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Adjournment debate on Thursday, 25 February 2010, in the House of Commons, led by Louise Ellman. The answering member was Chris Mole.

Rail Fares and Franchises

Westminster Hall debate on a motion for the adjournment on rail fares and franchises.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
506 c141-78WH 
Session
2009-10
Department
Department for Transport
Chamber / Committee
Westminster Hall
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Chris Mole | 506 c166WH (Link to this contribution) I just want to assure the hon. Gentleman that, apparently, the publication of that figure in the fir...
Chris Mole | 506 c162WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman needs to be aware—and I am sure that the Chamber will want to be—that the c2c fra...
Show all contributions (88)
Norman Baker | 506 c162-3WH (Link to this contribution) I accept that. There would have been an option for the Government, I think, to end the franchise ear...
Louise Ellman | 506 c163WH (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that, because we now have information that the letting of the franchis...
Norman Baker | 506 c163-6WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a very good point. We need to look at legislation in particular; if it needs to ...
Norman Baker | 506 c166WH (Link to this contribution) I give way to the Committee Chairman.
Chris Mole | 506 c167-8WH (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs. Anderson. I welcome the opportunity to have ...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c168WH (Link to this contribution) I am interested in the Minister's last two remarks, and wonder whether he will explain them. I am in...
Chris Mole | 506 c168WH (Link to this contribution) On the first point, we would want to be sure that what we were getting from the business not only co...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c168WH (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister implying that he would expect a residual value at the end of a longer franchise that...
Louise Ellman | 506 c166WH (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is also to be regretted that there has been a reduction in the...
Norman Baker | 506 c166WH (Link to this contribution) That is exactly right. Some train companies have introduced super-saver fares to persuade the Govern...
Chris Mole | 506 c169WH (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend has a little patience, I will come to that matter in a few paragraphs. The Depart...
Norman Baker | 506 c169WH (Link to this contribution) It is helpful for the Minister to recognise that conundrum. I draw to his attention the fact that th...
Chris Mole | 506 c169WH (Link to this contribution) I think the hon. Gentleman has put it quite well.
Louise Ellman | 506 c169WH (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister agree that Passenger Focus does excellent work in monitoring how passengers feel a...
Chris Mole | 506 c169WH (Link to this contribution) We would always seek to avoid such protection arrangements that produce perverse incentives, such as...
Angela C Smith | 506 c170WH (Link to this contribution) The Minister ruled out the possibility of a comparator on the grounds that it is anti-competitive. I...
Chris Mole | 506 c170WH (Link to this contribution) I do not believe that we could make that happen at this time.
Norman Baker | 506 c169WH (Link to this contribution) I accept that a legislative bar exists, but does the Minister accept that it would not be complicate...
Chris Mole | 506 c169-70WH (Link to this contribution) Whether or not that is the case, I am not sure that it would be good for the industry to inject such...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c142WH (Link to this contribution) I have listened carefully to the hon. Lady. I wonder whether she would care to give the Committee's ...
Louise Ellman | 506 c141-2WH (Link to this contribution) The Select Committee report that we are discussing reflects long-standing concerns about the rail fr...
Chris Mole | 506 c161WH (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman tell us how he would bring investment into the rail infrastructure if Networ...
Norman Baker | 506 c161WH (Link to this contribution) The amount of money Network Rail has is enormous compared with that of a train operating company. Wh...
Chris Mole | 506 c161-2WH (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that there are fixed and variable components to the track access charges, and th...
Norman Baker | 506 c162WH (Link to this contribution) I believe that there is a relationship that needs to be considered. I draw the Minister's attention ...
Norman Baker | 506 c159-61WH (Link to this contribution) I am encouraged by the consensus between the hon. Members for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs. Ellman), fo...
Louise Ellman | 506 c159WH (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware that the Select Committee considered that matter? We have urged greater effi...
John Grogan | 506 c159WH (Link to this contribution) My case is getting stronger with every contribution. It would be such a pity if, at the next electio...
John Grogan | 506 c158WH (Link to this contribution) I would be interested to hear the Minister's list of countries that do not run trains on 26 December...
John Grogan | 506 c157-8WH (Link to this contribution) The Minister has been most helpful. We are approaching the end of the franchise, so if there is no e...
Chris Mole | 506 c159WH (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend have the good grace to acknowledge that at least 50 per cent. more services ran...
John Grogan | 506 c159WH (Link to this contribution) Yes; of course I will admit that, but it is 50 per cent. of a very small base figure. However, there...
Angela C Smith | 506 c158WH (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend not agree that a really good starting point would be more Sunday services?
John Grogan | 506 c158-9WH (Link to this contribution) Indeed it would. Ministers have two arguments against running trains over Christmas. The first is th...
Speaker | 506 c151WH (Link to this contribution) Order. I owe hon. Members an apology for having got the order of speakers slightly out of kilter. I ...
Angela C Smith | 506 c151-6WH (Link to this contribution) One encouraging aspect of the direction that we have taken on transport policy is the growing commit...
John Grogan | 506 c156-7WH (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Hillsborough (Ms Smith) fo...
Chris Mole | 506 c157WH (Link to this contribution) It may be helpful if I advise hon. Members that the general approach to franchise extensions is to m...
Norman Baker | 506 c147WH (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman share my perplexity that the Minister seems to be arguing against longer fra...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c147-8WH (Link to this contribution) The answer must be that given that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister cannot agree, we should not...
Chris Mole | 506 c148WH (Link to this contribution) I have listened with interest to the hon. Gentleman, and I thank him for giving way yet again. He ta...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c148-51WH (Link to this contribution) Is the Minister telling us that it needs a pyramid of civil servants in the Department, rising up to...
Chris Mole | 506 c147WH (Link to this contribution) Given that the principal factor in the failure of the National Express east coast franchise bid was ...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c147WH (Link to this contribution) Presumably by listening to the advice that KPMG gave to the Minister's Department on economic reset ...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c145-7WH (Link to this contribution) It is not a question of losing protection. Network safety is dealt with by the Office of Rail Regula...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c145WH (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to take part in this debate with you in the Chair today, Mrs. Anderson. I welcome ...
Chris Mole | 506 c145WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman and his colleagues on the Conservative Front Bench frequently suggest that the Go...
Norman Baker | 506 c144WH (Link to this contribution) I support the hon. Lady's Committee on this, and the Minister's intervention concerns me. Although i...
Louise Ellman | 506 c144-5WH (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and I accept the thrust of what he is saying. I hasten ...
Chris Mole | 506 c143WH (Link to this contribution) I assume that the Committee accepts that, although there may be one or two exceptions in the unregul...
Louise Ellman | 506 c143WH (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his intervention, but the logic of his comment means that 40 per cent. of p...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c142WH (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Lady for that answer on risk. Again, this goes to the heart of what franchising is....
Louise Ellman | 506 c142-3WH (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his additional comments. The Committee has always been concerned that...
Louise Ellman | 506 c142WH (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. The Committee has continually criticised the way in whi...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c170WH (Link to this contribution) The Minister will probably not thank me, but I will try to come to his aid. First, if such a company...
Chris Mole | 506 c170WH (Link to this contribution) Whether it did or did not, there would be the suspicion of a conflict of interests and there would b...
Louise Ellman | 506 c170-1WH (Link to this contribution) I have something of significance to add to the argument. Is my hon. Friend the Minister aware that I...
Chris Mole | 506 c170WH (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that clarification. I understand more clearly the point she is t...
Angela C Smith | 506 c170WH (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for giving way a second time; he is most generous. As I said earlier, there are...
Chris Mole | 506 c173WH (Link to this contribution) In her introductory remarks, my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside drew attention to th...
Angela C Smith | 506 c174WH (Link to this contribution) Passenger growth has to some extent been fuelled by the fact that the road networks are getting so c...
Chris Mole | 506 c174WH (Link to this contribution) I do not want to disagree with my hon. Friend, but the evidence we have indicates that ridership wil...
Chris Mole | 506 c174WH (Link to this contribution) That was not the point I was making, which was that fares had not increased as much as real terms in...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c174WH (Link to this contribution) The implication of what the Minister has just said, with regard to the document that referred back t...
Chris Mole | 506 c174WH (Link to this contribution) Which city? I give way to the hon. Member for Lewes.
Norman Baker | 506 c174WH (Link to this contribution) I hear the Minister's examples, but according to an earlier written answer, the cost of travelling b...
Chris Mole | 506 c175WH (Link to this contribution) No, I was drawing attention to the Government who were in power at the time, as fares were allowed t...
Chris Mole | 506 c171WH (Link to this contribution) I think that that is a different assertion from suggesting that the franchise should be awarded to s...
Norman Baker | 506 c171WH (Link to this contribution) I am sure the Minister does not want to give way, but I am grateful to him for doing so, nevertheles...
Chris Mole | 506 c171-2WH (Link to this contribution) I am astonished that the hon. Gentleman can reach that conclusion from those exchanges, because it i...
Stephen Hammond | 506 c172WH (Link to this contribution) It is clear from the response to the FOI request that the previous Secretary of State, the right hon...
Chris Mole | 506 c172-3WH (Link to this contribution) No, no, no. Clearly, the purpose of a management contract is not to renegotiate the franchise with t...
Norman Baker | 506 c173WH (Link to this contribution) If I may say so, the Minister was not listening very clearly to what I was saying because I suggeste...
Chris Mole | 506 c173WH (Link to this contribution) I listened to the hon. Gentleman's second point and thought that, given our earlier comments on perv...
Norman Baker | 506 c173WH (Link to this contribution) I will happily answer that question as well. They will still have an incentive to sell advance fares...
Angela C Smith | 506 c173WH (Link to this contribution) Is not the reality that the unregulated fares are not competitive with other modes of travel, as was...
Chris Mole | 506 c173WH (Link to this contribution) The incentive for them not to overprice any of the non-regulated fares is that they are in competiti...
Louise Ellman | 506 c177-8WH (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mrs. Anderson. With the leave of the House, I would like to respond briefly and say how p...
Speaker | 506 c177WH (Link to this contribution) Mrs. Ellman, as Chairman of the Select Committee, do you wish to respond? You have another opportuni...
Chris Mole | 506 c175WH (Link to this contribution) No. The website gives the true and real costs of motorcar travel and a better indication of what it ...
Chris Mole | 506 c175-6WH (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman's efforts extend to the journey from Hitchin to London, whi...
Norman Baker | 506 c175WH (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minster for drawing attention to the Lewes to Newhaven line, because I persuade...
Chris Mole | 506 c175WH (Link to this contribution) I draw my hon. Friend's attention to the website, the name of which I cannot remember, that enables ...
Angela C Smith | 506 c175WH (Link to this contribution) I will refer to my own experience a few weeks ago, when I left Sheffield to watch Sheffield Wednesda...
Subjects
Capital investment Contracts for services Fares Infrastructure Franchises East Coast main line Railways Passengers Regulation Tickets National Express
Contains statistics
Yes
Link
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