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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Monday, 18 December 2006, in the House of Lords.

Consumers, Estate Agents and Redress Bill [HL]

Consumers, Estate Agents and Redress Bill (HL). Lords debate stage first day. Clauses 1 to 12 agreed to. Schedule 1 agreed to. Grand Committee held in the Moses Room.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
687 c139-92GC 
Session
2006-07
Department
Department of Trade and Industry
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Martin Caton | 454 c889 (Link to this contribution) Local Planning Authorities (Energy and Energy Efficiency) Bill. Presentation and first reading.
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c188GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord raised some very interesting points on these amendments. We have entered the territor...
Show all contributions (113)
Lord Whitty | 687 c178GC (Link to this contribution) I strongly support the amendment. I hope that the Government accept it or come up with something equ...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 687 c191GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise; it is completely my fault. We were due to stop after Amendment No. 69. Perhaps if we ar...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 687 c148GC (Link to this contribution) Can I pursue this matter? Surely the point is that the legislation under which those bodies currentl...
Lord Williams of Elvel | 687 c151GC (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my noble friend Lord Whitty will be able to represent my arguments properly and get a...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c157GC (Link to this contribution) For probably the first time in Grand Committee, I am sorry that we cannot vote. I have included some...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c157GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 14: Page 47, line 29, leave out paragraph 29. The noble Baroness said: Again,...
Lord Borrie | 687 c168GC (Link to this contribution) I have some comments on Amendment No. 15, tabled by my noble friend Lord O’Neill, and Amendment No. ...
Viscount Allenby of Megiddo | 687 c140GC (Link to this contribution) If the Committee agrees, I think that we should try to sort this out before we proceed; otherwise, t...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 687 c142-4GC (Link to this contribution) I inform my noble friend that one of the functions of Committees of this nature—it will be done in o...
Baroness Wilcox | 687 c180GC (Link to this contribution) I do not like the answer; but it is the answer I have been given. There is nothing more that I can s...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 687 c185GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 64: Page 7, line 23, at end insert- ““( ) Where it appears to the Council to b...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c190GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to intervene but I was informed just now that we were stopping after the previous set of ...
Baroness Wilcox | 687 c187-8GC (Link to this contribution) Not for the first time today, my amendments are grouped with those of the noble Lord, Lord O’Neill. ...
Lord Truscott | 687 c188-90GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment Nos. 64 and 66, in the name of my noble friend Lord O’Neill, would permit the council—wher...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c180GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend. We are back to the type of amendment that we had at the beginning of the ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c177GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 40: Page 4, line 37, leave out from ““must”” to second ““to”” inline 38 and in...
Lord De Mauley | 687 c177GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, and my noble friend Lord Selbo...
Baroness Wilcox | 687 c179GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 46: Page 6, line 13, leave out ““may”” and insert ““must”” The noble Baroness...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c191GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise for that. I was told that we were going to stop but there has obviously been a misunders...
Lord Truscott | 687 c148-50GC (Link to this contribution) I am aware of the passions that this issue raises, but if I am to be interrupted after every sentenc...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c155GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister just said ““in the draft Bill””. Is this a draft Bill or a Bill? If it is a draft Bill,...
Lord Truscott | 687 c155GC (Link to this contribution) It is of course a Bill, which has been drafted. But, clearly, before us is a Bill.
Lord Truscott | 687 c155-7GC (Link to this contribution) I do not agree that it is sloppily worded. Perhaps I may comment on the amendments before us and dea...
Lord Truscott | 687 c162-4GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to the amendments relating to Energywatch and Postwatch. First, my noble friends Lord ...
Earl of Selborne | 687 c159-60GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lady O’Cathain. I, too, apologise for being unable to participate on Secon...
Baroness Oppenheim-Barnes | 687 c166GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that the Minister will not accept the amendment. It is quite ridiculous. I wish that all the ...
Baroness Wilcox | 687 c167-8GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 16, 17, 18 and 19 in this group. AmendmentNo. 16 is a probing amend...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 687 c170-1GC (Link to this contribution) I thank my noble friend for his reply. It did not go as far as I wanted but, when we have had time t...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c140GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may make a point. The sound system seems to have gone to hell. The noble Lord speaks softl...
Lord Williams of Elvel | 687 c140GC (Link to this contribution) I am happy to sit down, although, in my 20 years of experience in this House, I am used to moving am...
Viscount Allenby of Megiddo | 687 c140GC (Link to this contribution) The Clerk tells me that the microphones can be put into a higher position. It may be better if Membe...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c146GC (Link to this contribution) First, I apologise for not speaking at Second Reading, but my diary on that day was such that I coul...
Lord Truscott | 687 c148GC (Link to this contribution) That is not my understanding. The fact that they exist does not mean that they are formally devolved...
Lord Truscott | 687 c148GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendments Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 to Clause 1, Amendments Nos. 13A and 13B to Schedule ...
Lord Truscott | 687 c175GC (Link to this contribution) I said that Energywatch and Postwatch deal with the complaints in their sectors. They will continue ...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c174GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister is saying that, if Energywatch and Postwatch are taken on, there will be no increase in...
Lord Truscott | 687 c174GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 30 provides for regulations to limit the expenditure that the council can make for its...
Baroness Wilcox | 687 c173GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 30: Page 3, line 33, at end insert- ““( ) Expenditure incurred under subsectio...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 687 c183GC (Link to this contribution) This debate is important. After Second Reading, my noble friend sent a number of us a very helpful l...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c182GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 53: Page 7, line 1, after ““vulnerable”” insert ““or otherwise disadvantaged””...
Lord De Mauley | 687 c181-2GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response. Amendment No. 51 is much more specific than the accounting to...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c190GC (Link to this contribution) I thought that we had already dealt with that amendment.
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 687 c190GC (Link to this contribution) The amendments in my name are of a probing nature. I am not wholly satisfied with everything that th...
Lord Truscott | 687 c180GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to AmendmentsNos. 46 and 48 in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, and the...
Lord De Mauley | 687 c178GC (Link to this contribution) In view of the Minister’s response to my amendment on this matter, I can do no more than express my ...
Earl of Selborne | 687 c178GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, who has much more experience than me on the Floor of the Hous...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c179GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken in support of the amendment. I am especia...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 687 c191-2GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry. We have not reached Amendment No. 69; we have just dealt with Clause 12. According to th...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 687 c192GC (Link to this contribution) I think that this may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Tuesday 9 January 20...
Lord Williams of Elvel | 687 c150-1GC (Link to this contribution) Formally, I have to be grateful to my noble friend for his response, but I do not think that he has ...
Lord Truscott | 687 c151GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, I talk to my noble friend Lord Whitty frequently and we have discussed this issue, which is not...
Lord Borrie | 687 c152-3GC (Link to this contribution) Certainly, the case has been made for looking at a number of the amendments that the noble Baroness,...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c154GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has just said that Amendments Nos. 44, 45 and 49 would put an obligation on the counc...
Lord Truscott | 687 c153-4GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, asked initially about the functions of the new ...
Baroness Oppenheim-Barnes | 687 c154GC (Link to this contribution) If these ““mays”” or, by implication, ““may nots”” affect the size of the council and its work, how ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c154GC (Link to this contribution) If the intention is to maintain flexibility and the Government are intent on keeping the word ““may”...
Lord Truscott | 687 c154GC (Link to this contribution) As I said earlier, the council is given functions in respect of consumers and consumer matters. It i...
Baroness Oppenheim-Barnes | 687 c160GC (Link to this contribution) On a very small point, the description ““designated consumer”” often comes up in the Bill. We all ba...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c164GC (Link to this contribution) I thank all noble Lords who have spoken. I look forward to debating at greater length with the noble...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 687 c158-9GC (Link to this contribution) I was under the impression that we spent some time about two weeks ago discussing much of what is in...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c172GC (Link to this contribution) I support these amendments. Complaints are important indicators of where problems lie. The number of...
Lord De Mauley | 687 c171GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 21: Page 3, line 14, leave out ““before each financial year publish”” and inse...
Baroness Oppenheim-Barnes | 687 c171-2GC (Link to this contribution) I support Amendments Nos. 42 and 43. If the consumer council is to be a powerful advocate—which we a...
Lord Truscott | 687 c169-70GC (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to AmendmentNo. 15 in the name of my noble friend Lord O’Neill of Clackmannan, and t...
Lord Whitty | 687 c169GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Borrie has just made most of the points I intended to make. The point of this g...
Viscount Allenby of Megiddo | 687 c139GC (Link to this contribution) Should there be a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn as soon a...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 687 c140GC (Link to this contribution) The microphones work better if we sit down.
Lord Williams of Elvel | 687 c141-2GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to start again. Can everyone hear me now? I apologise for being inaudible in the first...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c140GC (Link to this contribution) Everything in this House is going wrong at the moment.
Lord Borrie | 687 c145-6GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may intervene and say a few words about these amendments. I am less fussed than my noble f...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c146-7GC (Link to this contribution) On a matter of clarification, we have talked about territorial committees, but they are in fact the ...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c176GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord De Mauley, said, we support Amendments Nos. 38 and 39. I, too, hope the Mini...
Lord De Mauley | 687 c175GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 38: Page 4, line 20, leave out ““have regard to”” and insert ““implement”” Th...
Baroness Wilcox | 687 c175GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply. I am grateful for the support of my noble friend Lady O’Cathain....
Lord Truscott | 687 c184GC (Link to this contribution) I acknowledge and empathise with the case given by the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, which is food fo...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c183-4GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, and the noble Lord, Lord O’Neill of Cla...
Lord Truscott | 687 c181GC (Link to this contribution) I will have to write to the noble Lord about ““novel””, because the drafting was done by parliamenta...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c181GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister omitted to define ““novel””, as requested by my noble friend Lord De Mauley. With all t...
Lord Truscott | 687 c181GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 51 would require the council to provide an account of how efficiently its resources we...
Lord De Mauley | 687 c180GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 51: Page 6, line 33, at end insert ““and provide an account of how its resourc...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c184-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lord, Lord O’Neill of Clackmannan, and the noble Baroness, Lady O’Cathain, for the...
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 687 c190GC (Link to this contribution) The Question is that Clause 13 stand part of the Bill. As many as are of that opinion—
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 687 c190GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise but I had been told that we were stopping at Amendment No. 69.
Lord Truscott | 687 c178-9GC (Link to this contribution) Policies on sustainability, which the noble Baroness has raised, are clearly very important. We shou...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 687 c190GC (Link to this contribution) Well, perhaps we should deal with those.
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 687 c192GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Tuesday 9 January 2007 at 3.30 pm.
Baroness Gould of Potternewton | 687 c190GC (Link to this contribution) We have not dealt with Amendment No. 69, which I understand will not be moved. I was given to unders...
Lord McKenzie of Luton | 687 c190GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can seek to do that. I think that we were intending to stop immediately prior to the group...
Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer | 687 c151GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 8: Page 42, line 25, leave out ““may”” and insert ““shall”” The noble Barones...
Baroness Thomas of Winchester | 687 c153GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendment No. 45, which relates to the research function, and draw the Committee’s ...
Lord Truscott | 687 c154GC (Link to this contribution) I hear what the noble Baroness is saying, but, I repeat, the point of the wording is to retain flexi...
Lord Truscott | 687 c154GC (Link to this contribution) I hear the point that the noble Baroness is making. I will reflect on it and write to her.
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 687 c155GC (Link to this contribution) What would happen if the council behaved in a manner which was unsatisfactory to the Government in t...
Lord Whitty | 687 c160-2GC (Link to this contribution) I declare my interest again. The amendments go to the heart of the Bill. I am not objecting to discu...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c159GC (Link to this contribution) I listened very intently the noble Lord’s remarks. Unfortunately I was unable to take part on Second...
Lord O'Neill of Clackmannan | 687 c164GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 15: Page 2, line 18, at end insert ““, or ““( ) a person resident in the Unite...
Lord Truscott | 687 c172GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to AmendmentsNos. 26, 42 and 43 tabled in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox...
Lord De Mauley | 687 c172-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, and my noble friend Lady ...
Lord Williams of Elvel | 687 c139GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1: Page 1, line 8, after ““a”” insert ““decision-making”” The noble Lord said...
Viscount Allenby of Megiddo | 687 c140GC (Link to this contribution) We did that the other day and they did work better. Shall we give it a try?
Baroness Wilcox | 687 c144-5GC (Link to this contribution) For the benefit of Hansard, I should say that there is a deliberate mistake in my Amendment No. 5. W...
Lord Williams of Elvel | 687 c148GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister says that consumer matters are not devolved, but we have a Welsh Consumer Council that ...
Lord Whitty | 687 c147-8GC (Link to this contribution) As on Second Reading, I declare a direct interest as chair of the current National Consumer Council....
Lord Truscott | 687 c176-7GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 38 places a direct requirement on the council to adhere rigidly to the work set out in...
Earl of Selborne | 687 c176GC (Link to this contribution) At last, the Minister will welcome an amendment because I am sure that he cannot possibly reject Ame...
Baroness O'Cathain | 687 c174GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lady Wilcox because she has her finger on the pulse of these issues and kn...
Subjects
Complaints Devolved matters Consumers Disadvantaged Finance Information Electricity Disconnections Gas and Electricity Consumer Council Protection Natural gas Mergers Postal services National Consumer Council Scotland Small businesses Sustainable development Wales Water companies Consumer Council for Postal Services Scottish Consumer Council Welsh Consumer Council Consumer Council for Northern Ireland
Legislation
Consumers, Estate Agents and Redress Bill (HL) 2006-07
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk