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Debate on bill on Monday, 21 May 2007, in the House of Commons, led by Alan Johnson. The answering member was Lord Willetts.

Further Education and Training Bill [Lords]

Further Education and Training Bill (HL). Second reading debate. Amendment negatived on division (137 to 296). Main question agreed to on question. Programme motion for proceedings in Committee, on Report, Third reading and other proceedings agreed to on question. Money resolution agreed to on question.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
460 c994-1079 
Session
2006-07
Department
Department for Education and Skills
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Programme motions
Money resolutions
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Deposited Paper DEP 06/2176
Tuesday, 5 December 2006
Deposited papers
House of Lords
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Lord Boswell of Aynho | 460 c1019-21 (Link to this contribution) That is certainly worth revisiting. There have always been difficulties with it and with the 16-hour...
John Hayes | 460 c1064-5 (Link to this contribution) Let me begin with an acknowledgement, a regret and a plea. First, I acknowledge how the Minister has...
Show all contributions (118)
Lord Willetts | 460 c995 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State tell us what he means by the new sub-regional structure that he has prop...
Alan Johnson | 460 c995 (Link to this contribution) I can give my hon. Friend an assurance that we are listening carefully to representations, and I sha...
Andrew Miller | 460 c995 (Link to this contribution) On that point, my right hon. Friend will be aware of an exchange that I had with the Deputy Prime Mi...
Alan Johnson | 460 c994-5 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. Our further education system has seen unpre...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 460 c996 (Link to this contribution) Having worked in a previous incarnation for a training and enterprise council, and having experience...
Alan Johnson | 460 c996 (Link to this contribution) The skills challenge is a United Kingdom issue. Indeed, the commission for employment and skills wil...
Stewart Hosie | 460 c996 (Link to this contribution) Clauses 11 and 12 allow the Learning and Skills Council for England both to make arrangements with S...
Alan Johnson | 460 c995-6 (Link to this contribution) First, I am delighted to see the hon. Gentleman in the Chamber. May I say how much we support his st...
Alan Johnson | 460 c996 (Link to this contribution) No, of course I do not believe that that is the case. However, I believe that we need a strategic ov...
Kelvin Hopkins | 460 c996-7 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my right hon. Friend’s response to that question, but does he agree that we must ensure...
Alan Johnson | 460 c1000-1 (Link to this contribution) I certainly am suggesting that. If 40 per cent. of jobs are to be filled by graduates and we have an...
Speaker | 460 c1002 (Link to this contribution) Order. I think that the hon. Lady has made a sufficiently long intervention, and her point as well.
Speaker | 460 c1003 (Link to this contribution) I say to the House that Mr. Speaker has selected the reasoned amendment standing in the name of the ...
Bill Rammell | 460 c1070 (Link to this contribution) We have had a good and constructive debate, and I am grateful to all hon. Members who contributed to...
Jeremy Wright | 460 c1024 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Lady agree that what she is describing very eloquently is education as a second chance...
Angela C Smith | 460 c1023-4 (Link to this contribution) I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman’s comments. Indeed, as someone who tore up all her school b...
John Hayes | 460 c1025 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady speaks with both eloquence and feeling. Does she acknowledge that many of the people s...
Angela C Smith | 460 c1024-5 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. It has to be said that, given the way in which our economy is now structured and moves, it i...
Angela C Smith | 460 c1025-8 (Link to this contribution) It is entirely true that what we in the trade call small, bite-sized chunks of learning can play a v...
Brian Binley | 460 c1028 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening intently to the hon. Lady, from whom we have heard sound common sense, as I wo...
Angela C Smith | 460 c1028-9 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, and in its own way the Education and Inspections Act 2006 tries to do the same in relation t...
John Hayes | 460 c1029 (Link to this contribution) I am intrigued by the hon. Lady’s support for the measure. She must be one of the very few people wh...
Angela C Smith | 460 c1029 (Link to this contribution) No. I thought that I had made myself clear. My point about the measure being a step in the right dir...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 460 c1029 (Link to this contribution) I am puzzled by the hon. Lady’s argument. She seems rightly to be lauding local education authoritie...
Angela C Smith | 460 c1029-30 (Link to this contribution) If Opposition Members wish to table amendments relating to colleges’ accountability to local authori...
Kelvin Hopkins | 460 c1037-42 (Link to this contribution) It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Northampton, South (Mr. Binley). I reassure hi...
Brian Binley | 460 c1032-7 (Link to this contribution) First, I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Ms Smith) whose speech was long...
Angela C Smith | 460 c1030-2 (Link to this contribution) Whether there is a sixth-form college or sixth forms attached to a range of schools is an open quest...
Kelvin Hopkins | 460 c1030 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend has a shortage of sixth forms in Sheffield, would it not be sensible for considera...
Rob Wilson | 460 c1043-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Luton, North (Kelvin Hopkins), who spoke with g...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 460 c1045 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept, however, that FE colleges might be much better placed than universit...
Stephen Williams | 460 c1043 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one of the obstacles to setting up sixth-form colleges or plannin...
Kelvin Hopkins | 460 c1043 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a useful point. I have expressed my lack of enthusiasm for academies before...
Rob Wilson | 460 c1045-6 (Link to this contribution) That is not the main thrust of my argument. As I continue my speech, my direction will become much c...
Lord Willetts | 460 c1008 (Link to this contribution) Starts in apprenticeships have reduced from 135,000 in 2004-05 to 123,000 in 2005-06. Advanced appre...
Brian Jenkins | 460 c1008 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman could help the House to understand the role of apprenticeships in this country be...
Tim Farron | 460 c1012 (Link to this contribution) The White Paper also says that a college led by its governing body is responsible for determining it...
Baroness Teather | 460 c1012-4 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. Legally, the college, not the Learning and Skills Council, is the emplo...
Lord Touhig | 460 c1014-6 (Link to this contribution) I welcome the Bill, which will equip learners with the high-quality skills that they need in order t...
John Hayes | 460 c1016 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is making a significant point. May I invite him to ask the Minister to inte...
Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 460 c1008-9 (Link to this contribution) For the first time in 16 years, I rise to speak in the House on an education Bill. It is interesting...
Lord Boswell of Aynho | 460 c1009-10 (Link to this contribution) I am following the right hon. Gentleman’s argument with care and a great deal of sympathy. Would he ...
Lord Murphy of Torfaen | 460 c1010-1 (Link to this contribution) Yes, in most cases, that would be the answer. I suspect that the Minister will tell us that, ultimat...
Baroness Teather | 460 c1011-2 (Link to this contribution) This is not a particularly exciting Bill. It has been described by Ministers elsewhere as largely a ...
Angela C Smith | 460 c1018 (Link to this contribution) In support of what the hon. Gentleman has just said, will he acknowledge that in relation to young p...
Lord Boswell of Aynho | 460 c1017-8 (Link to this contribution) It is a privilege to follow the right hon. Member for Islwyn (Mr. Touhig). I paid particular attenti...
Lord Touhig | 460 c1016-7 (Link to this contribution) The Ministers on the Treasury Bench are very skilled and able, and if they feel the need to interven...
Lord Boswell of Aynho | 460 c1023 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her generous personal remarks. Would she not also agree—I am sure...
Lord Boswell of Aynho | 460 c1021-2 (Link to this contribution) I agree with that idea, which is perhaps a subset of a problem about which no one would argue—that e...
Angela C Smith | 460 c1022-3 (Link to this contribution) I follow what I thought was an incredibly thoughtful and well-considered speech by the hon. Member f...
Lord Boswell of Aynho | 460 c1018-9 (Link to this contribution) I could not agree more. The whole business of transition planning for all children, particularly tho...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 460 c1019 (Link to this contribution) I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s long experience in this area. Does he share my great concern that ...
Lord Boswell of Aynho | 460 c1004-5 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend recall that when the Learning and Skills Council was introduced, we were p...
Lord Willetts | 460 c1007-8 (Link to this contribution) In saying that we accept that FE colleges should have degree-awarding powers, I meant that I recogni...
Lord Willetts | 460 c1005 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, who follows those matters very closely, has made an excellent point. When we hear an...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 460 c1005 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend concerned, like me, that in December 2003 our new, spin-free Chancellor said:"““Ev...
Lord Willetts | 460 c1005 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made a good point. I was worried when the Secretary of State had to resort to des...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 460 c1007 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that foundation degrees should be seen as free-standing qualification...
Lord Willetts | 460 c1006-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I want to hear whether the Secretary of State agrees with paragr...
Julian Lewis | 460 c1006 (Link to this contribution) Ms Di Roberts is the principal of Brockenhurst college, which is an outstanding college in my consti...
Lord Willetts | 460 c1005-6 (Link to this contribution) I recognise that colleges sometimes have those problems, but when we established the legislation in ...
Lord Redwood | 460 c1070 (Link to this contribution) How can the Minister say that there will be £40 million a year of cash savings when there will be no...
Bill Rammell | 460 c1070-1 (Link to this contribution) That figure relates to changes that have already taken place. The savings are already being delivere...
John Hayes | 460 c1066-70 (Link to this contribution) It is indeed bizarre. Even more bizarrely, we heard that the reorganisation, which is going to save ...
John Hayes | 460 c1072-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for those assurances. He has addressed a number of our concerns, which...
Bill Rammell | 460 c1073-5 (Link to this contribution) With respect to the hon. Gentleman, I do not think that the issue requires concessions, but I am sur...
John Hayes | 460 c1071 (Link to this contribution) The Bill embeds the LSC, at regional level, in the structure for managing and funding of skills. Lor...
Adam Afriyie | 460 c1062 (Link to this contribution) The Bill should be welcomed with one hand and rejected with the other. I sense the agile mind and ni...
Gordon Banks | 460 c1060-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to have the opportunity to contribute, and to follow the hon. Member for Peterborough ...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 460 c1057-60 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr. Wright). We have had a great educatio...
Iain Wright | 460 c1054-7 (Link to this contribution) I have a lot to be thankful for as a result of my experience in further education. My time in Hartle...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 460 c1050-1 (Link to this contribution) I said that I wanted the Minister to say whether that provision would contravene employment law. Al...
Jeremy Wright | 460 c1051-3 (Link to this contribution) I agree with those Members who have said that the Bill is a missed opportunity. The Leitch review an...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 460 c1049-50 (Link to this contribution) There is already a distinction. A number of FE colleges deliver higher-education qualifications, whi...
Lord Jackson of Peterborough | 460 c1050 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady seems to be on the same tack as her hon. Friend the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hillsbo...
Roberta Blackman-Woods | 460 c1046-9 (Link to this contribution) The Bill is important for moving on the agenda for the FE sector that was outlined in the Foster rep...
Rob Wilson | 460 c1049 (Link to this contribution) Some further education colleges will have powers to award foundation degrees, while many obviously w...
John Hayes | 460 c1066 (Link to this contribution) I will happily give way to my right hon. Friend, who is a great expert on these subjects.
Lord Redwood | 460 c1066 (Link to this contribution) Has my hon. Friend noticed that, in the account of the Bill issued by the Government, they proudly t...
Adam Afriyie | 460 c1064 (Link to this contribution) That is well spotted and I welcome the intervention because that is exactly what I am not considerin...
Speaker | 460 c1065 (Link to this contribution) Order. We have a special way of addressing colleagues in the House, but the way in which the hon. Ge...
John Hayes | 460 c1065-6 (Link to this contribution) It was intimate, but improper. I am sorry, what I meant is, ““Minister, I am about to blight your ex...
David Leslie Taylor | 460 c1062 (Link to this contribution) Is the expansion in the number of city academies valued more highly on the Conservative Benches than...
Adam Afriyie | 460 c1062-4 (Link to this contribution) I welcome that intervention, which highlights the unity on this side of the House with regard to wel...
David Leslie Taylor | 460 c1064 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is developing an interesting theory. Does he not believe that it contains some as...
Brian Jenkins | 460 c1002 (Link to this contribution) On restructuring, my right hon. Friend will have carried out some analysis on the last restructuring...
Alan Johnson | 460 c1002 (Link to this contribution) We published a regulatory impact assessment. We made various pieces of information available as the ...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 460 c1002 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way. I think we agree that raising aspiration is crucial. It...
Alan Johnson | 460 c1002-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point. There are not many places in this country that the hon...
Lord Willetts | 460 c1003-4 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, To leave out from ““That”” to the end of the Question, and to add instead thereof:"““...
Alan Johnson | 460 c1001 (Link to this contribution) I agree. That is a central feature of our proposals, to which I shall return.
Andrew Miller | 460 c1001 (Link to this contribution) I understand the powers described by my right hon. Friend as being necessary to serve as the ultimat...
Alan Johnson | 460 c1001-2 (Link to this contribution) Yes, since incorporation that is exactly the case. I hope my hon. Friend will look carefully at our ...
Alan Johnson | 460 c1001 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that we have used the powers—I will check—but having the provision available is a nec...
Gordon Banks | 460 c1001 (Link to this contribution) May I take my right hon. Friend back a moment to FE institutions and foundation degrees? Does he agr...
John Hayes | 460 c1001 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way a second time. He is extremely generous. So t...
Alan Johnson | 460 c999-1000 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I will come on to that precise aspect in a second. However, I wou...
Kelvin Hopkins | 460 c1000 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend will be aware that there is concern among the so-called modern universities—mem...
Alan Johnson | 460 c998-9 (Link to this contribution) That is an absolutely crucial point, which is why, in this part of the Bill, we are including the pr...
Helen Jones | 460 c999 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend will know that some of us have reservations about that because the point of fou...
Alan Johnson | 460 c998 (Link to this contribution) It is obviously about both, providing that we keep to the basic tenet of the Foster report and the W...
Gordon Banks | 460 c998 (Link to this contribution) Coming from an industry background, and as a former member of the board of management of Clackmannan...
Jeremy Wright | 460 c997 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has been extremely generous. He says that the Bill’s restructuring of the L...
Alan Johnson | 460 c997-8 (Link to this contribution) We are talking about a further reduction, but the £55.7 million is a one-off cost to secure an annua...
Sarah McCarthy-Fry | 460 c998 (Link to this contribution) I held an event at Highbury college in my constituency last year, which was attended by my hon. Frie...
Alan Johnson | 460 c998 (Link to this contribution) I do, and the interesting fact that Foster pointed out—in a report that I am proud to say I commissi...
John Hayes | 460 c997 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State square what seems to me to be a paradox? He is embedding the LSC’s plann...
Alan Johnson | 460 c997 (Link to this contribution) It is not a paradox. The hon. Gentleman has said several times that we should have delayed the Bill ...
Jeremy Wright | 460 c997 (Link to this contribution) Will the Secretary of State give way?
Alan Johnson | 460 c997 (Link to this contribution) I will give way once more, and then I want to make progress.
Alan Johnson | 460 c997 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes the crucial point about the Bill. The Foster report, the White Paper and these ...
Baroness Teather | 460 c998 (Link to this contribution) On the point about diversity, does the Secretary of State envisage this being about diversity of pro...
Bill Rammell | 460 c1071-2 (Link to this contribution) Lord Leitch made it clear—as the Government have made clear—that the role of the LSC can and should ...
John Hayes | 460 c1021 (Link to this contribution) As ever, my hon. Friend speaks with great authority on these matters. Will he comment on the idea th...
Kelvin Hopkins | 460 c1005 (Link to this contribution) I seem to remember that in the era of the hon. Gentleman’s Government, many colleges were found to b...
Subjects
Complaints Costs Bureaucracy Devolution Apprentices Class sizes Adult education Finance Graduates Governing bodies Further education Higher education Learning and Skills Council for England Educational institutions Qualifications National Assembly for Wales Managers Lifelong education Standards Wales Teachers Special educational needs Training Young people Small businesses Skilled workers Vocational education Termination of employment Sixth form education Skills in the UK Independent Review Basic skills Foundation degrees Academies
Legislation
Further Education and Training Bill (HL) 2006-07
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk