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Debate on bill on Wednesday, 11 June 2008, in the House of Commons, led by Baroness Smith of Malvern. The answering member was David Davis.

Counter-Terrorism Bill

Counter-Terrorism Bill. Report stage second day. New Clause 20 agreed to. New Clauses 21-22, 24-30 and 32 agreed to on division (315 votes to 306). New Schedule 1 agreed to on division (315 votes to 294). Third reading. Agreed to on question (315 votes to 78). Bill passed.

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
477 c312-422 
Session
2007-08
Department
Home Office
Legislative stage
Third reading
Report stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Commons chamber
Related items
Deposited Paper DEP2008-1427
Tuesday, 3 June 2008
Deposited papers
House of Commons
Civil Contingencies Act 2004
Thursday, 18 November 2004
Public acts
Terrorism Act 2000
Thursday, 20 July 2000
Public acts
Show all related items (11)
Terrorism Act 2006
Thursday, 30 March 2006
Public acts
Proceeding contributions
Speaker | 477 c410 (Link to this contribution) Order. [Interruption.] Order. Mr. Gale, I warn you. You are a member of the Chairmen's Panel, and yo...
Speaker | 477 c321 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. and learned Gentleman should withdraw the remark.
Show all contributions (325)
Speaker | 477 c321 (Link to this contribution) Order. The hon. and learned Gentleman knows what he must do: he must withdraw that remark.
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c325-6 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman well understands the nature of the threat that we face. It aims to cause mass cas...
Martin Salter | 477 c326 (Link to this contribution) I thank my right hon. Friend for giving way, for the way in which she has conducted the debate throu...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c325 (Link to this contribution) Secondly, our amendments will strengthen the role of Parliament, bringing forward the vote on the Ho...
Bob Spink | 477 c325 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Home Secretary. She is being extremely generous. Perhaps it would help the Hous...
Speaker | 477 c325 (Link to this contribution) Order. The Home Secretary is here to put her case to the House. All the interruptions are causing ot...
David Davis | 477 c324 (Link to this contribution) In the Prime Minister's letter to Back Benchers, he said that the Government do not see judicial rev...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c325 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman knows that he has made the case to me for the widening of the scope of judi...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c324 (Link to this contribution) It will be possible to judicially review the Home Secretary's decision on the basis of reasonablenes...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c324 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is on the Front Bench. He has had plenty of time in the Chamber and in Committee ...
David Davis | 477 c324 (Link to this contribution) If the Home Secretary is so confident that that is a higher test, why have she and the Prime Ministe...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c323-4 (Link to this contribution) Of course, because the prosecutors and the police would have such a significant role in determining ...
Gordon Marsden | 477 c324 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. As she knows, this is an issue on which I have...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c324 (Link to this contribution) I am coming to the detail about the amendments, to show that we have been willing to go further to p...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c324 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way?
Bernard Jenkin | 477 c323 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary give way?
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c323 (Link to this contribution) No. Some have said that we should use the Civil Contingencies Act if we want to detain suspects beyo...
David Winnick | 477 c323 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Home Secretary for giving way; she has been very generous. Will she bear in min...
David Davis | 477 c330 (Link to this contribution) Innocent. That demonstrates—[Interruption.] We can reiterate the argument that we had last time. The...
Tony Lloyd | 477 c330 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Davis | 477 c330 (Link to this contribution) In a moment. I want to get to the end of this part of my argument, because it is very important to t...
Chris Bryant | 477 c331 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Lord Blunkett | 477 c330 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman's latter point is very important, because in some of the cases that he cite...
David Davis | 477 c330-1 (Link to this contribution) The point that the right hon. Gentleman conflates—he has heard me argue this—is that the inability t...
David Davis | 477 c328-9 (Link to this contribution) ““It is the job of Parliament to give them the tools””? It is the job of Parliament to defend the li...
Simon Hughes | 477 c326 (Link to this contribution) Clearly, the Government have rowed back from their original 90 days, but there has always been the q...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c326 (Link to this contribution) I am not completely clear what the hon. Gentleman is arguing, but I have spelled out the nature of t...
Karen Buck | 477 c327 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to argue that the Civil Contingencies Act and the invocatio...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c327 (Link to this contribution) That is why the definition that we have set down requires serious loss of life or serious impact on ...
Mark Durkan | 477 c327 (Link to this contribution) Earlier today the Prime Minister told us that, under the Bill, the Home Secretary would make a state...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c327 (Link to this contribution) It is the role of the Home Secretary to make the order, but it is an important parliamentary safegua...
Lord Harper | 477 c327 (Link to this contribution) I want to take the Home Secretary back to the exchange that we had during Home Office questions on M...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c328 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is just plain wrong again. I have been very clear in my response as to what the d...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c326 (Link to this contribution) As I spelled out when I was speaking about the nature of the threat, one of the arguments for what w...
Richard Ottaway | 477 c326 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary will have heard the Prime Minister saying no fewer than four times during Prime M...
Oliver Heald | 477 c319 (Link to this contribution) If the Home Secretary wants to use this power only in grave and exceptional terrorist cases, why is ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c318-9 (Link to this contribution) As many people have made clear during the course of the debate, there are fundamentally different sy...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c319 (Link to this contribution) Although I have great respect for what the hon. Gentleman says and thinks, let us make it quite clea...
John Baron | 477 c318 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of complexity, the Madrid bombings involved 29 suspects, investigations spanning seven ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c320 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that my hon. Friend has been willing to engage in such a constrictive way in ensuring that...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c319 (Link to this contribution) I agree with the principle argued by the hon. Gentleman. It is the principle behind habeas corpus, w...
William Cash | 477 c319 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary might have noticed that I have tabled a new clause relating to habeas corpus. Doe...
Mohammad Sarwar | 477 c320 (Link to this contribution) I want to thank the Home Secretary and my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister for the various meeti...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c319 (Link to this contribution) I am going to make a little progress now. As I said, it has been important for me to consult closely...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c317 (Link to this contribution) Our starting point has always been not the maximum number of days for which it should be possible to...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c317 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of 42 days, can the Home Secretary explain why she said a few weeks ago on Radio 4 that...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c317 (Link to this contribution) As I will demonstrate today, I believe that it is possible to find a way both to safeguard our indiv...
Philip Davies | 477 c317 (Link to this contribution) Nobody underestimates the threat that we face, but if the Government are so determined to clamp down...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c318 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in a moment. The risk has been identified, and it is for us as law-makers to take t...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c318 (Link to this contribution) It is the responsibility of this House and the Government to make a judgment and to bring forward la...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c318 (Link to this contribution) The Home Secretary is aware that the current system for charging places the responsibility for makin...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c318 (Link to this contribution) The important point that Lord Stevens made this morning is the point that I was about to make about ...
Keith Vaz | 477 c318 (Link to this contribution) On the issue of the threat, would my right hon. Friend like to comment on the statement made this mo...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c317 (Link to this contribution) Just a minute. I am responding to the intervention by the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (Mr...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c321 (Link to this contribution) I think that I made clear what the wholly different functions of Parliament and the judiciary were i...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c322 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend has raised the point with me before, and I hope that he is reassured by the commitmen...
Nick Palmer | 477 c321-2 (Link to this contribution) Many of us recognise that in the national interest, in extreme circumstances, a conspiracy may take ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c322 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a very important point, identifying the challenge facing those whom we task wit...
Tony Lloyd | 477 c322 (Link to this contribution) I very much understand the point that my right hon. Friend makes about the evidence that she can giv...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c322 (Link to this contribution) I am rather disappointed that my hon. and learned Friend has not read the new clause in sufficient d...
Robert Marshall-Andrews | 477 c322 (Link to this contribution) The first of the vaunted safeguards is that the power would be used when there was a grave and excep...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c323 (Link to this contribution) We would bring forward the order that requires a parliamentary debate at times—I believe that they w...
Sammy Wilson | 477 c322 (Link to this contribution) Speaking as someone who comes from a part of the United Kingdom that has suffered very badly from te...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c323 (Link to this contribution) I will make a little progress, and then I will give way again. We have listened to those who say th...
Angus Brendan MacNeil | 477 c320 (Link to this contribution) I am listening to what the Home Secretary is saying, but is this not essentially hollow macho legisl...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c320 (Link to this contribution) I shall make a bit of progress. This is a good example of the consultation and the work that we hav...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c321 (Link to this contribution) I listened very carefully to the Prime Minister's answer to my right hon. and learned Friend the Mem...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c321 (Link to this contribution) It is wholly appropriate for Parliament to be given the function of approving an order that commence...
Baroness Laing of Elderslie | 477 c321 (Link to this contribution) On the narrow point about the damage that the Home Secretary is likely to do to the constitutional s...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c320-1 (Link to this contribution) If people compare that intervention with the approach that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Stat...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c321 (Link to this contribution) I apologise, Mr. Speaker. I qualified it; the misleading must have been inadvertent.
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c313 (Link to this contribution) I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Speaker | 477 c313 (Link to this contribution) With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Amendment (a) to the proposed new clause,...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c317 (Link to this contribution) New clauses 20 to 22, 24 to 30 and 32, and new schedule 1, introduce amendments to strengthen consid...
William Cash | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Keith Vaz | 477 c347 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. I gave way to the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) because of his knowledge of th...
Mark Durkan | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) What if they are detained under this procedure?
Keith Vaz | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) I assure the hon. Gentleman, and my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Central, that under the emer...
Keith Vaz | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) If the constituents are detained under the current law, the current law must take its course.
Mark Durkan | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) What do Members tell their constituents?
Keith Vaz | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. To be very clear, before the hon. Member for Blaby (Mr. Robathan) j...
Jeremy Corbyn | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Keith Vaz | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not give way again. Of course those Members represent people other than members of the Mu...
Mark Durkan | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. I want to ask about him and other Members who signe...
Keith Vaz | 477 c345 (Link to this contribution) No, I will not. I have been speaking for 21 minutes, and it is important that other Members have an ...
Keith Vaz | 477 c345 (Link to this contribution) I say to my hon. Friend that they did not do so under duress. They happily signed the letter.
Speaker | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) Order. I remind all hon. Members that there should be decorum as well as debate in the House.
Keith Vaz | 477 c346 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has considerable knowledge of these issues because of what happens in Northern Ir...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c345 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Keith Vaz | 477 c345 (Link to this contribution) The shadow Home Secretary has always believed that the Civil Contingencies Act is sufficient for the...
Patrick Mercer | 477 c345 (Link to this contribution) Once again, I am grateful to the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee for his generosity. That, su...
Keith Vaz | 477 c344 (Link to this contribution) I will not take any more interventions.
Keith Vaz | 477 c344 (Link to this contribution) Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. My hon. Friend and I go back a long way. I represent a constituenc...
Martin Salter | 477 c344 (Link to this contribution) I thank the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee for giving way. He is perhaps having a tougher ti...
Keith Vaz | 477 c344 (Link to this contribution) All right, I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Reading, West (Martin Salter), who is a membe...
Keith Vaz | 477 c345 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way once more, to the hon. Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer).
Keith Vaz | 477 c344-5 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend will not draw me down the road of criticising members of the Committee, as I am due i...
Keith Vaz | 477 c345 (Link to this contribution) Indeed, that is exactly what the discussion was all about, but at the end of the day we concluded th...
Patrick Mercer | 477 c345 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, whose chairmanship I admire and enjoy. May I make i...
Speaker | 477 c344 (Link to this contribution) Order. The right hon. Gentleman is replying to an intervention. I call Mr. Vaz.
Keith Vaz | 477 c344 (Link to this contribution) No, I am not easily satisfied.
Keith Vaz | 477 c343 (Link to this contribution) I know that my hon. Friend is upset because I did not ask her to sign the letter, but I knew that sh...
Diane Abbott | 477 c343 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. On the letter that he and other of my hon. Fri...
Keith Vaz | 477 c344 (Link to this contribution) I say to my hon. Friend that I am satisfied that we will be able to do so. If I was not satisfied wi...
Keith Vaz | 477 c343 (Link to this contribution) And voted for the 90 days. But those people represent members of the ethnic minority communities, wh...
David Winnick | 477 c343 (Link to this contribution) And voted for the 90 days, of course.
Keith Vaz | 477 c343 (Link to this contribution) Yes, everyone will be affected, but the figures suggest that proportionately more of those who have ...
Keith Vaz | 477 c343 (Link to this contribution) I am satisfied about that, and I am quite clear that the parliamentary, judicial and administrative ...
Keith Vaz | 477 c342 (Link to this contribution) I am satisfied that the safeguards that the Government have put in place will deal with all the issu...
Keith Vaz | 477 c343 (Link to this contribution) I cannot believe that any e-mail that I could send out could be regarded as being dangerous. I and m...
David Winnick | 477 c343 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. I certainly will not say anything unkind. I wo...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c342 (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. He has looked carefully at the Government's proposal...
Keith Vaz | 477 c342 (Link to this contribution) I give way to the hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve), who has just taken silk.
Keith Vaz | 477 c342 (Link to this contribution) I have known my hon. Friend for many years. He was the first Member to support me when I was selecte...
Jeremy Corbyn | 477 c341-2 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend accept that my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick) was...
Keith Vaz | 477 c341 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way in a moment. The fact is that the Committee decided in a near unanimous report that...
Keith Vaz | 477 c341 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; of course there was controversy about this issue in the Comm...
David TC Davies | 477 c341 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman does an excellent job of chairing the Committee and of encouraging consensu...
Keith Vaz | 477 c341 (Link to this contribution) If a knighthood is on offer, it would sit better on the shoulders of the hon. Gentleman, representin...
Lord Robathan | 477 c340-1 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, my neighbour in Leicestershire, for giving way. I am list...
David Davis | 477 c337 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is exactly right. He is very experienced in this area and he knows the subj...
John Baron | 477 c337 (Link to this contribution) Having served in Northern Ireland, I suggest to my right hon. Friend that internment was not just a ...
David Davis | 477 c337 (Link to this contribution) That is exactly right, and that is why so many of the chief constables and ex-chief constables whom ...
David Davis | 477 c337-8 (Link to this contribution) Geoffrey Dear, Her Majesty's former inspectorate of constabulary, who said in terms that many of his...
Diane Abbott | 477 c338 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. Why are those Members who are opposed to t...
David Davis | 477 c338 (Link to this contribution) I am glad that I gave way to the hon. Lady. There is nobody in the House—not one person—who does no...
Keith Vaz | 477 c338-9 (Link to this contribution) I begin by thanking the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis) not just for givi...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 477 c339 (Link to this contribution) Did the right hon. Gentleman take evidence from Mr. Khurshid Ahmed, the chairman of the British Musl...
Keith Vaz | 477 c339-40 (Link to this contribution) Anyone could have given evidence to our Committee. We did not take evidence from that particular gen...
Rob Marris | 477 c335 (Link to this contribution) Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
David Davis | 477 c335 (Link to this contribution) No, not at this point. As a result of the procedures that I described before, the people dealt with...
David Davis | 477 c334 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a good point. There are two aspects that relate to a small number of cases invo...
Gordon Marsden | 477 c336 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has given a set of examples, but I am not sure that they are germane to his...
David Davis | 477 c336 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises an important point, and I will try to give him the most serious answer I c...
Rob Marris | 477 c335 (Link to this contribution) Can I gently suggest to the right hon. Gentleman that there is a big contradiction at the heart of h...
David Davis | 477 c335-6 (Link to this contribution) Earlier, I did not pull up the former Home Secretary, the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightsid...
Lord Beith | 477 c337 (Link to this contribution) I want to take the right hon. Gentleman back to the important point that he was making, and one of i...
Jim Sheridan | 477 c336-7 (Link to this contribution) At the beginning of the right hon. Gentleman's contribution, he rightly reminded the House of the hi...
David Davis | 477 c337 (Link to this contribution) I regret to tell the hon. Gentleman that I was not a Member of the 1972 Government. I never believed...
David Davis | 477 c332-3 (Link to this contribution) Hon. Members should not heckle the hon. Gentleman—he is well intentioned in this matter. I would say...
Julian Lewis | 477 c333 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
David Davis | 477 c333 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend will forgive me, I have not finished my answer.
David Davis | 477 c333-4 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman raises a perfectly reasonable point. I am not surprised that he does so, because ...
Lord Deben | 477 c334 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that the problem of extending the 28-day period is that it will have...
David Davis | 477 c334 (Link to this contribution) I understand my right hon. Friend's point, although I do not agree with it, in truth. However, there...
Julian Lewis | 477 c334 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend referred to people being released right up against the buffers, as it were. The...
David Davis | 477 c333 (Link to this contribution) I will not give way for the moment—forgive me. The Home Secretary reminds us time and again that sh...
Barry Gardiner | 477 c333 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman has built his case on the instance of the two cases where, he says, the evi...
David Davis | 477 c331 (Link to this contribution) If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I want to go through this point. It is quite important. I alw...
David Davis | 477 c332 (Link to this contribution) No. I have a small but important point to get through, and then I shall take some interventions. Wh...
Chris Bryant | 477 c332 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman is basing his whole argument on his assertion that there is no evidence tha...
David Davis | 477 c331 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes his point, but it would take me rather offline to follow him down that route. ...
Julian Lewis | 477 c331 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
David Davis | 477 c331 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier)
Julian Brazier | 477 c331 (Link to this contribution) Does my right hon. Friend agree that there is a certain irony in the right hon. Lady the Home Secret...
David Davis | 477 c331 (Link to this contribution) No, obviously not. Three of the five suspects—more than half—were held for the maximum period and t...
Chris Huhne | 477 c354-5 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady is correct to point that out. I have searched in vain for the amendment tabled by the ...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c355 (Link to this contribution) I rise to speak to the new clauses and amendments that stand in my name, which have been tabled to g...
William Cash | 477 c355 (Link to this contribution) Would the hon. Gentleman be good enough to explain to the House why he thinks that the opportunities...
Chris Huhne | 477 c353-4 (Link to this contribution) I have no doubt that the hon. Gentleman and the Home Secretary will continue that interesting joust ...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c354 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is right to analyse this area of the Government's proposals, because it is key to...
Chris Huhne | 477 c354 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. and learned Gentleman for his intervention. That is above my legal pay gra...
Lynne Jones | 477 c354 (Link to this contribution) I turn to the point about what would trigger these powers. Interestingly, my right hon. Friend the M...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c353 (Link to this contribution) I hope that the hon. Gentleman would want to advise the hon. Member for Billericay (Mr. Baron) to ta...
Chris Huhne | 477 c353 (Link to this contribution) I am delighted that the Home Secretary has been spurred to answer in the nick of time ahead of this ...
Chris Huhne | 477 c353 (Link to this contribution) I think the Home Secretary would now like to seek to clarify matters.
John Baron | 477 c353 (Link to this contribution) Before the hon. Gentleman moves on to the important matter of the safeguards, may I return to the is...
Chris Huhne | 477 c353 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his intervention, which has clarified the point.
Frank Cook | 477 c353 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman not consider the relationship between cause and effect when pondering an ear...
Chris Huhne | 477 c353 (Link to this contribution) I would not like to go as far as that, but the hon. Gentleman makes a point that I hope other Member...
Mark Hunter | 477 c352-3 (Link to this contribution) May I offer my hon. Friend an alternative quote from Sir Ian Blair? He has said on the record very c...
Chris Huhne | 477 c353 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. The evidence that Sir Ken Macdonald gave to the Public Bill Committee made...
David Winnick | 477 c352 (Link to this contribution) Should we not bear in mind that some of the Members who are so enthusiastic about the increase to 42...
Chris Huhne | 477 c352 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I am even more encouraged, however, by the number of people ...
Chris Huhne | 477 c352 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a point that has been made from the Government Front Bench on a number of o...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c362-3 (Link to this contribution) I need to make some progress, as many Members want to speak. Alternative No. 3 is post-charge quest...
Speaker | 477 c363 (Link to this contribution) Order. Before I call the next hon. Member to speak, may I say to the House that I appreciate that th...
Michael Mates | 477 c363-4 (Link to this contribution) When the House debated the 90-day detention limit last year, I abstained—not happily, because I do n...
Dari Taylor | 477 c364 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, and Friend he is. I have listened carefully. What he is reque...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c360-1 (Link to this contribution) The hon. and learned Gentleman is correct. The same argument will continue in the debate on the revi...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c361 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is entirely correct, and his point adds weight to the argument. The other safegu...
Robert Marshall-Andrews | 477 c362 (Link to this contribution) I am listening with great interest to my hon. Friend. Given the research he has done, can he explain...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c362 (Link to this contribution) I think that the holding charge system is dishonest; it would undermine the justice system and bring...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c358-9 (Link to this contribution) First, I will come on to habeas corpus, as I promised the hon. Gentleman earlier. Secondly, we are s...
William Cash | 477 c359 (Link to this contribution) That still does not resolve the problem of why the hon. Gentleman prefers to go down the route of th...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c357-8 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady makes her point, and I shall not demur from it. We are told that the reserve power is ...
William Cash | 477 c358 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a case exclusively based on the application of the European convention on h...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c359-60 (Link to this contribution) I support the hon. Gentleman's new clause and I see it as a matter not of either/or, but of both. W...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c360 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that although it is absolutely right that the order would also cover t...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c356-7 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree with my hon. Friend that we need to discuss this in a rational way, and I shall be ...
Anne Main | 477 c357 (Link to this contribution) I wanted to ask the Home Secretary this earlier. Have we seen one shred of evidence that the figure ...
Andrew Dismore | 477 c355-6 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that intervention, and I shall come on to that point later. ...
Kali Mountford | 477 c356 (Link to this contribution) When we considered this matter in Committee, we were given some evidence by Sir Ian Blair of a growi...
Dari Taylor | 477 c366-7 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend is absolutely right that we have a great deal of support and affection for each other...
David Howarth | 477 c367 (Link to this contribution) I am interested in that point. Did Lord Carlile inform the Committee that the US federal material wi...
Dari Taylor | 477 c367 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman does not think so. In fact, of course, the problem is serious and I found the evi...
Dari Taylor | 477 c366 (Link to this contribution) It is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Mr. Mates). I rarely quo...
David Winnick | 477 c366 (Link to this contribution) I genuinely have a great deal of time for my hon. Friend, but is not the argument that she puts forw...
Gordon Prentice | 477 c368 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend does not realise that there was an attempt not so very long ago to kidnap the Canadia...
Dari Taylor | 477 c367-8 (Link to this contribution) As the hon. Gentleman will guess, Lord Carlile did not make that statement to the Committee. However...
Dari Taylor | 477 c368 (Link to this contribution) I did know about the Canadian Prime Minister, but I forgot about him. Perhaps I should not have done...
Michael Mates | 477 c365 (Link to this contribution) That is a point that my hon. Friend is making. I shall make my own.
Michael Mates | 477 c365 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend, typically, has made that point four times, and I expect he will make it four times m...
William Cash | 477 c365 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend is making a powerful point. Precisely because the statute defines what is lawfu...
Michael Mates | 477 c365 (Link to this contribution) That is the safeguard to which I was referring, but it is the Executive who will take the original d...
Michael Mates | 477 c365-6 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. There are further problems with the Bill. I accept that the Prime Ministe...
John Baron | 477 c365 (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I can help my right hon. Friend a little. It is low hurdle that the judge has to consider. H...
Adrian Bailey | 477 c365 (Link to this contribution) I have been listening to the right hon. Gentleman's argument, which has some force to it. However, h...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c370-2 (Link to this contribution) I rise to support Government amendments Nos. 4 and 5, which seek to delete the 42-day requirement fr...
Dari Taylor | 477 c370 (Link to this contribution) I think that it is time for me to end. I have attempted to do so four times. I end by quoting from ...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c372 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes his case strongly, and I am obliged to him for that. Let me mention anothe...
Julian Lewis | 477 c372 (Link to this contribution) I emphasise that the hon. Gentleman makes a key point, particularly in the context of concern about ...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c372 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right and it took many years to try to put things right there. Clearly, we do not...
Jeremy Corbyn | 477 c372 (Link to this contribution) I imagine that the hon. Gentleman will recall the historic cases of miscarriages of justice—the Guil...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c372 (Link to this contribution) There seems to be quite a lot of evidence that detention, particularly in pre-charge detention condi...
Dari Taylor | 477 c369 (Link to this contribution) If I thought for one moment that the Bill would result in that scenario, I would not support the Gov...
Diane Abbott | 477 c369 (Link to this contribution) I entirely agree that none of us is perfect, but does my hon. Friend agree that it would be a highly...
Dari Taylor | 477 c368 (Link to this contribution) The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Of course, nobody in this House would ever want a...
Lord Redwood | 477 c368 (Link to this contribution) Did the hon. Lady also consider how many innocent people might be held for 42 days and then released...
Dari Taylor | 477 c369 (Link to this contribution) I have tried to conclude three times, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but here we go.
Dari Taylor | 477 c369 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend says it as it is. To date, I have not received one letter from my Muslim community. I...
Frank Cook | 477 c369 (Link to this contribution) As my parliamentary neighbour, I hope that my hon. Friend will consider the prospect that in support...
Dari Taylor | 477 c369 (Link to this contribution) As I just said, I have spoken to my Muslim community. I was very clear about addressing the issues a...
Mark Hunter | 477 c369 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Lady. Some of her hon. Friends have raised concerns about the legislation'...
Chris Huhne | 477 c348 (Link to this contribution) I am pleased to follow the right hon. Member for Leicester, East (Keith Vaz). In my speech, I shall ...
Keith Vaz | 477 c348 (Link to this contribution) No. I hope that the dialogue will continue, but I firmly believe that the Home Secretary has conduc...
Chris Huhne | 477 c349 (Link to this contribution) The point, surely, is that if the Home Secretary had evidence that the most serious offences had bee...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c348 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman realise that one of our amendments would limit the use of an extended period...
Keith Vaz | 477 c347 (Link to this contribution) I think that the money will be of great benefit to the people of Islington and Hackney, and to those...
Gordon Prentice | 477 c348 (Link to this contribution) Will my right hon. Friend give way?
Keith Vaz | 477 c348 (Link to this contribution) It is part of the debate, but it is not a conclusive part of the debate to say that because Jonathan...
Diane Abbott | 477 c349 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman accept that holding people for six weeks when they do not know what they are...
Baroness Featherstone | 477 c349 (Link to this contribution) The argument about increasing complexity is often put forward, but is there not a case for expanding...
Adrian Bailey | 477 c352 (Link to this contribution) May I read to the hon. Gentleman a quote from Sir Ian Blair's evidence to the Public Bill Committee?...
Chris Huhne | 477 c351-2 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Lady may not be aware of a rule of this House that sub judice proceedings can be discussed ...
Dari Taylor | 477 c351 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way again, and I assure him that I am listening to hi...
Chris Huhne | 477 c350-1 (Link to this contribution) I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman was not present for the Second Reading debate, as I remember that...
Chris Bryant | 477 c350 (Link to this contribution) How long does the hon. Gentleman think the detention period should be? Should it be one day, or two,...
Chris Huhne | 477 c350 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that intervention, but I specifically did not make a comparison with inquisitorial...
Dari Taylor | 477 c350 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman saying that Lord Carlile's statements to the Committee were inaccurate and mis...
Chris Huhne | 477 c349-50 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my hon. Friend, and she is of course absolutely right, but I want to make another p...
Frank Cook | 477 c396-7 (Link to this contribution) In one way that is a fair question, but it is totally unfair in another way. Any survey is based on ...
William Cash | 477 c397-8 (Link to this contribution) In a nutshell, the problem is as follows. The proposals before us contain a procedure for Parliament...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c398-9 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point, and I undertake to look very carefully at his new c...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c399 (Link to this contribution) My right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis) made no slur on the police ...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c399-400 (Link to this contribution) The clear implication of what the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis) said wa...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c400 (Link to this contribution) Will the Home Secretary answer the point that was made so properly by the hon. and learned Member fo...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c400 (Link to this contribution) I explained earlier the type of grave and exceptional threat that would be necessary, and I have exp...
Claire Ward | 477 c410 (Link to this contribution) The Ayes to the right, 315. The Noes to the left, 306. [Interruption.]
John Baron | 477 c389-90 (Link to this contribution) I will not follow the normal custom and say that it was a pleasure to listen to the speech by the ho...
Martin Salter | 477 c388-9 (Link to this contribution) I am happy to be selective in the quotes from Hugh Orde that I use for the purposes of my argument. ...
Lord Wilson of Sedgefield | 477 c396 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for giving way. My constituency of Sedgefield is adjacent to his constituency...
Frank Cook | 477 c396 (Link to this contribution) I will give way when I have finished my point, which is not humorous. Marginals should not enter thi...
Frank Cook | 477 c395-6 (Link to this contribution) I apologise for my late arrival. I did not arrive until after the opening speeches had begun, becaus...
John Baron | 477 c390-1 (Link to this contribution) My hon. Friend makes a valid point. The provision is far-reaching in its consequences and we have to...
Mark Durkan | 477 c392-3 (Link to this contribution) Many hon. Members have made the point that a number of the protections offered alongside the extende...
Gordon Marsden | 477 c376 (Link to this contribution) I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, not least because he has enormous experience of these ...
Diane Abbott | 477 c379-81 (Link to this contribution) As has been said throughout this debate, the first duty of Parliament is the safety of the realm. It...
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 477 c379 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; indeed, the Home Secretary gave the game away earlier today ...
Diane Abbott | 477 c381-2 (Link to this contribution) Yes, it was said that the proposals could be workable in the future. There are some very clever law...
Frank Cook | 477 c381 (Link to this contribution) Will my hon. Friend take account of the fact that even those chief police officers who have expresse...
Lord Redwood | 477 c378 (Link to this contribution) Would the right hon. and learned Gentleman not also concede that it is a cruel irony that we who are...
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 477 c377-8 (Link to this contribution) I regret to say that I do not share the conclusion drawn by the hon. Member for Blackpool, South (Mr...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 477 c379 (Link to this contribution) On the subject of Parliament considering individual cases, is it not inevitable that Members of this...
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem | 477 c378 (Link to this contribution) Of course, and that point has been made by some of those who have been cited in the debate as having...
Gordon Marsden | 477 c376-7 (Link to this contribution) No, I am sorry. I will not take any more interventions, as I am mindful that other people want to sp...
David TC Davies | 477 c383-5 (Link to this contribution) I have the near impossible task of following one of the finest speeches I have heard since being ele...
Martin Salter | 477 c388 (Link to this contribution) He certainly made it clear to the Committee that he would expect an adequate and strong case to be e...
David TC Davies | 477 c388 (Link to this contribution) Did Sir Ken not also say that he thought that it would be very hard indeed for the CPS to bring any ...
Martin Salter | 477 c386-8 (Link to this contribution) I regret taking that intervention. The Government have doubled resources for the security services a...
Tom Brake | 477 c386 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman agree that complexity, in terms of dealing with data discs and foreign langu...
Martin Salter | 477 c386 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is a member of the Home Affairs Committee, so I will give way.
Martin Salter | 477 c386 (Link to this contribution) I am not taking interventions. Other hon. Members want to speak and the hon. Gentleman has only just...
Martin Salter | 477 c385-6 (Link to this contribution) It is a pleasure, I think, to follow the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T.C. Davies), whose constit...
Baroness Hoey | 477 c372 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman and I agree with what he is saying. Does he agree that raising questions ...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c372 (Link to this contribution) I shall give way, but I hope that it will be the final time.
Lord Redwood | 477 c373 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful case. Does he agree that, under this procedure, arresting so...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c372-3 (Link to this contribution) That is absolutely right. Offering compensation seems to me a tacit admission that there is a fault ...
Mark Hendrick | 477 c373 (Link to this contribution) Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c373 (Link to this contribution) Again, that is a strong point and I am obliged to the right hon. Gentleman for making it. Today, we...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c373 (Link to this contribution) Yes, that is quite right. As a responsible Member of Parliament, I say that if any evidence had been...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c373 (Link to this contribution) Not at the moment. We heard from Lord Stevens that there is a real need for this measure and that s...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c374 (Link to this contribution) Indeed it does. I shall deal briefly with the safeguard—the parliamentary scrutiny. It is a complet...
David Howarth | 477 c374 (Link to this contribution) To add to what the hon. Gentleman is saying, the point that has just been made applies to any number...
Elfyn Llwyd | 477 c374 (Link to this contribution) Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that a control order would not immediately kick in, with intensive ...
Mark Hendrick | 477 c374 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. Is the evidence that he requires witnessing somebody bein...
Mark Durkan | 477 c376 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman says that he believes that hon. Members would be ingenious enough to handle the s...
Gordon Marsden | 477 c376 (Link to this contribution) I thank the hon. and learned Gentleman for that intervention. I have great respect for the fairness ...
Dominic Grieve | 477 c376 (Link to this contribution) As a Conservative, I do not subscribe to the separation of powers, but I do subscribe to the indepen...
Gordon Marsden | 477 c374-6 (Link to this contribution) I want to focus on new clause 20 and amendment (a). Like many Members, I was a teenager in the 1970s...
David Howarth | 477 c361 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman is making a very powerful case. Does he accept that the point made by the hon. an...
Baroness Smith of Malvern | 477 c326 (Link to this contribution) I believe that the threat now is greater and the safeguards are more real. I therefore hope that we ...
David Davis | 477 c330 (Link to this contribution) The hon. Gentleman has heard me any number of times say that we will listen to the evidence. As I de...
Nick Palmer | 477 c329 (Link to this contribution) Is the shadow Home Secretary saying that he rules out the possibility that at some point there will ...
Michael Mates | 477 c365 (Link to this contribution) I do not want to move into controversial areas, but the former Prime Minister took legal advice abou...
Chris Huhne | 477 c349 (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for the hon. Lady's intervention, and I entirely agree. Let me take the Government's ...
David Heath | 477 c393-5 (Link to this contribution) I return to something that was said a long time ago by the hon. Member for Meirionnydd Nant Conwy (M...
Mark Durkan | 477 c388 (Link to this contribution) Does the hon. Gentleman believe that we should also listen to Hugh Orde when he says that the Govern...
Lord Goodman of Wycombe | 477 c390 (Link to this contribution) If my hon. Friend reads the Government's new clause 20—one of the apparent concessions—he will see t...
Subjects
Compensation Civil liberties Crime prevention Criminal investigation Bail Administration of justice Detainees Evidence Police Parliamentary scrutiny Terrorism Security Habeas corpus
Legislation
Counter-terrorism Bill 2007-08
Link
View this Parliamentary proceeding on www.publications.parliament.uk