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Debate on Thursday, 4 November 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Liam Fox. The answering member was Jim Murphy.

Strategic Defence and Security Review

Debate on a motion that this House has considered the matter of the Strategic Defence and Security Review.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
517 c1060-146 
Session
2010-12
Department
Ministry of Defence
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Armed Forces: Aircraft
Thursday, 11 November 2010
Written questions
House of Lords
Armed Forces: Aircraft
Thursday, 11 November 2010
Written questions
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 517 c1114 (Link to this contribution) Order. A number of colleagues would still like to speak in this important debate, so in order to fac...
Denis MacShane | 517 c1102 (Link to this contribution) I want only to make the point that when the Falklands were invaded, the then US ambassador to the UN...
Show all contributions (154)
Edward Leigh | 517 c1102 (Link to this contribution) Oh dear! I am sorry. Perhaps I should not have been saying this, because I have forced the right hon...
Edward Leigh | 517 c1101-2 (Link to this contribution) Exactly. I know that parliamentary questions have been asked, but the House must tease out more info...
Lord Beamish | 517 c1101 (Link to this contribution) I accept the sensitivities regarding what we use Nimrod for, but does the hon. Gentleman agree that ...
Edward Leigh | 517 c1100-1 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with that. Again, we should look to history. Had Spain declared war on us in 1940,...
Denis MacShane | 517 c1100 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman aware of the great worries in Asia? Japan has 4,000 islands, many of which are...
Edward Leigh | 517 c1099-100 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) made an important point about the potential th...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1089-90 (Link to this contribution) I have to say that the answer is, ““Not necessarily.”” I think we would have taken more time and con...
Daniel Byles | 517 c1089 (Link to this contribution) I join others in thanking the right hon. Gentleman for the work he did as Secretary of State. We all...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1088-9 (Link to this contribution) Plans are in place, and the argument the hon. Gentleman puts is part of the cover for the 2015 decis...
Andrew Murrison | 517 c1088 (Link to this contribution) I think the right hon. Gentleman is getting distracted over this consultation issue. The central que...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1091 (Link to this contribution) The answer is a treaty that the right hon. Gentleman has just signed with France; technological capa...
Liam Fox | 517 c1091 (Link to this contribution) If, as the previous Government said in their own study, the current Trident replacement was the most...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1088 (Link to this contribution) Well, the decision has been taken, and it has been repeatedly reiterated. It is not going to be reve...
Madeleine Moon | 517 c1088 (Link to this contribution) At the beginning of today's debate the Defence Secretary was asked whether or not he was consulted o...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1087-8 (Link to this contribution) I have the greatest respect for the hon. Gentleman as well. I know that he follows these issues, and...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 517 c1096-7 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the opportunity to participate in today's debate. Following the precedent set by the hon. ...
Speaker | 517 c1096 (Link to this contribution) Order. Hon. Members will have noticed that no time limit has yet been set in this debate. I ask the ...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 517 c1097-8 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, and for the contribution that he made while serving...
Bob Stewart | 517 c1097 (Link to this contribution) I am worried by the right hon. Gentleman's comment that there might be 600 people in a new terrorist...
Jeffrey M Donaldson | 517 c1099 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, and he is absolutely right. I also support what has...
Rehman Chishti | 517 c1098 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. Does he agree that the UK is playing a key ro...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 517 c1092-3 (Link to this contribution) I accept what my hon. Friend says and I listened with great admiration to his earlier comments. Ther...
Lord Soames of Fletching | 517 c1092 (Link to this contribution) I know my right hon. Friend's views on this matter, but does he accept that the review was the first...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 517 c1093-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree. My hon. Friend talks about the number of intelligence agencies we have, but he might like t...
Bob Stewart | 517 c1093 (Link to this contribution) I think that is superb. The real problem that having smaller armed forces will bring is an absolute ...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1077-8 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is experienced in such matters, and he is right to raise that point. So far tod...
Dai Havard | 517 c1079 (Link to this contribution) As someone who lives in Wales, I regularly listen to the World Service, for reasons similar to those...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1079 (Link to this contribution) We seem to be entering an Adjournment debate on the importance of the BBC World Service.
Dai Havard | 517 c1079 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 517 c1079 (Link to this contribution) Does the shadow Secretary of State agree that the role that the World Service could play in a countr...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1079 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is correct, and we can compete in our admiration of the BBC's World Service...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1078 (Link to this contribution) There are no coalition party Back-Bench Members here to disagree, so I hope that the one belated arr...
Mike Gapes | 517 c1079 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Jim Murphy | 517 c1079 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to my hon. Friend, in the expectation that both interventions are on a similar subje...
Mike Gapes | 517 c1079 (Link to this contribution) Reference has been made to Pakistan. My right hon. Friend may not be aware that the BBC World Servic...
Andrew Murrison | 517 c1085 (Link to this contribution) May I give a practical example to illustrate my hon. Friend's point? I learned to my horror that the...
Lord Soames of Fletching | 517 c1085-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely vivid and important point. We can bet our bottom dollar that there...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1086-7 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames). I echo his tribut...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c1087 (Link to this contribution) I have great respect for the way in which the right hon. Gentleman conducted himself as Defence Secr...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1079-81 (Link to this contribution) Mr Murphy: My hon. Friend raises the crucial issue of funding support, and the World Service's reach...
Lord Soames of Fletching | 517 c1081-4 (Link to this contribution) In the week before Armistice day, I, along with every other Member of this House, salute the memory ...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c1085 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is making some extremely powerful points. Does he agree that the emphasis now seems t...
Lord Soames of Fletching | 517 c1085 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. The problem is that there are overlaps at every level of decision taking in...
Liam Fox | 517 c1067-8 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Lady will forgive me, I shall deal later with our thinking about what the United Kingdom...
Julian Smith | 517 c1068 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give us a little more colour about how shocked he was by Labour's legacy...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 517 c1067 (Link to this contribution) Our biggest ally always retains certain sovereign capabilities. What would be the Secretary of State...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1070 (Link to this contribution) I am seriously concerned about the decision that the Government have taken. They have not only scrap...
Liam Fox | 517 c1068 (Link to this contribution) In the interests of brevity, I will say that I knew it was going to be bad, and it was much worse.
Bob Russell | 517 c1068 (Link to this contribution) Will the rationalisation of the MOD estate include such things as the scandal in 1995 of the sale of...
Liam Fox | 517 c1071-3 (Link to this contribution) The Fleet Air Arm will require something of a transitioning with the new joint strike fighter when w...
Lord Soames of Fletching | 517 c1071 (Link to this contribution) What steps does my right hon. Friend intend to take to retain the critical mass of flying skills of ...
Liam Fox | 517 c1070-1 (Link to this contribution) First, ““cats and traps”” are not yesterday's technology. In fact, considerable expense is going int...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1073 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted to have the opportunity to respond in today's debate and I welcome the Secretary of S...
Liam Fox | 517 c1073 (Link to this contribution) You had better get used to it.
Jim Murphy | 517 c1073-4 (Link to this contribution) I hope it will not be for too long. Even in opposition, it is an honour to work to support our armed...
Liam Fox | 517 c1074 (Link to this contribution) In that case, can the right hon. Gentleman enlighten the House on what he and his party believe is B...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1074-5 (Link to this contribution) I will come to that later in my comments, but it is clear that Britain must make a pragmatic assessm...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1075 (Link to this contribution) I have spoken to my hon. Friend and others who were on that visit to Afghanistan, and they commented...
Madeleine Moon | 517 c1076 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that when the British press write about the Afghan campaign, one of ...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1076-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, who has paid close attention to these matters over a long time, is right. Those of u...
Liam Fox | 517 c1063-4 (Link to this contribution) We have so many ongoing discussions, not just inside the Government but, as the hon. Lady knows, wit...
Keith Vaz | 517 c1063 (Link to this contribution) Of course the Opposition support what the Government are doing in Afghanistan but, as we saw from th...
Liam Fox | 517 c1063 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that I accept the basic premise that it is an either/or situation. We have to deal wit...
Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston | 517 c1063 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the Secretary of State's assessment of Afghanistan and that there is a united House. Ho...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1061 (Link to this contribution) As the Defence Secretary for the last year of the Labour Government, I remind the right hon. Gentlem...
Liam Fox | 517 c1061 (Link to this contribution) Quite the reverse. In opposition, we spent considerable time discussing with the French what we woul...
Angus Robertson | 517 c1062 (Link to this contribution) As the right hon. Gentleman knows, decisions still have to be made on the future of the joint combat...
Liam Fox | 517 c1061-2 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has made his point very clearly. Obviously, I am unable to say what discuss...
Mike Gapes | 517 c1061 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State said that if he had had a clean sheet of paper, he would have made different ...
James Morris | 517 c1066 (Link to this contribution) There has been a lot of discussion about the renewal of Trident. Irrespective of the decisions about...
Liam Fox | 517 c1066-7 (Link to this contribution) I have absolutely no problem in agreeing with my hon. Friend about the importance of continuous at-s...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c1065 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has rightly won admiration for the very difficult settlement that he has had to...
Liam Fox | 517 c1065-6 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend is saying that defence should permanently have more money than it gets in any one ...
Liam Fox | 517 c1065 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a very important point. Indeed, when we recently met a number of our armed force...
Madeleine Moon | 517 c1065 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate what the right hon. Gentleman says about the debt of gratitude that we owe to our armed...
Liam Fox | 517 c1064-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very constructive point. I think that the time scales are realistic. Where p...
Richard Ottaway | 517 c1064 (Link to this contribution) As the Secretary of State is probably aware, the Foreign Affairs Committee visited Afghanistan last ...
Liam Fox | 517 c1064 (Link to this contribution) It is increasingly happening, not only here but on the ground. To be fair, I must say that it is inc...
Bob Russell | 517 c1064 (Link to this contribution) May I take the Secretary of State back to his comments on last week's statement by the Foreign Secre...
Speaker | 517 c1060 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Secretary of State should resume his seat. Given that he was manifestly late for the deba...
Liam Fox | 517 c1060 (Link to this contribution) Mr Speaker, I completely apologise for any inconvenience to you or the House as a result of my late ...
Liam Fox | 517 c1060 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House has considered the matter of the Strategic Defence and Security Revie...
Bob Russell | 517 c1060 (Link to this contribution) I intervene to assist the Secretary of State. He should pour a cup of water and catch his breath, so...
Liam Fox | 517 c1060-1 (Link to this contribution) There always had to be very good reasons for the coalition; my hon. Friend shows how collegiate we h...
Lord Beamish | 517 c1137-9 (Link to this contribution) We have had a good debate, including 15 contributions from Back Benchers. As one of them said earlie...
Penny Mordaunt | 517 c1136 (Link to this contribution) Over the summer, there have been headlines about Portsmouth and many other bases, which has caused g...
Oliver Colvile | 517 c1136 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend not also recognise that Plymouth has a significant role to play in the defence o...
Nick Harvey | 517 c1142-3 (Link to this contribution) This has been an excellent debate—interesting and wide-ranging—which is no surprise, as the House co...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1143 (Link to this contribution) May I ask the Minister whether the Prime Minister consulted either him or the Defence Secretary befo...
Ian Davidson | 517 c1139 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that had the second carrier been cancelled, the results would have been t...
Lord Beamish | 517 c1139-42 (Link to this contribution) That is an interesting intervention. I would have to refer to Mr King's letter, which states that if...
Nick Harvey | 517 c1144-5 (Link to this contribution) I cannot say that I had any conversations with the Prime Minister, but discussions between the Secre...
Nick Harvey | 517 c1145-6 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman, as time is running out and he left me rather short. On th...
Dai Havard | 517 c1112 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware of the press reports that Ministers are trying to sell on the Nimrod's capab...
Andrew Murrison | 517 c1113 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is making a compelling case, but will she say what elements of the defence programme s...
Madeleine Moon | 517 c1113-4 (Link to this contribution) That is not a matter for me. As a member of the Defence Committee, my objective is to look at what t...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c1114-6 (Link to this contribution) I commend the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) on alighting on a vital capability. There was one ...
Dai Havard | 517 c1110 (Link to this contribution) I know of the hon. Gentleman's particular interest in medical services and mental health. He will be...
Andrew Murrison | 517 c1106-10 (Link to this contribution) Let me first declare my interest, which is set out in the Register of Members' Financial Interests. ...
Madeleine Moon | 517 c1110-2 (Link to this contribution) As we approach the defence and security review and discuss how we are going to ensure our future def...
Andrew Murrison | 517 c1110 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I do. I commend the BMA for its efforts, as I do the Royal College of General Practitioners, wh...
Lord Beamish | 517 c1119 (Link to this contribution) I had responsibility for this matter as a Minister and we looked at rebasing from Germany. The estim...
Tom Greatrex | 517 c1119-20 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, which I think brings to bear an important aspect of the...
Neil Carmichael | 517 c1118 (Link to this contribution) I would like to point out one contrast between the review then and the review now. We now have the N...
Tom Greatrex | 517 c1118-9 (Link to this contribution) I was just going on to say that there are differences in the circumstances in 1997 and now. My right...
Laura Sandys | 517 c1120-1 (Link to this contribution) I should first like to associate myself with the tribute paid to our armed services and their famili...
Russell Brown | 517 c1116 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, given the time limit—perhaps I have bought him a little m...
Tom Greatrex | 517 c1117-8 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for the opportunity to speak in the debate. As a new Member, I have to...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c1117 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman asks an interesting question, which has been raised with me before. There a...
Bob Ainsworth | 517 c1117 (Link to this contribution) I think that the hon. Gentleman is on to something, and I know that a number of people are examining...
Bernard Jenkin | 517 c1117 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the question, but I will continue. [Interruption.] With respect, that was not the ...
Dai Havard | 517 c1125 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman may be satisfied with that, but I think that the position is still very unclear. ...
Alun Cairns | 517 c1125-6 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) had not left after a bit of a spat because there was a...
Ian Davidson | 517 c1126-8 (Link to this contribution) The debate has been excellent, but I do not believe that it has addressed the aircraft carriers issu...
Alison Seabeck | 517 c1128 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for the points that he has been making about the skills base. That is particu...
Alun Cairns | 517 c1123-5 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for calling me in this extremely important debate. I thank the Secret...
Keith Vaz | 517 c1121-3 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the excellent speech of the hon. Member for South Thanet (Laura Sandys). ...
Alun Cairns | 517 c1125 (Link to this contribution) The Secretary of State made clear in his written statement that there would be a statement about def...
Dai Havard | 517 c1125 (Link to this contribution) I was going to ask the hon. Gentleman earlier what he had been told by Ministers, in secret or other...
Laura Sandys | 517 c1121 (Link to this contribution) Most certainly. However, my point is also about how we look at those risks. We must start looking at...
Andrew Bridgen | 517 c1121 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the defence budget is unique in the way we must view it? It is a form...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 517 c1136 (Link to this contribution) Did my hon. Friend share my alarm when she saw the headlines about two weeks ago saying that Portsmo...
Elizabeth Truss | 517 c1133-4 (Link to this contribution) I have found this a very interesting debate, and I was particularly interested in the comments made ...
Penny Mordaunt | 517 c1134-6 (Link to this contribution) The long-awaited and long-overdue SDSR has been an extremely difficult task, and I place on record m...
John Glen | 517 c1131-2 (Link to this contribution) Quite possibly, but we can make cheap points or look at the fundamental problems that go back more t...
Lord Beamish | 517 c1131 (Link to this contribution) I am interested that the hon. Gentleman should be using 1997 as his starting point. Does he agree th...
John Glen | 517 c1130 (Link to this contribution) As a new member of the Defence Committee and, indeed, a relatively new Member of this House, I do no...
Bob Russell | 517 c1129-30 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted with whichever Government provides additional resources to 16 Air Assault Brigade. If...
Lord Beamish | 517 c1129 (Link to this contribution) It is a bit rich to suggest that the Government have increased the number of helicopters, given that...
Bob Russell | 517 c1129 (Link to this contribution) I thank you for imposing a time limit, Mr Deputy Speaker. That is the first cut of this Parliament t...
Ian Davidson | 517 c1128-9 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I do share that view. The Government, rightly in many ways, have said—the previous Government s...
Dai Havard | 517 c1106 (Link to this contribution) I may be old, but no—that is the short answer, and it might go back longer than me. The French have ...
Lord Beamish | 517 c1105-6 (Link to this contribution) One issue raised by the treaty is whether markets, including the French defence market, would be ope...
Lord Beamish | 517 c1105 (Link to this contribution) He makes the same speech every time.
Dai Havard | 517 c1103-5 (Link to this contribution) The word ““strategic”” is in the title of the document, but we have heard several examples of how it...
Edward Leigh | 517 c1103 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not keep going, because others want to speak, particularly my hon. Friend the Member for ...
Bob Russell | 517 c1103 (Link to this contribution) The Deputy Speaker said that many Members want to speak, and the hon. Gentleman has been rabbiting o...
Edward Leigh | 517 c1103 (Link to this contribution) That intervention was extremely discourteous, especially as Liberal Democrat Members have not attend...
Edward Leigh | 517 c1102-3 (Link to this contribution) Fine, but we must remember, I am afraid, that it was a French Exocet that sank HMS Sheffield. I do n...
Edward Leigh | 517 c1102 (Link to this contribution) But, indeed. Hon. Members and the public are right to be wary about such co-operation. The public do...
Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom | 517 c1091-2 (Link to this contribution) So far, this has been the best informed and best defence debate I have attended in this House. As th...
Jim Murphy | 517 c1079 (Link to this contribution) In a few moments. We are occasionally frustrated with some things that the BBC does, but in principl...
Mike Gapes | 517 c1075 (Link to this contribution) May I join others who will no doubt welcome my right hon. Friend to his new role? His was an excelle...
Keith Vaz | 517 c1077 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State on his appointment, and welcome hi...
Liam Fox | 517 c1062-3 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a useful point. We will be discussing a wide range of future issues, includ...
Penny Mordaunt | 517 c1136-7 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. One great outcome of the defence review is that all three of our Navy bases—Faslane, inc...
Liam Fox | 517 c1068-70 (Link to this contribution) There is no doubt that we need to deal with armed forces accommodation. We will want to do so as qui...
Madeleine Moon | 517 c1112-3 (Link to this contribution) It worries me that our defence capability is up for sale. We are selling off some of our defence ind...
Dai Havard | 517 c1105 (Link to this contribution) Yes, but he is the only one here to make it. There are issues to do with particular aspects of the ...
Subjects
Counter-terrorism Armed forces Defence Defence equipment Public expenditure Procurement Military bases Ministry of Defence Afghanistan Aircraft carriers ISAF BAE Systems Strategic Defence and Security Review
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