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Debate on bill on Friday, 2 December 2005, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness McIntosh of Pickering. The answering member was Fiona Mactaggart.

Criminal Law (Amendment) (Protection of Property) Bill

Criminal Law (Amendment) (Protection of Property) Bill. Second reading debate. Adjourned. Debate to be resumed 20 January

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
440 c499-574 
Session
2005-06
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Second reading
Procedure
Private members' bills proceedings
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Criminal Law (Amendment) (Protection of Property) Bill
Wednesday, 22 June 2005
Bills
House of Commons
Proceeding contributions
Andrew Dismore | 440 c531-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right: the Oklahoma law has nothing to do with the musical of the same name; it ha...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 440 c532 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend reflect on the appalling situation whereby homeowners in the US are being attack...
Show all contributions (373)
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c531 (Link to this contribution) The delay in my rising is the consequence of my just having come to terms with the implications of t...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c533 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point and I can add nothing to it. I was not planning to raise that issu...
Nick Palmer | 440 c533 (Link to this contribution) Does not that illustrate the point I made earlier? Although we have to accept that members of the pu...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c532 (Link to this contribution) In fact, I think that the film was ““Sudden Impact””, rather than ““Dirty Harry””. However, we have ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c532-3 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that my hon. Friend mentioned the common law defence. He will be aware that ““Archbold”” a...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c533 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. There would still be a grey area because we would still be arguing about wh...
Janet Anderson | 440 c533 (Link to this contribution) Conservative Members have made great play of the fact that the Bill would act as a deterrent, yet th...
Robert Flello | 440 c537 (Link to this contribution) I am disappointed that the hon. Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer) has just left his place. I had ho...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c537 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes the point clearly. It would be helpful to the House if we looked at what the AC...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c537 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may wish to point out, for the record, that it is clear from the Library research pap...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c537 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. That is exactly the case. The guidance from t...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c537 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. The statement was welcome, as it clarified the law. As I said, I was able t...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c536 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend gave figures for the decreasing number of burglaries in the past 20 years. Last year,...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c536 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is basically right, and I hope that we can analyse some cases in more detail later. M...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c535-6 (Link to this contribution) I hope to deal with that shortly, because it is important that we understand where the law stands. ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c534 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. A series of criticisms were made on Second Reading of the previo...
Robert Flello | 440 c534 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the existing legislation works and is sound, but is not widely unders...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c534-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. The Bill has effectively suggested to people that they have a weaker right ...
Janet Anderson | 440 c535 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that this is yet another example of Her Majesty’s official Opposition igno...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c533-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Rossendale and Darwen makes the point clearly and my hon. Friend the M...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c534 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure whether my hon. Friend has moved off Palmer, but my intervention is about the Palmer p...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c534 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. He is right that when we consider self-defence, we have a m...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c534 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that if those who support the Bill are serious about getting it on to the ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c535 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I made that point a little earlier, but perhaps she was not in t...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c541 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend recognises the cab rank rule. I am sure that he understands that Mr. S...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c541 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. My only difference with Mr. Scrivener was when he decided to tak...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c541 (Link to this contribution) One of the reasons why weight should be given to Mr. Scrivener’s comments is that he was the leading...
Nick Palmer | 440 c542 (Link to this contribution) Could not the person be another criminal, seeking to steal the same property, attempting to deter hi...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c541-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has made a good point. I suspect that Sir Ian Blair was caught unawares during a long...
Robert Flello | 440 c541 (Link to this contribution) Before my hon. Friend moves on from quoting notable individuals, will he tell me his reaction to the...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c540-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for clarifying his position. The position of the Association of Chi...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c540 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to hear the hon. Gentleman confirm a U-turn on the part of the Conservative party, alth...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c539 (Link to this contribution) There is another safeguard in the event that a case slips through the net and is prosecuted—the comm...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c539 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. That is the common sense required by the Crown v. Palmer and the dictum of ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c539-40 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Juries have common sense. Most of the few cases that did reach trial result...
Dan Norris | 440 c540 (Link to this contribution) It is not for me to defend the Leader of the Opposition, but several of his colleagues are here to p...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c540 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s comments. We must wait and see what attitude is taken by the fort...
Roger Gale | 440 c540 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. and learned Friend expressed a point of view in 1993, as the hon. Gentleman suggests, ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c540 (Link to this contribution) That has been remarked upon before. The hon. Member for North Thanet challenged me to say why I do ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c538-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an interesting point which is to do with what the law calls mens rea. To be ho...
Robert Flello | 440 c539 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend surprised to hear that in informal conversations with serving police officers at a...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c545-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend gave the example of a householder making an innocent mistake in the absence of mens r...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c545 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Some of the language used, the circumstances described and the arguments be...
Robert Flello | 440 c545 (Link to this contribution) We are looking at a vigilante Bill in all but name.
Andrew Dismore | 440 c545 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend answers his own question. There is no clarification; it makes things far worse. Befo...
Robert Flello | 440 c545 (Link to this contribution) If my understanding is correct, members of the general public who are not able to have such eminent ...
Chris Bryant | 440 c544 (Link to this contribution) : My hon. Friend seemed to suggest that Conservative Members think that they are creating something ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c544-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. The problem with the Bill is that it creates so many anomalies that people ...
Robert Flello | 440 c544 (Link to this contribution) If my understanding is correct, a thief running from a building who is desperate not to run into ano...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c544 (Link to this contribution) I think that my hon. Friend is wrong in that respect because—my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c544 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. We must look at section 9 of the Theft Act later when we co...
Nick Palmer | 440 c544 (Link to this contribution) To be fair, the Bill does attempt to clarify the meaning of"““building or part of a building””" by ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c544 (Link to this contribution) I think that my hon. Friend is a little harsh in talking of arrogance; I think that it is probably i...
Robert Flello | 440 c543 (Link to this contribution) Would it not be possible to have a bizarre, cartoon-like nonsense with someone running from building...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c543 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I hope that we shall receive a proper explanation of the def...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c543-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has given examples of crime statistics, showing that our constituents in urban areas ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c543 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend’s suggestion is not as far-fetched as it might seem. When I was a Westminster council...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c542 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We might see some further examples as the debate progresses. Wh...
Jim Dowd | 440 c542-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is much more skilled and learned in these matters than I, but as I read the Bill, it ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c543 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. When we come to consider the Bill in more detail, we will need to spend som...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c543 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the lack of definition is compounded by the point raised by my hon. Friend the Memb...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c523 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend confirm that he will be accurately reporting the views of the Commissioner of Po...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c523 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The Conservative party prays it in aid that the police back the ...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 440 c523 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend as surprised as I am that we have been asked today to take seriously the views of ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c522-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that and may refer later to some other points in that CPS memora...
Janet Anderson | 440 c522 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware of the press release issued by the Crown Prosecution Service in January, whi...
Janet Anderson | 440 c524 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my concern that the hon. Member for Vale of York (Miss McIntosh), the prom...
Roger Gale | 440 c524 (Link to this contribution) I beg the hon. Gentleman’s pardon.
Andrew Dismore | 440 c524 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Dr. Palmer) makes an important point. I am pleased that the ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c523-4 (Link to this contribution) I certainly will refer to the comments of the commissioner, Sir Ian Blair, because I think that he h...
Nick Palmer | 440 c524 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend not feel that, on reflection, he is being a bit harsh on the Opposition? He clai...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 440 c525 (Link to this contribution) One of my concerns about the Bill is that burglars, far from being deterred from breaking into peopl...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c524-5 (Link to this contribution) Earlier on, Opposition Members were talking about the incidence of burglary. We must examine the tru...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c525 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate how my hon. Friend is allowing those of us who are concerned about the victims of crime...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c525 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has amazing perception. He has raised the series of points that I intended to make.
Speaker | 440 c524 (Link to this contribution) Order. Perhaps we can now conduct the debate on the Bill rather than commenting on who is or is not ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c524 (Link to this contribution) I think that it is disgraceful that the hon. Lady is not present to listen to the debate.
Andrew Dismore | 440 c525-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I hope to address that issue at greater length when I come to an...
Roger Gale | 440 c526 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is going down a ludicrous route. Is he seriously suggesting that a burglar will s...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c526 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman thinks that I am causing offence. I disagree with him on the issu...
Janet Anderson | 440 c526 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend share my concern that the hon. Member for North Thanet (Mr. Gale) might be sugge...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c526 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point about the need for hardening or protecting one’s home agains...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c526 (Link to this contribution) I am concerned by the contributions of Opposition Members. Given the choice of having a panic button...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c526 (Link to this contribution) I think that that can be the only inference, given what the hon. Gentleman is saying.
Andrew Dismore | 440 c527 (Link to this contribution) I do not think that I can add to my hon. Friend’s point.
Lord Austin of Dudley | 440 c527 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend was asked whether he had been burgled. I can tell the House that I have been burgled ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c527 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that that is right. We will have to check Hansard, because I think that firearms have ...
Roger Gale | 440 c526-7 (Link to this contribution) We know that the hon. Gentleman is here to filibuster and likely to speak for a long time, so the id...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c527 (Link to this contribution) That is my intention and I am grateful to the hon. Member for North Thanet for clarifying his positi...
Roger Gale | 440 c527 (Link to this contribution) The record will show that what I actually said was that it was as ludicrous to describe this Bill as...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c527-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. That case is more exceptional in that the barmaid was able to get...
Robert Flello | 440 c527 (Link to this contribution) We were discussing the possibility of someone removing a firearm from a locked case and using it. Is...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c528-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes the point clearly. If someone is under the influence of drugs or alcohol, the m...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c529 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. It is more important that people get adequate crime prevention advice. Prot...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c529 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend comment on the practice of Wandsworth police, particularly in Tooting, who spend...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c529 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right that the Bill is riddled with anomalies. If it has the fortune—or...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 440 c529 (Link to this contribution) On the question of property, will my hon. Friend give me his assessment of the position? As I unders...
Nick Palmer | 440 c529 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for having had to leave the Chamber temporarily. I want to check a point with my hon. Fr...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c529-30 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right and he presages some of the remarks that I shall make later in my...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c531 (Link to this contribution) Elderly and confused people in the early stages of Alzheimer’s sometimes making such mistakes is a w...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c531 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an entirely correct and very good point. Currently, if a shoplifter tries to le...
Robert Flello | 440 c531 (Link to this contribution) So one could almost say that this Bill is a licence for the beating of grannies who have accidentall...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c530 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right about that and I intend to expand on the point in a few moments. I was maki...
Robert Flello | 440 c530 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for allowing so many interventions, which is welcome on the Governme...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c530 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is no doubt that a shopping mall or department store, such...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c531 (Link to this contribution) I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Mr. Khan).
Patrick Mercer | 440 c513-4 (Link to this contribution) What the hon. Gentleman is saying makes a great deal of sense. There is nothing in the Bills introdu...
Nick Palmer | 440 c514 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, which was, as always, measured and restrai...
Baroness Featherstone | 440 c513 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree not only that it would be difficult to decide if a response was grossl...
Nick Palmer | 440 c513 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes a good point. If we changed the law in this way, we should be saying that it was...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c512 (Link to this contribution) It is asserted that the figures are inaccurate because fewer crimes are reported. What about the Bri...
Nick Palmer | 440 c512-3 (Link to this contribution) I agree. In order to make progress, perhaps hon. Members will accept for the sake of argument that ...
Nick Palmer | 440 c512 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to my hon. Friend once more, and then I should like to make some progress.
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c512 (Link to this contribution) Is not the intervention by the hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr. Paterson) a classic example of ...
Nick Palmer | 440 c512 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that is right. It is not a question of reported crime. It is generally accepted that burglary i...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c522 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The issue between us is whether people should be able to defend ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c521-2 (Link to this contribution) Bearing in mind the seriousness with which most of us take this Bill, will my hon. Friend confirm th...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c521 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friend’s constituents are intelligent people who took the opportunity to read...
Nick Palmer | 440 c521 (Link to this contribution) In answer to the hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans), may I say that I conducted a survey of m...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c521 (Link to this contribution) Of course I shall. I have taken a particular interest in that, and although the Committee has yet to...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c521 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend comment on the Bill’s compatibility with the European convention on human rights...
Nigel Evans | 440 c521 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Gentleman will know that the Bill is a popular measure. How many of his constituents has ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c521 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is not alone in raising the popular sentiment behind the Bill, which I shall of c...
Roger Gale | 440 c520 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues are so determined to try to turn a cross-party issue into a...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c520-1 (Link to this contribution) I would simply say that on a Friday there is a free vote. Hon. Members are entitled to have their ow...
Roger Gale | 440 c520 (Link to this contribution) : Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Nick Palmer | 440 c520 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will have noticed that the hon. Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer) did not respond di...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c519-20 (Link to this contribution) Of course. Basically, the convention is that Fridays are a private Members’ day. The Whips should ke...
Speaker | 440 c520 (Link to this contribution) Order. Perhaps we can now get back to discussing the Bill that is before the House.
Andrew Dismore | 440 c520 (Link to this contribution) One can but speculate. My hon. Friend is right. We see on a Friday the same Bill coming back time af...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c519 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. I shall say a little more about the populist approach, or otherwise, of the...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c519 (Link to this contribution) As a new boy who has been here only six months, I am slightly confused because we do not have Whips ...
Speaker | 440 c519 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) will not stray too far in replying to th...
Patrick Mercer | 440 c518 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way again if the hon. Gentleman does not mind. The Bill makes a huge amount of sens...
Patrick Mercer | 440 c518 (Link to this contribution) I have no doubt that the police will make an arrest on those occasions and that they will feel much ...
Robert Flello | 440 c518 (Link to this contribution) : Does the hon. Gentleman believe that, if this Bill were enacted, police should arrest someone in s...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c519 (Link to this contribution) What are my hon. Friend’s views on Her Majesty’s official Opposition having what listeners of a radi...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c519 (Link to this contribution) I will mention something about that later. My hon. Friend the Member for Ealing, North was somewhat ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c518-9 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate the hon. Member for Vale of York (Miss McIntosh) on coming so high in the ballot and ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c517 (Link to this contribution) : The hon. Gentleman’s justification in relation to lack of certainty is that the Attorney-General w...
Patrick Mercer | 440 c517-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman tempts me, but I have already been cautioned about straying off the point of this...
Patrick Mercer | 440 c516 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I do not know whether she heard Sir Ian Blair’s words on the radio i...
Janet Anderson | 440 c516 (Link to this contribution) : Is the hon. Gentleman aware that Sir Ian subsequently retracted the comments that he made on the “...
Patrick Mercer | 440 c516-7 (Link to this contribution) I would not dream of suggesting anything about such an eminent police officer. He seemed to change h...
Nick Palmer | 440 c516 (Link to this contribution) When the hon. Gentleman says that it was Sir Ian Blair’s first day in post and he did not know the G...
Speaker | 440 c517 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that we will spend more time on the current Bill than on the previous one.
Nick Palmer | 440 c517 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the hon. Gentleman appreciates the importance of including the Attorney-General in th...
Fiona Mactaggart | 440 c517 (Link to this contribution) There are more now than under the Conservative Government.
Patrick Mercer | 440 c517 (Link to this contribution) I take your point, Madam Deputy Speaker, and if I have strayed from the letter of the Bill before us...
Patrick Mercer | 440 c514-6 (Link to this contribution) Some extremely interesting points have been raised so far. Before I start to make my points, as best...
Nick Palmer | 440 c511 (Link to this contribution) There are two tests of the Bill: first, whether it would have the effect that the hon. Gentleman hop...
Robert Flello | 440 c511 (Link to this contribution) On deterrence, does my hon. Friend agree that there is a possibility of the said burglar sitting at ...
Nick Palmer | 440 c510-1 (Link to this contribution) Yes, I do agree. That is one of the fundamental difficulties about the Bill. Frankly, it is an examp...
Owen Paterson | 440 c511 (Link to this contribution) It is most important that the hon. Gentleman address the question of deterrence. We will never have ...
Nick Palmer | 440 c510 (Link to this contribution) I shall follow your instruction, Madam Deputy Speaker, and draw a veil over the matter. Because I w...
Janet Anderson | 440 c510 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr. Paterson) has mentioned the alleged deterrent effect of th...
Speaker | 440 c510 (Link to this contribution) Order. I hope that hon. Members will concentrate their remarks on the Bill.
Nick Palmer | 440 c511-2 (Link to this contribution) Despite the citing of several examples of violence, we are primarily discussing not violent crime bu...
Nick Palmer | 440 c511 (Link to this contribution) That is right. There is a real risk of an arms race. That takes us back to the argument, which is ou...
Owen Paterson | 440 c511 (Link to this contribution) That is irrelevant, because all the statistics show that violent crime is increasing. We all know th...
Nick Palmer | 440 c509 (Link to this contribution) I did not know that, but that is my understanding of the current law. However, we must be open about...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c509 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the reasons why misunderstandings have occurred and further cl...
Nick Palmer | 440 c509 (Link to this contribution) Yes; that returns me to my dialogue with the hon. Member for North Thanet. The issue has been exploi...
Owen Paterson | 440 c509 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has underestimated the absolute exasperation in the countryside at the thin level...
Nick Palmer | 440 c508-9 (Link to this contribution) That is right. The Tony Martin case is useful because it illustrates one element of the grey area. W...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 440 c509 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware that Tony Martin’s defending barrister, Anthony Scrivener, described the cur...
Nick Palmer | 440 c509 (Link to this contribution) Before I respond to the hon. Gentleman, will he clarify whether he feels that Tony Martin should not...
Owen Paterson | 440 c509-10 (Link to this contribution) The use of force was grossly disproportionate. I am trying to get away from the physical action and ...
Nick Palmer | 440 c510 (Link to this contribution) I will not correct the hon. Gentleman’s grammar. [Hon. Members: ““Go on.””] We all support the new l...
Robert Flello | 440 c510 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the way to make sure that the good people in rural areas are protecte...
Nick Palmer | 440 c507 (Link to this contribution) It is a common phrase that was used. It was used by a Conservative colleague of the hon. Gentleman o...
Robert Flello | 440 c507 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is very kind. He mentioned the apprehension of, say, a shoplifter—someone who has gon...
Nick Palmer | 440 c507-8 (Link to this contribution) I apologise to my hon. Friend for frivolously hesitating. He makes a good point. If we are honest a...
Patrick Mercer | 440 c508 (Link to this contribution) When I presented a similar Bill, I made no bones about my view that Mr. Tony Martin would be guilty ...
Nick Palmer | 440 c508 (Link to this contribution) Fine. Whatever positions may or may not have been taken in the past, we, with the exception of the h...
Chris Bryant | 440 c508 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may have detected in the presentation by the hon. Member for Vale of York (Miss McInt...
Nick Palmer | 440 c508 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I am not aware of the details of the position of the hon. Member fo...
Robert Flello | 440 c508 (Link to this contribution) Was it not also the case that the court found that Tony Martin had not used reasonable force and was...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c505 (Link to this contribution) Brendan Fearon would have profited if his civil action was successful. I am delighted that my hon. F...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c505 (Link to this contribution) In conclusion, I am grateful for the wide support that the Bill has received.
Nick Palmer | 440 c505 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for the hon. Lady to strangle debate by gi...
Speaker | 440 c505 (Link to this contribution) It is entirely the decision of the Member making the speech as to whether they choose to give way or...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c505 (Link to this contribution) I am mindful of the wide interest in the Bill, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I want to allow as many col...
Nick Palmer | 440 c506 (Link to this contribution) Initially, I shall ask some of the questions that the hon. Member for Vale of York (Miss McIntosh) d...
Roger Gale | 440 c506-7 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has just made a disgraceful statement and he knows it. For him to suggest that th...
Nick Palmer | 440 c507 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid I cannot share the hon. Gentleman’s synthetic indignation. I note that not very many Opp...
Owen Paterson | 440 c507 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman reflect that the hon. Member for Ealing, North (Stephen Pound) had a poll o...
Rob Marris | 440 c505 (Link to this contribution) Brendan Fearon has not profited.
Lord Bellingham | 440 c504-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has alighted on a very important point indeed. When Brendan Fearon sued Tony Martin f...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c504 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has been listening closely, as the Criminal Justice Act 2003 sets out the test for an...
Owen Paterson | 440 c504 (Link to this contribution) Can my hon. Friend confirm that the phrase ““grossly disproportionate”” originated in the Government...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c503-4 (Link to this contribution) The whole House has benefited from my hon. Friend’s astute clarification which, I hope, will lead to...
Dominic Grieve | 440 c503 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for defining the nature of the offence. It was suggested earlier tha...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c502-3 (Link to this contribution) I hope that we can examine that matter in Committee. My hon. Friend is right that most burglaries th...
Tobias Ellwood | 440 c502 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that burglars are well aware of their rights before they commit a burglary...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c502 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. The Crown Prosecution Service guidelines do not go far enough...
Philip Hollobone | 440 c502 (Link to this contribution) Constituents in Kettering are fully behind my hon. Friend’s reasonable proposals because in Nottingh...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c501 (Link to this contribution) May I make some progress? I wish to cite two recent cases that demonstrate how the criminal justice...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c502 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point and echoes the sentiments expressed by the former Metropolitan Po...
Lord Herbert of South Downs | 440 c501-2 (Link to this contribution) I fully support my hon. Friend’s attempt to change the law on the use of reasonable force against pe...
Lord Bellingham | 440 c500 (Link to this contribution) I congratulate my hon. Friend on bringing forward this excellent Bill. She rightly mentions the case...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c501 (Link to this contribution) We would rely on the courts to decide what grossly disproportionate force would be.
Peter Bone | 440 c501 (Link to this contribution) Let me cite an example of something that happened to my family. My wife returned home one day to fin...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c500 (Link to this contribution) When we consider recent case law we can see that the reasonable force defence is not satisfactory. T...
Speaker | 440 c500 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Lady is not giving way at the moment.
Chris Bryant | 440 c500 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that the hon. Lady is bowing in admiration and praise to the hon. Member for Ribble Valley...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c500 (Link to this contribution) I bow in admiration of the heroic efforts of my hon. Friend. He has illustrated the problem more gra...
Nigel Evans | 440 c499-500 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may remember that about three years ago in my store in Swansea I confronted a shoplif...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c499 (Link to this contribution) I knew there must be a reason. However, I am delighted to have secured fifth place in the ballot for...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c500 (Link to this contribution) I am tempted to ask whether we are boxer shorts or briefs today. Two successive Metropolitan Police...
Chris Bryant | 440 c499 (Link to this contribution) That is because the hon. Lady does not buy a ticket.
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c499 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. It gives me great pleasure to introduce the...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c572 (Link to this contribution) I am troubled by the fact that my hon. Friend may not have time to deal with the European convention...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c572 (Link to this contribution) I have to agree with my hon. Friend.
Andrew Dismore | 440 c571 (Link to this contribution) One always has to look at the views of the opposition in newspapers such as the Daily Mail and TheMa...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c571-2 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. The problems posed by the Bill go beyond the position of the victim. What about the good Sa...
Jim Dowd | 440 c572 (Link to this contribution) In summary, this is the worst type of legislative change. As my hon. Friend has demonstrated, not on...
Chris Bryant | 440 c571 (Link to this contribution) I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. I urge him to agree yet again with Melanie Phillips, who...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c571 (Link to this contribution) Exactly. It is interesting that one can agree with that eminent journalist twice in an afternoon.
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c574 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend confirm my understanding of the convention, which is that countries cannot derog...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c573 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. That is also protected by other parts of the convention and the Human Rights Act. The J...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c574 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend might have read press reports about the wish of some members of Her Majesty’s officia...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c574 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As I was saying, unless there were a permitted derogation, a Gov...
Chris Bryant | 440 c572 (Link to this contribution) Important as those issues are, will my hon. Friend deal with one more point before he moves on to th...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c573 (Link to this contribution) A judge could merely issue a certificate of incompatibility. We would be back here straight away and...
Robert Flello | 440 c573 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the reasonable force defence in existing law gives the victims of cri...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c572-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Some of the examples that were given earlier make that clear. Victims gave ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c573 (Link to this contribution) Bearing in mind what my hon. Friend says and the fact that the mischief that Opposition Members are ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c550 (Link to this contribution) Is there not a problem with the words ““entered as a trespasser””? Earlier, an Opposition Member, wh...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c549-50 (Link to this contribution) The child might be injured but the householder would not be protected by the Bill because the ball w...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c548-9 (Link to this contribution) The intervention of the hon. Member for North Thanet (Mr. Gale) is useful, because it appears that t...
Roger Gale | 440 c548 (Link to this contribution) As a matter of interest, hon. Members were given counselling by security force personnel because of ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c548 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. In my property, I have employed security measures such as windo...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c548 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that they are illegal. That may be the case, but the issue that we are start...
Robert Flello | 440 c548 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has raised some further thoughts in my mind. What if someone had set a device designe...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c548 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. Properties are often protected by barbed wire, razor wire...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c547-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. The law in relation to setting a trap, as it stands, is c...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c547 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. I hope to explore the difference between civil and criminal law l...
Nick Palmer | 440 c547 (Link to this contribution) If no living creature is involved but the person has set an automatic defence, I think that my hon. ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c547 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an interesting series of questions by his intervention. In general terms, I th...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c546 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct, and I hope to explore that issue later. The problem is that there is no c...
Jim Dowd | 440 c546 (Link to this contribution) To pursue the issue raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), if there is no l...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c546-7 (Link to this contribution) Are there not additional problems with ““grossly disproportionate””? The concept is completely alien...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c546 (Link to this contribution) I am not sure I entirely agree. If section 3 of the 1967 Act were to be amended, the new subsection ...
Chris Bryant | 440 c546 (Link to this contribution) I think I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) rather than my hon. Friend t...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c552-3 (Link to this contribution) That is one of the problems. My hon. Friend switched from a shop owner to a householder halfway thro...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c550 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very interesting point, which relates to the Theft Act. If someone decides to...
Chris Bryant | 440 c550 (Link to this contribution) Let us consider the example given earlier of an estranged husband returning to the matrimonial home,...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c550-1 (Link to this contribution) To be fair, I am not sure that that is accurate. In that situation, the husband would probably be co...
Robert Flello | 440 c551 (Link to this contribution) Under this vigilante Bill, burglars could decide to stop committing burglaries and start mugging ins...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c551 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend offers yet another example of how this Bill creates many anomalies. Creating two diff...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c551 (Link to this contribution) At the beginning of his excellent speech, my hon. Friend said that the Bill’s title, which refers to...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c551-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right: the Bill is disproportionate and unfair. In an intervention, my hon. Frien...
Nick Palmer | 440 c552 (Link to this contribution) We all admire my hon. Friend’s ability to retain the thread of his remarks despite our interventions...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c553 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. If we are talking about the countryside, there is an interesting point that...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c553-4 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend talks about the householder being unclear about whether someone is a trespasser. One ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c553 (Link to this contribution) Even most bookshops would not have those books unless they were law bookshops, and there are not man...
Chris Bryant | 440 c553 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend might recall that the right hon. Member for West Dorset (Mr. Letwin) invited a gentle...
Jim Dowd | 440 c553 (Link to this contribution) Unless they owned a bookshop.
Andrew Dismore | 440 c554 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. If ordinary people were to read the Bill, they would thin...
Nick Palmer | 440 c555 (Link to this contribution) Most of us are not legal experts, unlike my hon. Friend. Even so, we have been able to identify many...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c554 (Link to this contribution) I am not entirely sure that I agree with my hon. Friend’s argument. The Opposition say that a burgla...
Chris Bryant | 440 c554 (Link to this contribution) Is not the other problem with the concept of trespass the fact that the tort of trespass originally ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c563 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend is suggesting that ““Archbold”” should be compulsive reading for all citizens, I s...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c563 (Link to this contribution) I envisage ACPO having to distribute tomes the size of ““Archbold””, rather than a leaflet, to expla...
Robert Flello | 440 c563 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend envisage a situation where the Association of Chief Police Officers will have to...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c564 (Link to this contribution) It is interesting to hear such an eminent journalist as Ms Phillips, writing for the newspapers she ...
Baroness Featherstone | 440 c564 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree, information being key, that it would be useful that, rather than eith...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c563-4 (Link to this contribution) The Bill is silent on that interesting point. In those circumstances, one can only assume that the b...
Chris Bryant | 440 c564 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree with the journalist who wrote:"““For unlike the current law, where the hou...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c564 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an important point. Although the leaflet is targeted at householders, the same ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c564 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady raises an interesting point and an issue canvassed previously when the Bill of the hon...
Robert Flello | 440 c564 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that rather than bringing in a vigilante Bill, a better way forward would ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c565 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend echoes some of the points I made earlier in giving some statistics about the incidenc...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c564-5 (Link to this contribution) I urge caution. My hon. Friend has explained his excellent practice of informing his constituents ab...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c565 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that it is grossly irresponsible of opportunist Opposition Members to refe...
Chris Bryant | 440 c565 (Link to this contribution) More importantly, such a case would not be dealt with under the Bill because it was not in a buildin...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c565-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. Going back to the discussion that I had earlier with my h...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c566 (Link to this contribution) Would my hon. Friend agree that even if the Bill were ever enacted, Mr. Carrera would still face the...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c566 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. If somebody is dead it is not possible to escape an investigation. I hope t...
Robert Flello | 440 c566 (Link to this contribution) If my hearing serves me well, my hon. Friend referred to a mugger. The offence would not be caught u...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c566 (Link to this contribution) Absolutely. Another case was that of Mr. Tony Evans, who in June 1993 shot an intruder. Presumably ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c567 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has reeled off a series of cases in which a jury has concluded that a defendant was n...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c566-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Sir Nicholas was a Conservative Member. The next case is that o...
Chris Bryant | 440 c566 (Link to this contribution) Is not one of the sadnesses of the procedure that we have had to go through the fact that some Conse...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c566 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct. Mr. Evans says it all. We heard earlier the hon. Member for Newark quotin...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c566 (Link to this contribution) Before my hon. Friend leaves the case of Tony Evans, may I refer him to what Mr. Evans said? He acce...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c568-9 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right, but I am just trying to do the best I can by applying a little common sense...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c568 (Link to this contribution) That is not the issue. The problem is that these people were not in buildings, and if they were not ...
Robert Flello | 440 c568 (Link to this contribution) As my hon. Friend says, in that case, it is possible that the ““grossly disproportionate”” rules mig...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c567-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right in saying that juries have a lot of common sense, but many of the cases that...
Jim Dowd | 440 c568 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend says that the Bill would not apply, but new subsection (1A) uses the words"““Where a ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c569-70 (Link to this contribution) I see the force of my hon. Friend’s argument, but in such circumstances the Attorney-General would b...
Chris Bryant | 440 c569 (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether that is right. Is it right to put very high-profile cases, covered by the national ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c570 (Link to this contribution) The Bill does not state that, but common sense tells us that such an action would be regarded as gro...
Robert Flello | 440 c570 (Link to this contribution) But would that be grossly disproportionate under the Bill; where does it state that?
Andrew Dismore | 440 c569 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes two interesting points. First, he stresses the need for clarity in the law, whi...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c569 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has provided five further examples of where the decision was taken not to prosecute. ...
Nick Palmer | 440 c570 (Link to this contribution) I realise that my hon. Friend is in danger of running low on time, but I want to mention one issue t...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c571 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very interesting point. My main concern is that, one way or the other, the Bi...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c571 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has explained the Bill’s inconsistency in respect of the approaches taken by victims ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c571 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. Indeed, that was to have been my next point. How can we distinguish between...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c557 (Link to this contribution) Indeed. It is even available in paperback.
Andrew Dismore | 440 c556-7 (Link to this contribution) Of course I intend to do that. It is a little way down my list of subjects, but I hope there will be...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c555 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. I do not practise as a lawyer any more, but the only people to gain from th...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c556 (Link to this contribution) Can my hon. Friend reassure me that he will talk about the Bill’s compatibility with the European co...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c556 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a caustic comment about the Opposition’s interest in their own Bill. I am pleas...
Robert Flello | 440 c556 (Link to this contribution) It is a little unfair to accuse the Opposition of supporting such a thing, given that there are unfo...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c555-6 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Tooting is right. What about a shoot-out in the staircase in the commo...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c558 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has raised two issues. First, what about troglodytes? Troglodytes are people who live...
Jim Dowd | 440 c558 (Link to this contribution) If I have understood my hon. Friend’s definition of a building, which concerns the building’s degree...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c557 (Link to this contribution) I think not, but the book provides helpful guidance as to what a building is in law. Professor Smit...
Jim Dowd | 440 c557 (Link to this contribution) Are there plans to turn it into a musical?
Andrew Dismore | 440 c557 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has raised a very interesting question. I think that a caravan would probably count a...
Robert Flello | 440 c557 (Link to this contribution) A number of my constituents enjoy the happy hobby of caravanning, and my hon. Friend has mentioned c...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c557-8 (Link to this contribution) On the second point, such householders would not be protected by the Bill, because the piece of land...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c557 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for having done the reading, which has saved me from having to do it...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c558 (Link to this contribution) That is very interesting, because the eminent Professor states that"““A substantial portable structu...
Chris Bryant | 440 c558 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may recall from the Sexual Offences Act 2003 that a tent is defined in law as a struc...
Chris Bryant | 440 c558-9 (Link to this contribution) I am not too worried about the troglodytes, but I am still worried about those who inhabit vehicles....
Robert Flello | 440 c560-1 (Link to this contribution) If a police officer giving pursuit to a drug dealer, for example, were in plain clothes and went acr...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c560 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an important point. I would hope that the police officer would exercise their ...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c560 (Link to this contribution) I am really troubled by that last example. My mind is drawn to our police officers, who are governed...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c559-60 (Link to this contribution) I have an example that I was going to use later in my speech, but it is relevant to my hon. Friend’s...
Robert Flello | 440 c559 (Link to this contribution) This draft vigilante Bill gives me grave concern, because of the confusion that it would cause. Coul...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c559 (Link to this contribution) I would hate to quibble with you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but the problem is that the Bill defines"““bui...
Speaker | 440 c559 (Link to this contribution) I am not criticising the hon. Gentleman for straying too far away from the main contents of the Bill...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c561 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his correction. Kenneth Noye was a well known member of the orga...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c562-3 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an interesting point. The Joint Committee on Human Rights report on the Bill i...
Jim Dowd | 440 c562 (Link to this contribution) We briefly touched on the matter a few minutes ago, but I find deeply troubling the use of the term ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c563 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes an interesting point. We know that the Bill is about defending property. I will...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c561 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is right. All that one can say to police officers in those circumstances is that they...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c561 (Link to this contribution) An additional point is the criticism that a police officer would face if he or she used excessive or...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c561-2 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend raises an interesting set of circumstances, but the force was probably not even reaso...
Nick Palmer | 440 c561 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that we would end up back where we started if we gave householders the adv...
Lord Austin of Dudley | 440 c530 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way again. On my understanding of the Bill, if one were o...
Baroness McIntosh of Pickering | 440 c500-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend. Perhaps we shall all get a surprise this morning and find that the ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c565 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If we examine some of the cases, we see a different picture emer...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c535 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend explained the sensible and mature way in which he behaved as an MP by ensuring that h...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c540 (Link to this contribution) Until now I have been with my hon. Friend, but my basic rule has always been that if the right hon. ...
Speaker | 440 c527 (Link to this contribution) Order. May I suggest that the ““Erskine May”” maxim of good temper and moderation in parliamentary l...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c530 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way so generously. He has already explained that the powe...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c572 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question. I promised him that I would cover those points, a...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c571 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that we must ensure that our hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bry...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c553 (Link to this contribution) Only if one is an insomniac. If one wants to know the law, one would have to read those books, but I...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c561 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend’s example is not at all fanciful. I think that it was the case of Kenneth Nye—
Chris Bryant | 440 c563 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether my hon. Friend is aware that there are in fact two places in the law where the...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c541 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that is so, but perhaps some cabs are more expensive than others—let us put it that way. ...
Patrick Mercer | 440 c517 (Link to this contribution) In response to the Minister’s comment from a sedentary position, no, there are not. The importance ...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c574 (Link to this contribution) Unless a specific derogation were allowed, we could not continue as a member of the Council of Europ...
Jim Dowd | 440 c547 (Link to this contribution) The proposed new subsection reads:"““Where a person uses force””." Will my hon. Friend enlighten us...
Andrew Dismore | 440 c546 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise that. I was construing the phrase ““grossly disproportio...
Chris Bryant | 440 c555 (Link to this contribution) To be fair to the Opposition, those gangs would not be able to go out and do that. They would only b...
Janet Anderson | 440 c536-7 (Link to this contribution) I am sure my hon. Friend is aware that the leaflet to which he referred, the joint statement from th...
Nick Palmer | 440 c537-8 (Link to this contribution) One point that has not been explored in detail yet is that the Bill states that even grossly disprop...
Lord Khan of Tooting | 440 c540 (Link to this contribution) That allays the minor concern that I had, and I can now confidently, positively and happily support ...
Robert Flello | 440 c528 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend accept that many burglars commit burglaries to fuel a drug habit? If a burglar i...
Subjects
Crime prevention Crimes against the person Crimes of violence Criminal law Buildings Burglary Criminal liability Firearms Protection Police Prosecutions Property Victims Trespass Self-defence
Legislation
Criminal Law (Amendment) (Protection of Property) Bill 2005-06
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk