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Committee of the Whole House (HL) and Debate on bill on Wednesday, 7 December 2005, in the House of Lords.

Terrorism Bill

Terrorism Bill. Lords Committee stage second day. Clauses 1-18 agreed to, Clause 1 as amended. New clauses considered. Clause 19 under consideration. (Part 2 of 2)

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
676 c700-36 
Session
2005-06
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords chamber
Related items
Terrorism Bill
Wednesday, 7 December 2005
Parliamentary proceedings
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c736 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move that the House do now resume. Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c725 (Link to this contribution) They are both different definitions of ““public””. They work for the different clauses in different ...
Show all contributions (76)
Lord Kingsland | 676 c727-8 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 99:"Page 16, line 23, at end insert ““and" (c)   the action involves harm or t...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c728 (Link to this contribution) I support the amendments spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland. I have a few concerns about th...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c728 (Link to this contribution) Can I clarify something? Initially, the grouping I had indicated that we were going speak to Amendme...
Lord Kingsland | 676 c728-9 (Link to this contribution) On my sheet—it may be out of date—Amendment No. 99 is on its own; then we have Amendments Nos. 99A a...
Lord Elton | 676 c725-6 (Link to this contribution) I should be happy if he would. All he has done is confirm what I thought the meaning was without giv...
Lord Elton | 676 c726 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 96:"Page 16, line 17, after second ““in”” insert ““section 1 of””" The noble Lo...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c726 (Link to this contribution) I certainly applaud the noble Lord, Lord  Elton, for his wish that the drafting of legislation shoul...
Lord Elton | 676 c726-7 (Link to this contribution) I simply cannot follow the noble Lord in this at all. The whole of the statute book is littered with...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c732 (Link to this contribution) The provision refers to the behaviour in Scotland; conduct in Scotland refers to planning in Scotlan...
Lord Elton | 676 c732 (Link to this contribution) That was very lucid, but did not quite answer the question I asked. It was not, ““What is the relati...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c732-3 (Link to this contribution) I hope, therefore, that the noble Lord will also be satisfied that the changes that we make in respe...
Lord Elton | 676 c732 (Link to this contribution) I accept that by what the noble Baroness has already said.
Lord Goodhart | 676 c733 (Link to this contribution) Before the noble Baroness sits down and the noble Lord, Lord Kingsland, replies, perhaps I may ask a...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c733 (Link to this contribution) We looked at this issue carefully. The view taken was that it does apply to Clause 1 and that Articl...
Lord Elton | 676 c733 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may ask the noble Baroness therefore to write with the answer to a very simple question, t...
Lord Kingsland | 676 c733-4 (Link to this contribution) In the light of the interventions by the noble Lord, Lord Goodhart, and my noble friend Lord Elton, ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c735-6 (Link to this contribution) I assure the noble and learned Lord that his amendment is unnecessary. I absolutely agree with the w...
Lord Elton | 676 c729 (Link to this contribution) Has anybody moved a Motion yet?
Lord Goodhart | 676 c729 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to speak to Amendments Nos. 99A and 100, even if this is not strictly in accordance with ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c729 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that clarification. The amendments all refer to extra-territorial jurisdiction. I ...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c729-30 (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 99A would remove criminal liability for encouragement of terrorism under Clause 1 if i...
Lord Elton | 676 c730 (Link to this contribution) My Amendment No. 101 is to elicit the reason for treating offences under Sections 3(1)(a) and (b) of...
Lord Elton | 676 c729 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to speak to Amendments Nos. 101 and 102, provided that the answer is given separately and...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c732 (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord would be caught by the Bill if he planned an explosion in connection with terrorism. ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c730-2 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that. I will take the strictures given to me by the noble Lord, Lord Elton, and de...
Lord Elton | 676 c732 (Link to this contribution) The words ““in relation to Scotland”” puzzle me in this context. Do they mean that the planning is d...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c722 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 87:"Page 11, line 5, after ““to”” insert ““a term of””" The noble and learned L...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c724-5 (Link to this contribution) My instructions from our Chief Whip were that we would seek to make rapid progress today—and we have...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c723 (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for that assurance. In these circumstances, I beg leave to withdr...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c722-3 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his courtesy. I apologise for having interrupted him...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c723 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps the Minister could tell me whether, as presently framed, the provisions mean that on convict...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c724 (Link to this contribution) I support what the noble Lord, Lord Henley, has said. We are particularly concerned that if we go ah...
Lord Henley | 676 c724 (Link to this contribution) While the Minister is thinking about that, I add one further comment: it is Wednesday evening and we...
Lord Elton | 676 c723-4 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 89:"Page 11, line 21, leave out sub-paragraph (iv)." The noble Lord said: It is...
Lord Henley | 676 c724 (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, I wish briefly to intervene. First, this is the first time that I have ...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c722 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to those who have taken part in this debate and for the support of the noble Baroness,...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c722 (Link to this contribution) Will the noble and learned Lord briefly give way while I put a suggestion to him? Amendments Nos. 87...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 676 c717 (Link to this contribution) Being of a less kindly disposition than my noble friend, I wish to ask the noble Baroness whether sh...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c717 (Link to this contribution) I can assure the noble Baroness that Amendment No. 79 will catch all legitimate activity not caught ...
Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe | 676 c717-8 (Link to this contribution) I rise briefly to compliment the Minister on the speed with which she moved the amendment and also t...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c718 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 84:"Page 10, line 16, at end insert ““, or" (c)   having become aware or havin...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c718-9 (Link to this contribution) We have Amendment No. 85 in this group. We agree with what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Cameron ...
Baroness Williams of Crosby | 676 c719-20 (Link to this contribution) It is sometimes said that hard cases make bad law, and here I am concerned about what might happen t...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c720-1 (Link to this contribution) I apologise because I was sitting in great comfort thinking that my noble friend Lord Bassam was to ...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c700 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 62:"Page 6, line 17, leave out ““capable of being”” and insert ““likely to be””"...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c703-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Cameron of Lochbroom, for his amendment because it...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c702-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 70:"Page 6, line 42, leave out paragraph (b)." The noble and learned Lord said:...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c701-2 (Link to this contribution) : I may be content to withdraw the amendment, but I am not content with the answer given by the Mini...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c700-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for tabling Amendments Nos. 62 and 64. Like Amendments Nos. 59 and 6...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c704-5 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for giving that explanation, but I am not entirely content with it. Th...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c716 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may speed up matters by saying that, in view of government Amendment No. 79, we do not int...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c716 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 79:"Page 8, line 10, leave out ““or suspects””" The noble Baroness said: I shal...
Lord Lyell | 676 c716 (Link to this contribution) If Amendment No. 79 were accepted, I could not call Amendment No. 80, due to pre-emption.
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c715-6 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate the point that the noble and learned Lord is making; he has made it very effectively. I...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c715 (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister help me a little? Clause 6(2) provides for the person committing an offence if,"““a...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c717 (Link to this contribution) We had tabled a couple of amendments in this group. I have what is so far in this debate the unique ...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c716-7 (Link to this contribution) I appreciate wholeheartedly such total generosity. Our Chief Whip is almost overwhelmed with gratitu...
Lord Kingsland | 676 c716 (Link to this contribution) In view of the government amendment, we do not intend to speak to, or advance, Amendment No. 81.
Lord Kingsland | 676 c707 (Link to this contribution) The names of myself and my noble friend Lord Henley are appended to this amendment, which we also re...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c711-2 (Link to this contribution) The noble Baroness is right to think that she would get a dusty answer to her request not to bring b...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c707-11 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for tabling the amendment because it gives me the opportunity to bri...
Lord Goodhart | 676 c705-7 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 74:"After Clause 4, insert the following new clause—" ““DEFENCES (1)   Subsect...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c713-4 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Cameron of Lochbroom, for tabling the amendments a...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c712-3 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 75:"Page 8, line 4, after ““liable”” insert—" ““(a)””    The noble and learne...
Lord Bassam of Brighton | 676 c715 (Link to this contribution) Of course I was not suggesting that. It would depend on the seriousness of the nature of the offence...
Lord Thomas of Gresford | 676 c714-5 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may interrupt the Minister for a moment to ask him whether I understood him correctly when...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c736 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for the reply. I was aware of the provision in the Terrorism Act to wh...
Lord Elton | 676 c725 (Link to this contribution) I am not quite sure I follow why this should be. If someone has a radioactive source sufficient to b...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c716 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for that reply; time for reflection on both parts would be helpful in ...
Lord Elton | 676 c707 (Link to this contribution) I am very much in favour of the provision because it appears to me that its first two subsections an...
Lord Cameron of Lochbroom | 676 c734-5 (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 103:"Page 17, line 32, at end insert—" ““(c)   may be instituted in Scotland o...
Baroness Scotland of Asthal | 676 c718 (Link to this contribution) I thank everyone who has thanked me. I will treasure this moment because I believe that it will be r...
Subjects
Disclosure of information Crimes of violence Crimes against property ICT Jurisdiction Incitement Fines Libraries Internet Journalism Police Prosecutions Publications Sentencing Universities Terrorism Training Research Students Academic freedom Propaganda Encouragement of terrorism
Legislation
Terrorism Bill 2005-06
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk