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Opposition day on Tuesday, 17 April 2007, in the House of Commons, led by George Osborne. The answering member was Gordon Brown.

Occupational Pensions

Occupational pensions. Eighth opposition day debate. Motion negatived on division (233 to 298). Amendment agreed on division (297 to 230).

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
459 c165-272 
Session
2006-07
Department
Treasury
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 459 c189 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind Members that Mr. Speaker has imposed a 15-minute time limit on Back-Bench speeches.
Sion Simon | 459 c207-8 (Link to this contribution) Being a socialist, I am a compassionate sort, and I think that Labour Members have been unduly hard ...
Show all contributions (294)
Lord Redwood | 459 c208 (Link to this contribution) Does not the hon. Gentleman understand that it was advance corporation tax—not a subsidy, but a reba...
Sion Simon | 459 c208 (Link to this contribution) It was not advance corporation tax. We are talking about the dividend tax credit, as it was called, ...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 459 c208 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has been encouraged to perpetuate the myth that the great scheme involved cutting...
Sion Simon | 459 c208 (Link to this contribution) I think that I reviewed my hon. Friend’s book when he published it. It is an enjoyable read, but I b...
Graham Stuart | 459 c208 (Link to this contribution) I wish to ask a simple question. Does the hon. Gentleman believe that taking money out of the pensio...
Sion Simon | 459 c208-11 (Link to this contribution) No money was taken out of the pension funds. A previous Government’s cash subsidy, which was being g...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c211-2 (Link to this contribution) I begin by declaring an interest as a trustee of an occupational pension fund, and as a director of ...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c212 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has, like me, been listening to the debate. Unless I have missed something,...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c212 (Link to this contribution) I propose to stick with what I understand and, more importantly, with what my pensioner and employer...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c213 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman wishes to make a freedom of information request, he is no doubt as free as any...
Ed Balls | 459 c213-4 (Link to this contribution) With respect, I began by pointing out the right hon. Gentleman’s personal expertise in these matters...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c212-3 (Link to this contribution) We do not need a freedom of information request, because we had the details in glorious technicolour...
Ed Balls | 459 c213 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way again. I am not making an accusation here, ...
Jim Cunningham | 459 c216 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend may recall that certain companies took pension holidays. I know of one major company ...
Wayne David | 459 c217 (Link to this contribution) That is also a significant factor. During the 1980s and 1990s, despite rising liabilities, many firm...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c214-5 (Link to this contribution) They will reveal that the options were examined and did not take the form of a final recommendation ...
Wayne David | 459 c215-6 (Link to this contribution) It is important to remember the context of the debate. It is undeniably true, and certainly somethin...
Lord Redwood | 459 c217 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman not concede that a company could take a pension holiday only if the actuary ...
Ed Balls | 459 c212 (Link to this contribution) I am the Economic Secretary. I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. I know that h...
Geoffrey Robinson | 459 c201 (Link to this contribution) May I just finish this point, because it fits the whole and may be of some interest to the House? As...
Geoffrey Robinson | 459 c201-2 (Link to this contribution) The figures were printed very fully, and the hon. Gentleman will find the £5 billion figure in every...
Lord Lilley | 459 c203 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Coventry, North-West (Mr. Robinson), whose amia...
Geoffrey Robinson | 459 c201 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman in a moment. He was very patient in waiting for the Chancellor...
Wayne David | 459 c203 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Lilley | 459 c204 (Link to this contribution) May I make a little more progress? I will happily give way when the hon. Gentleman has something abo...
David Leslie Taylor | 459 c204 (Link to this contribution) On pension fund deficits, surely the right hon. Gentleman should refer, at least in part, to the fac...
Lord Lilley | 459 c204-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman to doing so for me. I entirely take the point. Markets go up; ma...
Lord Lilley | 459 c206 (Link to this contribution) I was referring back to the Chancellor’s Budget speech, when he said:"““The present system of tax cr...
Lord Lilley | 459 c206 (Link to this contribution) No, it is not, but never mind. If the hon. Gentleman reads the text in Hansard he will be able to se...
Ed Balls | 459 c206 (Link to this contribution) Let us be clear: the right hon. Gentleman is saying that dividends have been rising over the past 10...
Lord Lilley | 459 c205-6 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Any fair system taxes money either when it goes in or when...
Ed Balls | 459 c206 (Link to this contribution) I will resist the temptation to ask the right hon. Gentleman about pensions mis-selling. I am follow...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c205 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend has touched on an important point of principle. My right hon. and learned Frien...
Lord Lilley | 459 c206-7 (Link to this contribution) That series of interventions by the hon. Gentleman was probably worse than his contribution on the “...
Lord Lilley | 459 c206 (Link to this contribution) I will allow the hon. Gentleman one last attempt.
Ed Balls | 459 c206 (Link to this contribution) Given that the overall level of profits for corporations in the UK is at a record high, if the level...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c223 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady does not need to read the book. The hon. Member for Coventry, North-West was in the Ch...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c223 (Link to this contribution) I have not read the book that everyone is quoting as though it was the new Bible. I shall have to ge...
Brooks Newmark | 459 c224 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady has repeated what the Chancellor has said—that part of the motivation was to increase ...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c223-4 (Link to this contribution) I am sure that my hon. Friends on the Front Bench will respond to that when they reply to the debate...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c224 (Link to this contribution) I advise the hon. Gentleman to look at the record of economic growth and rising employment—
Judy Mallaber | 459 c222 (Link to this contribution) No crime has been committed. That is a ridiculous way of putting things. The statements and analysis...
Justine Greening | 459 c223 (Link to this contribution) The constituents who came to my surgery this week to raise their concerns about pensions and the Cha...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c223 (Link to this contribution) The problem is serious and we need to have a proper discussion about the consensus that we want to b...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c223 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Coventry, North-West (Mr. Robinson) said that.
Stephen Hesford | 459 c228 (Link to this contribution) Although I do not accept that there is any connection between what the Chancellor did and the so-cal...
Lord Redwood | 459 c226-7 (Link to this contribution) I am a company director and the trustee of a pension fund, and I have put that in the Register of Me...
Lord Redwood | 459 c228-9 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman does not understand stock markets. On an earnings multiple valua...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c224-5 (Link to this contribution) The economy is far healthier than it was. The Opposition seem to want to denigrate the economic succ...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c226 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to the end of my time, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind. We need to look at issues su...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c225-6 (Link to this contribution) No, as my time is running out. The suggestion is that the abolition of dividend tax relief was the ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 459 c218 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman might have been listening earlier when the right hon. Member for West Dunbartonsh...
Wayne David | 459 c217-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has identified a moot point. Opposition Members have gone very quiet, perhaps because...
David Gauke | 459 c218 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman praises the independent and expert advice of Dr. Ros Altmann. Will he therefore t...
Wayne David | 459 c218 (Link to this contribution) I am simply relying on expert objective opinion, rather than on political comment. Dr. Altmann’s arg...
Rob Marris | 459 c217 (Link to this contribution) It is not a question of hindsight. I was a personal injury lawyer at the time, and I used life expec...
Wayne David | 459 c217 (Link to this contribution) That is a valid point. While it is always possible to speak with the benefit of hindsight, it seems ...
Mark Tami | 459 c217 (Link to this contribution) Local authorities were mentioned earlier. Does my hon. Friend agree that it seems to have been Tory ...
Wayne David | 459 c217 (Link to this contribution) I do not claim to be an expert, but I suggest that some of the responsibility lies with the actuarie...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c217 (Link to this contribution) Is it not strange that it apparently took the actuaries so long to start warning of the implications...
Ian Taylor | 459 c220-2 (Link to this contribution) I welcome that point because it underlines the concerns that I have about how we get people to reali...
Justine Greening | 459 c220 (Link to this contribution) Does my hon. Friend agree that the biggest problem was that the covert change took the choice away f...
Ian Taylor | 459 c220 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman can afford to do so, but some of my constituents have been af...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c220 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to be able to tell the hon. Gentleman that I do live in a reasonably affluent and conte...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c219 (Link to this contribution) I ask the hon. Gentleman to look back to 1990s. Because of Maxwell and pension mis-selling under his...
Ian Taylor | 459 c219 (Link to this contribution) Obviously, by praising the Chancellor’s speech the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Mr. David) is applyin...
Mark Tami | 459 c218 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor wiped the floor with his opponents.
Wayne David | 459 c218-9 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend, and I hope that the newspapers accurately reflect that reality tomorrow...
Wayne David | 459 c218 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman knows the answer to that, so he has asked a rhetorical question. I quoted Dr. Ros...
Lord Redwood | 459 c230-1 (Link to this contribution) Of course conditions changed; the main change was the tax increases that did all the damage. Subsequ...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c230 (Link to this contribution) But that is precisely the Chancellor’s defence. If conditions had remained the same as they were whe...
Lord Redwood | 459 c230 (Link to this contribution) It is wrong. The funds all took sensible advice when they were solvent, which was why they were allo...
Lynda Waltho | 459 c230 (Link to this contribution) The Pensions Commission concluded that although employers should have been increasing contributions ...
Brooks Newmark | 459 c229 (Link to this contribution) The point made by the hon. Member for Amber Valley (Judy Mallaber), which was the Chancellor’s argum...
Lynda Waltho | 459 c233-4 (Link to this contribution) I do not share the hon. Lady’s concerns because I believe that her analysis is incorrect. We cannot ...
Justine Greening | 459 c234-7 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to be able to make a contribution to the debate today. I am also aware that many Member...
Lynda Waltho | 459 c232-3 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to contribute to tonight’s debate, not least to put some facts and figures on the recor...
Justine Greening | 459 c233 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady mentioned that, on coming to office, the Chancellor reduced the small companies rate, ...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c239 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says, ridiculously, a trillion, but if—
Speaker | 459 c239 (Link to this contribution) Order. No insults from a sedentary position, please. Interventions are fine, but not comments from a...
Mike Penning | 459 c239 (Link to this contribution) A trillion is a thousand billion.
Stephen Hesford | 459 c237-8 (Link to this contribution) Rather like one of my colleagues, I want to treat the debate as what it is. It has been set up by th...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c238-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is not listening; I said that the right hon. Member for Wokingham was making a di...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 459 c238 (Link to this contribution) I will, if the hon. Gentleman insists. I was simply making the point that just because a man loses a...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c239 (Link to this contribution) I am obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker. We have heard many figures, but not all of them can be right. If...
Mike Penning | 459 c239 (Link to this contribution) On the cynical point that the hon. Gentleman just made, I have 700 constituents who have had their p...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c239-40 (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that that synthetic anger just does not work, because if the hon. Gentleman had been in ...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 459 c256-60 (Link to this contribution) The question before the House is this: given what we know now about the circumstances of the 1997 ta...
Philip Dunne | 459 c253-5 (Link to this contribution) It is always a great pleasure, and an increasingly frequent one, to follow my hon. Friend the Member...
Graham Stuart | 459 c252-3 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman had spent more time in his place during the debate, he would not keep repeatin...
Lord Lilley | 459 c261 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman said that he entirely repudiated any suggestion that the Chancellor had bee...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 459 c260-1 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a minute; I will refer to the right hon. Gentleman’s contribution soon. We heard...
Lord Lilley | 459 c260 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Hutton of Furness | 459 c260 (Link to this contribution) First, I congratulate all my hon. Friends, who made excellent speeches in the debate. I will come to...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 459 c262 (Link to this contribution) No, I think that the right hon. Gentleman has conflated a number of different arguments. That was, h...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c261 (Link to this contribution) That is simply not right. Payments by companies of dividends come out of taxed income. Dividends rec...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 459 c261 (Link to this contribution) I will furnish the right hon. Gentleman with the details, but I think that he will find that figure ...
Iain Wright | 459 c246 (Link to this contribution) I am not going to go down that route. Certainly there was an assumption that the sun would always sh...
Lord Hammond of Runnymede | 459 c246 (Link to this contribution) If contribution holidays are such a problem, would the hon. Gentleman also argue that the reductions...
Iain Wright | 459 c246-7 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my right hon. Friend for that helpful intervention. I want to return to ...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 459 c246 (Link to this contribution) In relation to the point that the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond) has just mad...
Iain Wright | 459 c247-8 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. This has been mentioned earlier in the debate as well. I was read...
Hugh Bayley | 459 c247 (Link to this contribution) Is it not worth recalling that the adviser to Lord Lamont, the Chancellor who cut the dividend, was ...
Hugh Bayley | 459 c250 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman asks whether it is fair to have a means test, but why did his party have a means ...
Graham Stuart | 459 c249-50 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure to join in the debate, which has been an interesting one, and to follow the hon. Me...
Hugh Bayley | 459 c252 (Link to this contribution) What is the hon. Gentleman’s policy for reviving the fortunes of occupational pension schemes?
Graham Stuart | 459 c250-2 (Link to this contribution) The problem with the means test is that too many people are means-tested, and no party has managed e...
Lord McLoughlin | 459 c263 (Link to this contribution) rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put. Question, That the Question be...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 459 c263 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I cannot remember what the right hon. and learned Gentleman was saying at the beginn...
Speaker | 459 c262 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Chancellor spoke earlier. It is important that hon. Members allow the Secretary of State ...
Speaker | 459 c262 (Link to this contribution) Order. Hon. Members must let the Secretary of State speak.
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 459 c263 (Link to this contribution) I do not understand the point that the Secretary of State has just made about the situation in 1997,...
Lord Hutton of Furness | 459 c262-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful, Mr. Speaker. The problem—and it is a problem not just for the right hon. Member for C...
Iain Wright | 459 c245-6 (Link to this contribution) No, I do not. I am trying to make the case that, over the past quarter of a century, different chall...
Iain Wright | 459 c244-5 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure for me to follow the hon. Member for South-West Hertfordshire (Mr. Gauke), whom I g...
Graham Stuart | 459 c245 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree with the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) that we have gon...
Mike Penning | 459 c243 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to see the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on the Front Bench to hear this int...
David Gauke | 459 c243-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who has had constituents who have not lived to see compensation fro...
Hugh Bayley | 459 c242 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is arguing that the Government followed the wrong policy in reducing tax credits....
David Gauke | 459 c242-3 (Link to this contribution) Had the hon. Gentleman been present in the House during the earlier part of the debate, he would kno...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c240-1 (Link to this contribution) No. That issue is not part of the charge put before the Chancellor, so the hon. Gentleman is making ...
David Gauke | 459 c241-2 (Link to this contribution) As always, it is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Wirral, West (Stephen Hesford), whos...
Mike Penning | 459 c240 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 459 c190-1 (Link to this contribution) That is certainly one of the issues of concern. The basic issue is that not enough people are saving...
Jim Cunningham | 459 c190 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend recall that in 2000 some £250 billion was wiped off the stock market, whic...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 459 c191-3 (Link to this contribution) That is a very good question, but Conservative Governments reduced the relief five times, from 35 pe...
Ian Taylor | 459 c191 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes some good points about the collateral harm to pensions and the lack o...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 459 c189;459 c189-90 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to have been invited to contribute to the debate. Two words are particularly appropriat...
Lord Redwood | 459 c190 (Link to this contribution) Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that one of the big impacts on investment returns was the divid...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 459 c190 (Link to this contribution) The former Chancellor of the Exchequer, Norman Lamont, and John Moore and others in the Conservative...
Brian Jenkins | 459 c189 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Vincent Cable | 459 c189 (Link to this contribution) No, I am about to finish. Until there is a decent basic state pension without means-tested benefits ...
Vincent Cable | 459 c188-9 (Link to this contribution) I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was having a private chat when I began my speech, but I thi...
Pete Wishart | 459 c188 (Link to this contribution) I am surprised by the hon. Gentleman’s curious defence of the Chancellor and his policy. It almost s...
Vincent Cable | 459 c188 (Link to this contribution) Those are very good points, which add to my basic argument about the complexity of the decline of th...
Mark Todd | 459 c187;459 c187-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is producing a thoughtful analysis of the problem, but he has omitted one factor....
Vincent Cable | 459 c187 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to that. In many instances, private companies behaved appallingly to their employees. To...
Vincent Cable | 459 c187 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is right. There was a substantial time lag, and when the adjustment was made after the...
Vincent Cable | 459 c186-7 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Others take the view that the FRS criterion is very dem...
Lynne Jones | 459 c187 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that one problem was that the actuarial advice to pension funds did no...
Lord Redwood | 459 c186 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the £540 billion combined deficit figure from the actuaries is p...
Geoffrey Robinson | 459 c201 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely incapable of distinguishing between a fundamental point and a perso...
Geoffrey Robinson | 459 c198-9 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the former Chancellor, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. ...
Geoffrey Robinson | 459 c199 (Link to this contribution) He indicates that he did not vote against it, and I am prepared to accept that, but he certainly was...
Geoffrey Robinson | 459 c200 (Link to this contribution) Yes, and there is the No Turning Back group. They want £40 billion of tax cuts, but the shadow Chanc...
David Leslie Taylor | 459 c200 (Link to this contribution) Was my hon. Friend as disappointed as I was to hear the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe...
George Osborne | 459 c200-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s advice that I should be gentler with the Chancellor in future...
Speaker | 459 c198 (Link to this contribution) Order. The right hon. and learned Gentleman’s time is up.
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 459 c197-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is agreeing. Well, it is his own book: it is a good source. The Government had to...
Ian Taylor | 459 c195 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. and learned Friend accept that there were some rumours that that might happen? In...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 459 c195 (Link to this contribution) There were rumours and I shall refer in a few moments to a book on the subject. There was considerab...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 459 c193-5 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the right hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (John McFall) that we are making a great ...
Sion Simon | 459 c196 (Link to this contribution) Surely what this measure was doing was precisely removing the market distortion of the subsidy so th...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 459 c196-7 (Link to this contribution) That was the argument, but as I have just explained, I do not accept it and I do not think that subs...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 459 c195-6 (Link to this contribution) There are probably even more victims to be added to the list, but I believe that it is indeed intern...
Gordon Brown | 459 c181 (Link to this contribution) As I just said, the bigger fall in defined benefit schemes was between 1990 and 1995, when there was...
Michael Fallon | 459 c181 (Link to this contribution) If the Chancellor really believes that employers have been happy to make increased contributions to ...
Andrew Selous | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) I am not a member of the Cornerstone group.
Gordon Brown | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will tell us if he wants the dividend tax credit restored.
Speaker | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before the Chancellor answers, let me say this to Mr. Bryant: it is the last time I will hear...
Gordon Brown | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) I do not accept what the hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire (Andrew Selous) says. He is a membe...
Gordon Brown | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) Now, shall I take a member of the Cornerstone group or the No Turning Back group? It is difficult; I...
Andrew Selous | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) It has been estimated that council tax payers are paying an extra £175 a year in council tax because...
Speaker | 459 c181 (Link to this contribution) Order. Allow the Chancellor to speak.
Gordon Brown | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Mr. Fallon), who sits on the Treasury Committee—I am very grateful to...
Lord Garnier | 459 c180 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Chancellor. In my constituency and throughout Leicestershire, there are th...
Greg Clark | 459 c180 (Link to this contribution) Will the Chancellor confirm that his raid has been not only on pension funds, but on Britain’s chari...
Gordon Brown | 459 c180-1 (Link to this contribution) That is not true. [Interruption.] The shadow Chancellor thinks that the matter is so important that ...
Gordon Brown | 459 c181 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman had better be careful in joining this debate. He was the author of plans on...
Gordon Brown | 459 c180 (Link to this contribution) First, we have just announced—and we are the first Government ever to do so—a financial assistance s...
Gordon Brown | 459 c180 (Link to this contribution) I see that five hon. Members are standing.
Philip Dunne | 459 c180 (Link to this contribution) With reference to the £8 billion that the Chancellor has just mentioned, will he acknowledge to the ...
Gordon Brown | 459 c180 (Link to this contribution) We have just raised the figure from £2 billion to £8 billion. We have made it possible for every one...
Gordon Brown | 459 c181 (Link to this contribution) I am prepared to take contributions from Back Benchers who have not spoken.
Vincent Cable | 459 c185 (Link to this contribution) Actually, the Government have done what we asked—they did it in a roundabout way, but they got there...
Vincent Cable | 459 c184-5 (Link to this contribution) That last comment was really quite pathetic. I started by saying that we intended to vote in support...
Graham Stuart | 459 c184 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that, under the last Conservative Government, occupational pensions w...
Adrian Bailey | 459 c185;459 c185-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is at least trying to put a coherent argument. Does he accept that part of the re...
Vincent Cable | 459 c186 (Link to this contribution) That is a good point logically, but it is factually wrong. I noticed that the Chancellor made the sa...
Brooks Newmark | 459 c185 (Link to this contribution) That is none the less a lot of money. The Chancellor has failed to answer this question: given that ...
Vincent Cable | 459 c185 (Link to this contribution) Estimates have been made by people who are far more authoritative than us. Perhaps I can refer the h...
Adrian Bailey | 459 c186 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the figure that the hon. Gentleman quoted was for 1997. Was that not a little early t...
Vincent Cable | 459 c186 (Link to this contribution) I am touched that Labour Back Benchers have such faith in the stock exchange as a measure of busines...
Graham Stuart | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The Chancellor does not seem to worry about getting his facts righ...
Andrew Selous | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to tell the Chancellor that I shall be voting for our amendment tomorrow to help these 12...
Gordon Brown | 459 c182 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Member for South-West Bedfordshire will tell us if he wants the dividend tax credit...
Gordon Brown | 459 c182-3 (Link to this contribution) But the shadow Chancellor has said that he is not going to restore the dividend tax credit—he is not...
Julie Kirkbride | 459 c183 (Link to this contribution) If the Chancellor feels so confident of his argument, why did he try so hard to have his Treasury of...
Gordon Brown | 459 c183 (Link to this contribution) First, we introduced the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Secondly, I support it. Thirdly, I support...
Gordon Brown | 459 c183 (Link to this contribution) I shall take one more intervention.
John Baron | 459 c183 (Link to this contribution) Earlier, the Chancellor mentioned pension credit. Is he proud of the fact that it is so confusing an...
Gordon Brown | 459 c183-4 (Link to this contribution) Nearly 3 million pensioners who receive pension credit never received anything from a Conservative G...
Vincent Cable | 459 c184 (Link to this contribution) My colleagues and I intend to vote in favour of the motion. We opposed the abolition of dividend tax...
Gordon Brown | 459 c180 (Link to this contribution) The Conservatives were complaining that I was not taking enough interventions, but I will give way t...
Gordon Brown | 459 c179 (Link to this contribution) It is absolutely right that there has been a cut in those schemes in every major country in the worl...
Stephen Dorrell | 459 c179 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Chancellor, but I was actually the Financial Secretary. Can we be clear about o...
Gordon Brown | 459 c179 (Link to this contribution) I will take not only the ex-Chancellor but the person who was the Chief Secretary at the time.
Gordon Brown | 459 c179 (Link to this contribution) I have just explained to the House that we put £11.5 billion into pensions from 1997 until now in re...
Pete Wishart | 459 c179 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Is it not the case that the pension fund raid will cost the average Scottish...
Speaker | 459 c179 (Link to this contribution) Order. Let the hon. Gentleman speak.
Pete Wishart | 459 c179 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Chancellor for giving way, but is it not the case—[Interruption.]
Gordon Brown | 459 c178-9 (Link to this contribution) First of all, the ex-Chancellor supported, during the period in which his party was in government, t...
Lord Clarke of Nottingham | 459 c178 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor is carefully eliding and shuffling a few dates and events, so may I help him with his...
Gordon Brown | 459 c177 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman clearly has not read the papers in any depth. What the Treasury said was that act...
Gordon Brown | 459 c177 (Link to this contribution) I will deal with other interventions later, but perhaps the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness ...
Lord Redwood | 459 c177 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Chancellor for giving way. Does he agree that if we took a fifth of his income ...
Gordon Brown | 459 c177 (Link to this contribution) Is he not? [Interruption.] Oh, he is. Is he apologising? The Cornerstone group proposes £40 billion ...
Gordon Brown | 459 c178 (Link to this contribution) I used at least to have some respect for the right hon. Gentleman’s grasp of basic economics, but wh...
Graham Stuart | 459 c177 (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to the Chancellor for giving way. As ever, he prefers to talk about the poli...
Gordon Brown | 459 c176-7 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in one second. The strength of our argument is not just the points that I have made...
Gordon Brown | 459 c176 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a minute. If anyone expects the Conservative party to be more helpful to pension...
Gordon Brown | 459 c177 (Link to this contribution) I am just about to give way. The shadow Chancellor says that he wants long-term answers to the prob...
Adam Afriyie | 459 c177 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Gordon Brown | 459 c176 (Link to this contribution) I will give way in a minute, but I think that the shadow Chancellor should have an education before ...
Gordon Brown | 459 c176 (Link to this contribution) I will let people in when I have finished putting these factual points. Let me also tell the shadow...
Gordon Brown | 459 c175-6 (Link to this contribution) Will the shadow Chancellor not also acknowledge that we are the first Government to create an auto-e...
Gordon Brown | 459 c175 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, to leave out from ‘House’ to the end of the Question, and to add instead thereof:"‘no...
George Osborne | 459 c173-5 (Link to this contribution) I want to make some progress. That was predicted by David Simon, the chairman of BP, who wrote that...
George Osborne | 459 c173 (Link to this contribution) I have just read quotes from the CBI and the National Association of Pension Funds that show that th...
George Osborne | 459 c173 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way, as I wonder what the hon. Gentleman believes has been the impact on investment.
George Osborne | 459 c172-3 (Link to this contribution) It is no good the hon. Gentleman shaking his head—that is what he said. How did the CBI respond to h...
George Osborne | 459 c172 (Link to this contribution) I want to carry on talking about the comments made by the Economic Secretary on the radio. He said, ...
George Osborne | 459 c172 (Link to this contribution) I agree with my hon. Friend. When the Chancellor speaks, he would do well to tell us what the Treasu...
Graham Stuart | 459 c172 (Link to this contribution) Is my hon. Friend aware that the Institute of Actuaries said that £150 billion may yet be a conserva...
Adrian Bailey | 459 c172 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Tom Levitt | 459 c171 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman is referring to the Turner and Newall case, it has absolutely nothing to do wi...
George Osborne | 459 c171 (Link to this contribution) Of course the stock market crash and rising life expectancy have had an impact, but I am debating wh...
Russell Brown | 459 c171 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
George Osborne | 459 c171 (Link to this contribution) Let me make a little progress in my speech. I shall be happy to take lots of interventions because I...
George Osborne | 459 c172 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman nods to repeat that claim. Indeed, the Chancellor repeated the claim a week later...
Tom Levitt | 459 c170 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
George Osborne | 459 c170 (Link to this contribution) I absolutely understand their anger. I will come on to talk in some detail about what we can all do ...
Lord Bellingham | 459 c170 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor for giving way. Is he aware that I represent a...
George Osborne | 459 c170 (Link to this contribution) I will give way. I know that my hon. Friend takes a particular interest in this subject.
George Osborne | 459 c169-70 (Link to this contribution) The Chancellor never told the House of Commons that he was hitting people with a £5 billion tax raid...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c170 (Link to this contribution) Did Lord Lamont’s special adviser, the right hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron), agree with Lord L...
George Osborne | 459 c170 (Link to this contribution) It would not surprise me, because those people work hard and save hard, and they want to be independ...
George Osborne | 459 c170 (Link to this contribution) May I give some advice to the hon. Lady? Reading out the planted questions of the Labour Whips Offic...
Lord Robathan | 459 c170 (Link to this contribution) When my hon. Friend referred to the 125,000 people who have lost their occupational pensions, is he ...
Gordon Brown | 459 c169 (Link to this contribution) This, Mr. Speaker, is what I said in that Budget:"““The second is a structural reform that will also...
George Osborne | 459 c168-9 (Link to this contribution) No. I shall get on with my speech and take some interventions later. The Chancellor and the man who...
George Osborne | 459 c168 (Link to this contribution) I can tell the right hon. Gentleman that Norman Lamont—Lord Lamont—did not abolish dividend tax cred...
Lord McFall of Alcluith | 459 c168 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman remember that Norman Lamont, who was Chancellor in 1993, said that dividend ...
Nick Palmer | 459 c168 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
George Osborne | 459 c168 (Link to this contribution) The Government kept their stealth plans secret—from the public, from the rest of the Labour party, a...
George Osborne | 459 c168 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the Chairman of the Treasury Committee, and then I shall make some progress.
Speaker | 459 c168 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. Gentleman has indicated that he is not giving way. Also, I appeal to hon. Members no...
George Osborne | 459 c167 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has said on several occasions that when Labour came to office, we had one o...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 459 c167 (Link to this contribution) There are two points. One is whether the assets looked strong. The second is the crucial factor of t...
George Osborne | 459 c167 (Link to this contribution) We will wait for the right hon. Gentleman’s speech, when he can tell us about the second blow to pen...
Lord Field of Birkenhead | 459 c167 (Link to this contribution) Would the shadow Chancellor like to quote what I said about the two body blows to pension schemes? T...
George Osborne | 459 c167 (Link to this contribution) Let me tell the hon. Gentleman what the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr. Field) said recently. ...
David Leslie Taylor | 459 c167 (Link to this contribution) It is clear from what the hon. Gentleman has said so far that basic GCSE economics was not on the cu...
George Osborne | 459 c167 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the hon. Gentleman can tell us whether he knew of the plans before he campaigned in that ele...
Speaker | 459 c166 (Link to this contribution) Order. It is far too noisy in the Chamber. The hon. Gentleman is entitled to be heard—[Interruption....
George Osborne | 459 c166 (Link to this contribution) The plans for the pension tax raid were, strangely enough, dreamt up in a hotel room. They were drea...
Speaker | 459 c165 (Link to this contribution) We now come to the eighth allotted Opposition day, and the debate is on occupational pensions. I inf...
Jim Devine | 459 c165 (Link to this contribution) If the Conservative party were in power, would it reintroduce the dividend tax credit?
George Osborne | 459 c165 (Link to this contribution) It would do the hon. Gentleman’s career a great deal of good if he did not read out the prepared que...
George Osborne | 459 c165 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move,"That this House has no confidence in the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s handling of oc...
George Osborne | 459 c165 (Link to this contribution) On that note, I shall give way to the hon. Member for Livingston (Mr. Devine).
George Osborne | 459 c166 (Link to this contribution) Now that the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has withdrawn from the Labou...
George Osborne | 459 c165 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to the hon. Member for Stourbridge (Lynda Waltho), and perhaps she will tell us whe...
Lynda Waltho | 459 c165 (Link to this contribution) I would like the hon. Gentleman to tell me whether he agrees with his colleague, the hon. Member for...
Lord Redwood | 459 c227-8 (Link to this contribution) He did answer. My hon. Friend is quite wrong. He answered from a sedentary position and he said no, ...
Ian Taylor | 459 c219 (Link to this contribution) It is clear what has changed. In 1997 the pensions industry was, according to objective observation,...
Russell Brown | 459 c187 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Lynne Jones) has made an important point. Does ...
Geoffrey Robinson | 459 c200 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is correct, and I fear that the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe, who did...
Philip Dunne | 459 c195 (Link to this contribution) For purposes of clarification, will my right hon. and learned Friend confirm whether that is the sam...
Adrian Bailey | 459 c173 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman explain why, if the abolition of the tax credit was so devastating to pensio...
Judy Mallaber | 459 c168 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Redwood | 459 c229-30 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes another extremely good point. Other colleagues have also referred to it. On the...
Lord Lilley | 459 c181 (Link to this contribution) If it was damaging to charities and the Chancellor had to compensate them, why does he not admit tha...
Stephen Hesford | 459 c185 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is talking about political mistakes, but the political mistake was not made by my...
Wayne David | 459 c217 (Link to this contribution) That is an important point. My hon. Friend is clearly far better versed in such matters than I am. I...
George Osborne | 459 c171 (Link to this contribution) I will give way to the hon. Gentleman because I know that he has some of these cases in his constitu...
Subjects
Pensioners Workplace pensions Pensions Personal pensions Pension funds Treasury
Link
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