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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Tuesday, 9 May 2006, in the House of Lords.

Health Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
681 c351-404GC 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department of Health
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Palmer | 681 c360GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, perhaps I may inform the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, that Lord Simon of ...
Lord Monson | 681 c396GC (Link to this contribution) I have added my name to Amendment No. 37 and I support the extremely sensible Amendment No. 38—I mus...
Show all contributions (150)
Lord Warner | 681 c393-4GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Earl, Lord Howe, said, Amendment No. 35 seeks to time-limit requirements for no-smoking...
Lord Monson | 681 c379GC (Link to this contribution) Not only the Minister, but all those who are strongly in favour of smoking restrictions frequently c...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c386GC (Link to this contribution) Will the noble Earl be reassured to know that only one restaurant owner in Scotland and one individu...
Lord Naseby | 681 c356GC (Link to this contribution) I am most grateful that the noble Lord accepts it. In the other place, when an honourable Member rai...
Lord Naseby | 681 c355GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but the noble Lord cannot just stand up and accuse me of something. I hope I have now pr...
Lord Warner | 681 c358GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Faulkner made an error. He accepted that he made an error. I corrected his erro...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c356GC (Link to this contribution) I certainly have not come as a messenger boy for my noble friend; I was just seeking for the record ...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 681 c353GC (Link to this contribution) It is essential that this clause be retained in the Bill. I know that certain Members of the Committ...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c353-4GC (Link to this contribution) I support the clause and endorse everything that the noble Lord, Lord Walton, has said. I do not—as ...
Lord Palmer | 681 c369GC (Link to this contribution) I particularly support Amendment No. 27A. Being—looking around the Committee—the only Member who liv...
Lord Naseby | 681 c364GC (Link to this contribution) Given that the Edgware Road community is the largest Muslim community in terms of business, it would...
Lord Warner | 681 c362GC (Link to this contribution) The House of Lords can of course reject affirmative resolutions if it decides to do so by a majority...
Lord Warner | 681 c362GC (Link to this contribution) I am afraid that I do not understand the question, so it is difficult for me to answer it.
Lord Monson | 681 c361-2GC (Link to this contribution) Once again, the Minister has tried to reassure the Committee by saying that no further restrictions ...
Earl Howe | 681 c361GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may say briefly how grateful I am to the Minister for having considered so constructively ...
Lord Monson | 681 c364GC (Link to this contribution) Will the Minister undertake to study very carefully the extremely valuable research carried out by t...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c358-9GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, in his opposition to the Question, to which I am signatory. B...
Lord Monson | 681 c359GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Earl referred to Clause 2, but is he in fact talking about Clause 2 or Clause 4?
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c389GC (Link to this contribution) I confess that I was startled to hear that the signage regulations are likely to cost some £2 billio...
Earl Howe | 681 c389GC (Link to this contribution) I believe it will be £2 million.
Earl Howe | 681 c387-8GC (Link to this contribution) If I had to pick out one clause in the Bill that grates on me more than any other, it would be Claus...
Lord Naseby | 681 c388-9GC (Link to this contribution) I very much support what my noble friend has said. Norway and Sweden are reasonable examples. They d...
Lord Geddes | 681 c390GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but is it the same clause as originally tabled in the other place?
Lord Warner | 681 c391-2GC (Link to this contribution) Until we have spelt out the requirements in the regulations, it is difficult for the industry or any...
Lord Warner | 681 c392GC (Link to this contribution) It is not an arrestable offence. As I think I said—the noble Lord may want to check Hansard—it is in...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c392GC (Link to this contribution) I am most glad of the information as it has cleared up something in my mind. Will the Minister also ...
Earl Howe | 681 c395GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 37:"Page 6, line 3, at end insert—" ““(   )   No offence is committed under th...
Earl Howe | 681 c394-5GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister once again for his reply, which gives me more food for thought. I must accept t...
Earl Howe | 681 c398GC (Link to this contribution) Although the Minister very deftly batted my amendments to the boundary, I am sure he will accept tha...
Lord Warner | 681 c371-2GC (Link to this contribution) I say to the noble Lord, Lord Geddes, ““Don’t hold your breath””, but I will try to respond to the p...
Lord Warner | 681 c375GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think it is very useful for us to speculate about every conceivable aspect of human behavio...
Lord Skidelsky | 681 c375GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the noble Lord for that reply. I only hope that he realises, or will come to r...
Lord Warner | 681 c376GC (Link to this contribution) I suspect that most convertible cars are private vehicles. Unless there has been an outbreak of work...
Lord Palmer | 681 c376GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister made some reference to my workforce working 24 hours a day. They do not on a regular ba...
Earl Howe | 681 c381-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 33:"Page 4, line 45, leave out ““or descriptions of person”” and insert ““specif...
Lord Naseby | 681 c379-80GC (Link to this contribution) I want to make a few brief points. First, the Minister often prays in aid the fact that the affirmat...
Lord Warner | 681 c386GC (Link to this contribution) There is more to come. The only difference being that there is not the first option of a fixed penal...
Lord Warner | 681 c386GC (Link to this contribution) The maximum for level 4 is £2,500. My understanding—I will check the precise number—is that what we ...
Earl Howe | 681 c386GC (Link to this contribution) That was an extremely helpful reply from the Minister. It gives us a much clearer picture of what th...
Lord Warner | 681 c402-4GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments Nos. 39 and 41 both relate to the offence of failing to prevent smoking in a smoke-free p...
Lord Warner | 681 c404GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Monday at 3.30 pm.
Earl Howe | 681 c404GC (Link to this contribution) That was a very helpful reply from the Minister and I thank him for it. My concern in raising these ...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c355GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to go on about this, but all I am seeking to do is give the noble Lord the opportunity...
Lord Naseby | 681 c355GC (Link to this contribution) Let me make it clear. I sent a letter, of which I have a copy, to the Registrar, who determines what...
Lord Naseby | 681 c354GC (Link to this contribution) Can we deal with one question at a time?
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c357GC (Link to this contribution) There is a very simple answer to that: Roy Castle believed that he contracted lung cancer as a resul...
Lord Geddes | 681 c357GC (Link to this contribution) I was not going to intervene on this Motion that Clause 4 stands part. Indeed, I must apologise to t...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c357-8GC (Link to this contribution) Indeed, I would like to take the opportunity of correcting the second part of that, which my noble f...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c356GC (Link to this contribution) That leads me on to the second point I hope the noble Lord will be able to respond to: his comments ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c354GC (Link to this contribution) I have no idea what ““close proximity”” means in the context of primary legislation. I have no idea ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c365-6GC (Link to this contribution) I have absolutely no problem with a Minister conferring with his officials. My problem is that there...
Lord Warner | 681 c365GC (Link to this contribution) It is a convention in this House, as it is in the other place, that Ministers can confer with their ...
Earl Howe | 681 c366-8GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to the five amendments grouped in my name, Amendments Nos. 28 to 32 inclusive. As we ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c365GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 27A:"Page 3, line 38, at end insert—" ““(   )   The power to make regulations ...
Lord Warner | 681 c364GC (Link to this contribution) I am certainly willing to facilitate a discussion with the people concerned. I should be grateful to...
Lord Warner | 681 c364GC (Link to this contribution) I am phlegmatically resigned to going through the arguments again at Report and probably at Third Re...
Lord Monson | 681 c362GC (Link to this contribution) If an order was brought before us and it was rejected, would that essentially be the end of the stor...
Earl Howe | 681 c359GC (Link to this contribution) I have no problem with a power in the Bill for Ministers to make regulations to extend the scope of ...
Lord Warner | 681 c360-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, for his congratulations on my ability still to continu...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c371GC (Link to this contribution) I am most obliged to the noble Lord, Lord Monson, for that information. That is double the highest n...
Lord Monson | 681 c371GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may enlighten the noble Lord. It was not from the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister; the...
Lord Skidelsky | 681 c369GC (Link to this contribution) In supporting Amendment No. 27A, I ask the Minister a question. Am I right in believing that regulat...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 681 c369GC (Link to this contribution) Curiously, a pedal vehicle is, by definition, a vehicle. The clause talks about ““every kind of vehi...
Lord Warner | 681 c390GC (Link to this contribution) It is the same clause as was tabled in the other place.
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c389-90GC (Link to this contribution) That is a bit better. As I say, I was startled by the original figure, which I must have misheard. E...
Lord Warner | 681 c390-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am not sure that it does. I will try and deal with it in my response. I start with a core point. E...
Earl Howe | 681 c393GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 35:"After Clause 6, insert the following new clause—" ““DURATION OF SECTION 6 ...
Earl Howe | 681 c392-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his reply and for explaining the underlying thinking. He does have...
Lord Warner | 681 c396-7GC (Link to this contribution) I turn first to Amendment No. 37. I should say to the noble Earl that my understanding of the way in...
Lord Haskel | 681 c397GC (Link to this contribution) A Division has been called in the Chamber. The Committee stands adjourned for 10 minutes. [The Sitt...
Lord Warner | 681 c399GC (Link to this contribution) I do not want to go into detail, but I cannot resist rising very briefly because the noble Lord, Lor...
Lord Monson | 681 c399GC (Link to this contribution) Can the Minister tell us what is the loss suffered by the Irish Treasury from the decline in cigaret...
Earl Howe | 681 c399-400GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 39:"Page 6, line 6, at end insert—" ““(   )   A person on whom a duty is impos...
Lord Warner | 681 c398GC (Link to this contribution) Some would see ““antique”” as a term of approval. What I also said, if I may remind the noble Lord, ...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c401-2GC (Link to this contribution) This is an important issue. I understand what the noble Baroness said about charities and their resp...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c372GC (Link to this contribution) But suppose he has his butler in the car.
Lord Warner | 681 c372-4GC (Link to this contribution) Anyone who is behind any noble Lord who is rollerblading, scooting, cycling or on a tandem is at gre...
Lord Skidelsky | 681 c374-5GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether I have understood the Minister’s remarks correctly. A delivery van will be smoke-fr...
Lord Geddes | 681 c375GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, could I exemplify that point? I think I heard the noble Lord say that s...
Lord Palmer | 681 c375-6GC (Link to this contribution) I listened very carefully to what the Minister has said, but he did not mention what would happen to...
Lord Warner | 681 c376GC (Link to this contribution) As I understand the situation, if it is a shared vehicle, it is part of the workplace and it is encl...
Lord Naseby | 681 c376-7GC (Link to this contribution) I listened to the Minister, hoping that I would have no further questions to ask. Luckily, my noble ...
Lord Warner | 681 c377-8GC (Link to this contribution) I have tried to be as clear as possible on the guiding principle in determining whether a vehicle of...
Lord Naseby | 681 c378GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister has been very forthcoming, and I am grateful to him for providing the guidance. The Com...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c380GC (Link to this contribution) It is a bit ironic that Germany is setting us an example of civil liberty. Here we are taking people...
Lord Naseby | 681 c384GC (Link to this contribution) I shall speak to Amendment No. 42 and wish to add only one point to what my noble friend has just sa...
Earl Howe | 681 c383-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 34:"Page 5, line 24, leave out from ““exceeding”” to end of line 25 and insert “...
Lord Warner | 681 c386-7GC (Link to this contribution) I meant to say in my opening remarks that the figures I gave are maximum-level fines, and would prob...
Lord Naseby | 681 c386GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister. Perhaps I may clarify the position in relation to Scotland. Failing t...
Lord Haskel | 681 c404GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until Monday next.
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c355-6GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee will have to make up its own mind. I hope the noble Lord will let me finish this point...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c355GC (Link to this contribution) Of course I have. The interest I have declared on this Bill and in all other matters related to smok...
Lord Naseby | 681 c354-5GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord did a little more digging, he would find that in previous debates on smoking, not ...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c354GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think they are vague statements. I would hope that sports stadiums will be covered by the r...
Lord Geddes | 681 c358GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry, but I should like to pursue that, because that is not what the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner...
Lord Geddes | 681 c358GC (Link to this contribution) I accept what the Minister says. I have certainly not heard a correction from the noble Lord, Lord F...
Lord Monson | 681 c356-7GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, alleged that children might be at risk from people smoking in sports ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c356GC (Link to this contribution) I can verify that I was in the Chamber. If I did not listen with proper attention to the noble Lord,...
Lord Naseby | 681 c351-3GC (Link to this contribution) I start by thanking the Minister for providing the report on the experience in Norway. It made inter...
Earl of Liverpool | 681 c353GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Lord Naseby. I am concerned that Clause 4 is far too draconian. It states:...
Viscount Allenby of Megiddo | 681 c351GC (Link to this contribution) I remind noble Lords that if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee ...
Lord Monson | 681 c368GC (Link to this contribution) I have added my name to Amendments Nos. 27A and 28 on the belt-and-braces principle. The noble Earl ...
Lord Faulkner of Worcester | 681 c368GC (Link to this contribution) How does the noble Lord imagine that the existing seat-belts law is enforced?
Lord Monson | 681 c368-9GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, said from a sedentary position, it is only occasionally enforced, ...
Lord Warner | 681 c364-5GC (Link to this contribution) I have great respect for the insurance industry; I am sure it makes its commercial decisions on the ...
Lord Naseby | 681 c362-4GC (Link to this contribution) I appreciate what the Minister has said and obviously I will study his words when they become availa...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c359-60GC (Link to this contribution) Before the Minister replies, there is something I omitted to say. I think that I ought to draw it to...
Earl of Liverpool | 681 c360GC (Link to this contribution) I was interested in the quotation given by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, from the letter he receive...
Lord Walton of Detchant | 681 c360GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may answer the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart. The paper to which I referred ...
Earl Howe | 681 c359GC (Link to this contribution) I am talking about Clause 4, but, as we see, it refers to Clause 2 and gives Ministers power to expa...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c360GC (Link to this contribution) Rather than read the whole letter, perhaps I had better let the noble Earl have a copy of it. That w...
Lord Geddes | 681 c371GC (Link to this contribution) I wonder whether I can persuade the Minister—I have my doubts as to whether I will be able to do so—...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c370-1GC (Link to this contribution) There are a number of points on this clause. I support the amendment of course because I have added ...
Lord Wakeham | 681 c369-70GC (Link to this contribution) My brief comment will end up in the form of a question really. I raised the question of my boat last...
Earl of Liverpool | 681 c369GC (Link to this contribution) In which case I will proceed until somebody asks me to sit down. How on earth can you possibly polic...
Earl of Liverpool | 681 c369GC (Link to this contribution) Would the Minister like to respond to that question?
Earl Howe | 681 c387GC (Link to this contribution) That is a helpful comment. I am grateful also to the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, for telling us what ...
Lord Geddes | 681 c390GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend Lord Howe said that he could understand the reason for Clause 6. As the Bill origina...
Lord Monson | 681 c392GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Naseby, suggested that the Government propose to require all no-smoking signs b...
Lord Warner | 681 c392GC (Link to this contribution) I thought I had answered the point rather elegantly. I said—and the noble Lord, Lord Naseby, nodded ...
Earl of Liverpool | 681 c393GC (Link to this contribution) I support my noble friend Earl Howe, particularly because of what my noble friend Lord Geddes said d...
Lord Warner | 681 c398GC (Link to this contribution) I did not say it was ““archaic””, I said it was ““antique””.
Lord Monson | 681 c397-8GC (Link to this contribution) I do not know what the noble Earl, Lord Howe, is thinking of doing, but I am prepared to accept the ...
Lord Warner | 681 c397GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may make a small correction. In my opening remarks on Amendment No. 37 I talked about Clau...
Lord Warner | 681 c399GC (Link to this contribution) I do not have the figures to hand, but as is the case with the Irish Government, this Government hav...
Lord Naseby | 681 c398-9GC (Link to this contribution) I shall be brief, but this is the nub clause and it is as well to remember that between 25 and 30 pe...
Baroness Barker | 681 c400-1GC (Link to this contribution) I should like to address Amendment No. 41 principally. As I have said on other occasions, in my prof...
Lord Monson | 681 c374GC (Link to this contribution) I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the Minister for the speed and diligence with which he rep...
Lord Warner | 681 c374GC (Link to this contribution) My understanding is that outside our waters the legislation does not apply, but I will check the sit...
Lord Warner | 681 c375GC (Link to this contribution) I made it absolutely clear what the scientific base was for second-hand smoke, even when not visible...
Lord Stoddart of Swindon | 681 c375GC (Link to this contribution) I have one other question for the Minister. I am most grateful for the explanations he has given, bu...
Earl of Liverpool | 681 c376GC (Link to this contribution) I should like to ask the Minister about convertible cars. They are partially enclosed but not when t...
Lord Monson | 681 c378GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that pool cars, or cars used by more than one person, would not be covered. The Bi...
Earl Howe | 681 c378-9GC (Link to this contribution) Welcome as government Amendment No. 102 is, and welcome as the Minister’s assurance is that he will ...
Lord Warner | 681 c378GC (Link to this contribution) I said that pool cars used by more than one person would be covered.
Earl Howe | 681 c383GC (Link to this contribution) These things are always a matter of judgment. I accept that in this case it may be a matter of fine ...
Lord Warner | 681 c382-3GC (Link to this contribution) We expect that smoke-free legislation will be self-enforcing. Based on international experience of i...
Lord Warner | 681 c380-1GC (Link to this contribution) There is not a lot I can add to what I said earlier. I shall just repeat that road vehicles which ar...
Lord Warner | 681 c384-6GC (Link to this contribution) Let me say at the outset that the power to specify levels of fines in relation to offences under the...
Subjects
Aircraft Boats Fixed penalties Health hazards Ferries Fines Large goods vehicles Motor vehicles Public places Passive smoking Sportsgrounds Smoking Tractors Sunset clauses
Legislation
Health Bill 2005-06
Link
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