sits down, and before I reply and decide what to do with the ame...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c89 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I know the noble Lord is a wily fox who has been trying to lead poor Ministers astray, to ...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c95-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 120:"Page 38, line 10, leave out paragraph (e) and insert—" ““(e) the accept...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c95 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 117 and 118:"Page 37, line 27, after ““resides”””” insert ““and cognate expres...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c101 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Northesk, for drawing the European Union directive o...; Earl of Northesk | 678 c99-101 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 121A:"Page 39, line 18, at beginning insert ““Subject to subsection (3A),””" Th...; Baroness Noakes | 678 c99 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 121:"Page 39, line 18, at beginning insert ““Subject to section (Commencement: r...; Lord Selsdon | 678 c97-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am sorry, I am totally tone-deaf and I cannot really dance. But I did win the dancing pr...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c97 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his kind invitation. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Thomas o...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c97 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I was intrigued that my noble friend seemed able to find a new way of trying to alter the ...; Lord Thomas of Gresford | 678 c97 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am an inadequate replacement for the noble Lord, Lord Phillips. Perhaps I may pay tribut...; Lord Selsdon | 678 c96-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 120A:"Page 39, line 15, leave out ““Cards”” and insert ““Register””" The noble ...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c95 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as always I am grateful to the Minister and I am sorry that I had to raise that nasty ques...; Earl of Northesk | 678 c101 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply. I am conscious that this is our last amendment to deba...; Baroness Noakes | 678 c101-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 123:"After Clause 45, insert the following new clause—" ““COMMENCEMENT: REPORT...; Baroness Noakes | 678 c101 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 122:"Page 39, line 18, after ““section”” insert ““, section (Commencement: repor...; Earl of Erroll | 678 c19 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it seems to me that the amendment is merely trying to define that the civil servants who w...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c18-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the intentions behind the noble Lord’s amendment, although I do not support the ...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am thankful for the Minister’s remarks. To clear up one legal point that she raised, I b...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c19-20 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think that the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, pre-shadowed my response to why thi...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c20-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 74A:"Page 21, line 17, at end insert—" ““( ) The Secretary of State must n...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c20 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendments Nos. 73 and 74:"Page 21, line 6, leave out ““by the prescribed person in the prescr...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c22 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. As I explained, this was for clarification. Most people who...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c21-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I shall be very happy to seek to do so. The noble Baroness is right to refer to the conten...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c17-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 72D:"Page 20, line 35, at end insert ““; and" (c) requiring the persons refe...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c16-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 72:"Page 19, line 43, leave out ““for being”” and insert ““to be””" On Question...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c16 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 70:"Page 19, line 8, leave out ““of a person with”” and insert ““to a person of”...; Lord Selsdon | 678 c28 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, one thing I know about my noble friend Lord Northesk is that he has, over many years, been...; Earl of Onslow | 678 c27-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, on the question of protecting the public, one should be seriously worried about the desire...; Earl of Erroll | 678 c27 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reassurance. I hope that someone out there reads it and pu...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c27 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hate to interrupt the noble Lord, but I made it plain in answering a recent Question in ...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c29 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Earl, Lord Northesk, has tabled a practical amendment that gets to the heart of ...; Bishop of St Albans | 678 c28-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I seek clarification on the relationship between identity cards and various government dep...; Earl of Northesk | 678 c23-6 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 76:"After Clause 23, insert the following new clause—" ““FUNCTIONS OF THE SECR...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c22 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 75:"Page 21, line 19, leave out ““authorised”” and insert ““that he is authorise...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c16 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord. My satisfaction is more than entire. On Question, a...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c16 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 68:"Page 18, line 21, at end insert—" ““( ) The Secretary of State must no...; Baroness Seccombe | 678 c16 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for explaining Amendment No. 65. We realise that it was an inno...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c15-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am certainly happy to look at the matter, but, as I said earlier, the safeguard exists t...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c14-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, before the noble Baroness sits down, I thank her for her explanation of all these matters;...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c13-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, is right in saying that government Amendment No. 65, whic...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c12-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I should like to make a comment about the proposed removal of the subsection by reference ...; Baroness Seccombe | 678 c11-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 66A:"Page 16, line 38, leave out paragraph (a)." The noble Baroness said: My Lo...; Earl of Erroll | 678 c59 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fully agree with the noble Lord, Lord Phillips. It is a practical proposal that could we...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c59-61 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am certainly grateful for the brevity of the contributions on this amendment. I shall en...; Earl of Northesk | 678 c61 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. As I made plain in my introduction to the amendment, I...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c62 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 98:"Page 25, line 43, after first ““he”” insert ““knowingly or recklessly””" Th...; Earl of Northesk | 678 c58-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 93:"After Clause 26, insert the following new clause—" ““TECHNICAL ADVISORY BO...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c59 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fully support my noble friend. The amendment follows a recommendation of the Constitutio...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c59 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, we on these Benches also think that there is much practical merit in the amendment.; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c62-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, indeed, we regularly share our heartfelt sympathy. It is just that we do not seem to be ab...; Earl of Northesk | 678 c63-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it may be of convenience to the House if I could speak in this group to Amendment No. 100,...; Earl of Erroll | 678 c52 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there is an old saying that just because you are paranoid does not mean they are not out t...; Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 678 c52-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, as a former member of the other place, I should like to say a couple of words in support o...; Earl of Onslow | 678 c52 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the concept of identity cards is so alien to British history—for several of us, it is extr...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c52 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I rise briefly to support the amendment wholeheartedly. I apologise to the noble Lord, Lor...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c49-50 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I fear that my legal intelligence may be much exercised and long in years, but it has alwa...; Lord Crickhowell | 678 c50-2 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 85:"Page 22, line 26, leave out ““make a report to the Secretary of State”” and ...; Lord Crickhowell | 678 c55 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her response. I noted her description of the modern Home...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c57-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. *85A:"Page 22, line 28, leave out subsections (2) to (5) and insert—" ““( ) ...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c53 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I strongly support my noble friend’s amendment, to which I have added my name. The Constit...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c53-5 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have listened very carefully to the arguments in support of these amendments. However, a...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c39-40 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, that is a neat point. However, as I said in addressing the issue precisely when considerin...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c40 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister. I am also grateful for that Exocet from the noble and learn...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c42-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 77:"Page 21, line 37, at end insert—""( ) Where the Commissioner reviews any...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c45-6 (Link to this contribution) moved, as an amendment to Amendment No. 77, Amendment No. 78:"Line 2, after ““arrangements”” insert ...; Lord Crickhowell | 678 c46-8 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when, on the sixth day in Committee, amendments were moved to ensure that the commissioner...; Earl of Onslow | 678 c48 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, it seems to me that unless the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, reg...; Earl of Erroll | 678 c48 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I seem to remember that the whole point about the previous amendment was that the Informat...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c48-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I too thank the Government for tabling their amendment. It meets the commitment in their l...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c49 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I hope I can clarify the issue in relation to ““uses””. The uses to which ID cards are put...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c31-4 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have listened with great care and interest to all the comments that have been made. I th...; Earl of Northesk | 678 c34 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her response. I am also grateful to all noble Lords who ...; Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 678 c29-30 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I congratulate the noble Earl, Lord Northesk, on tabling this amendment. I should have tho...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c30-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support my noble friend’s important amendment, which gives practical clarity to the prov...; Lord Crickhowell | 678 c38 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, in the later group to which the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, referred I will be s...; Lord Ackner | 678 c38 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I strongly support the principle, which has just been elegantly announced.; Lord Falconer of Thoroton | 678 c36-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, there have voted: Contents, 155; Not-Contents, 155. There being an equality of votes, in a...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c37-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 76A:"Page 21, line 24, leave out ““Secretary of State must”” and insert ““crown ...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c38 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I add my support to this amendment, moved with such commendable brevity. I think the impor...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c38-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Phillips of Sudbury, and other noble Lords have very adequately set o...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c73 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 109:"Page 35, line 10, leave out ““authorised by this section which modifies”” a...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c73-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 110:"Page 35, line 12, at end insert—" ““( ) A statutory instrument contai...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c79-80 (Link to this contribution) My Lords—I almost said ““my Lady””, another Freudian slip—it would be possible, if one was moving fr...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c79 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am completely foxed. What happens to the person in transition between two gender states?...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c79 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I absolutely understood what the noble Lord, Lord Selsdon, was getting at.; Lord Selsdon | 678 c79 (Link to this contribution) That was an unfortunate Freudian slip, my Lords, for which I apologise.; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c78-9 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Selsdon, in moving his amendment, gave an excellent demonstration of ...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c78 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I have some sympathy with that. The difficulty is that I cannot accept my noble friend Lor...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c78 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, maybe we could replace the whole Bill with this clause. If this is about identity cards—it...; Lord Selsdon | 678 c74-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 111:"After Clause 40, insert the following new clause—" ““PROOF OF IDENTITY (1...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c72 (Link to this contribution) had given notice of his intention to move Amendment No. 106A:"Line 2, leave out from ““section”” to ...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c73 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 108:"Page 32, line 39, leave out ““only”” and insert ““and" (b) on every sub...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c73 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I think there is a bit of a muddle here in the groupings. Government Amendment No. 106 is ...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c73 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, if that be so, I have lost my chance with Amendment No. 106A, have I not?; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c73 (Link to this contribution) We have, my Lords; it is a Government amendment that has been approved. It was dealt with in an earl...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c73 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I sit down a disappointed Lord.; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c73 (Link to this contribution) You have.; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c73 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 107:"Page 32, line 37, leave out ““authorised by subsection (1) is exercisable””...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c73 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that there is no trickery on our part; I am just following procedu...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c72 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 106:"Page 31, line 25, at end insert—""2 ( ) A statutory instrument contai...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c72 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful for that further explanation. I really do not understand the line of reasoni...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c67-9 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 101A:"Page 29, line 8, after ““notice”” insert ““(after warning)””" The noble L...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c67 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her assurances. I am perfectly well aware that the...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c66-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I commend the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, for his opposition to Amendment No. 100. It is ra...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c71-2 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am interested that the noble Lord thinks he is malleable. I have not noticed him being p...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c71 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his helpful reply. I shall make two points. First, the M...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c70-1 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, not for the first time, we are grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Phillips, for his amendmen...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c69-70 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support the noble Lord on Amendment No. 101A and the whole issue of the warning. I do no...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c11 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill be now further considered on Report. Moved accordingly, and, ...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c11 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 65:"Page 15, line 41, at end insert—" ““( ) Regulations under this section...; Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 678 c11 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 66:"Page 16, line 12, leave out ““by the prescribed person in the prescribed man...; Baroness Anelay of St Johns | 678 c11 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I am concerned about the confusion which may have arisen at the beginning of proceedings t...; Earl of Erroll | 678 c26-7 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I support this amendment; if I had been a bit more organised, I would have added my name t...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c62 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, when the noble Baroness says,"““as if we needed another Home Office Bill””," I think the ...; Lord Ackner | 678 c39 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, the Minister accepted that this might relate to perception. Is it not the Government’s vie...; Lord Crickhowell | 678 c29 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, my noble friend Lord Northesk rightly said that I gave strong support to him on this issue...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c72-3 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I thought the noble Lord had disposed with the group that started with amendment No. 102. ...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c65-6 (Link to this contribution) My Lords, subject to anything that the noble Baroness may say, it would seem to me to be just if Ame...; Lord Phillips of Sudbury | 678 c90-1 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 114A:"Page 35, line 35, at end insert ““; and" (d) to make special provision...; Lord Bassam of Brighton | 678 c16 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 69:"Page 19, line 1, leave out ““of a person with”” and insert ““to a person of”...
Subjects: Complaints Disability Disclosure of information Data protection Databases Codes of practice CCTV Biometrics Costs ICT Genetics EU law Identity cards European communities Internet Ethnic groups Personal records Public appointments Photographs Nationality National identity register Proof of identity Passports Prescriptions Registration Surveillance Hacking Office of the Identity Commissioner Driving licences Transgender people
Legislation: Identity Cards Bill 2005-06
Link: View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk

Identity Cards Bill 2005-06

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