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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Tuesday, 18 October 2005, in the House of Lords.

Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill [HL]

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
674 c181-232GC 
Session
2005-06
Department
Wales Office
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Deposited Paper HDEP 2005/473
Thursday, 20 October 2005
Deposited papers
House of Lords
Proceeding contributions
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c218-9GC (Link to this contribution) In introducing the debate I neglected to speak to Amendments Nos. 47 and 85. These also stand in my ...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c223GC (Link to this contribution) This group of amendments gets to the nub of the Bill, which has now clearly emerged. The commissione...
Show all contributions (106)
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c223GC (Link to this contribution) Presumably my noble friend means the Children’s Commissioner for Wales..
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c230-1GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 34 would call upon the commissioner to produce an annual report. We hope that the Mini...
Lord Brougham and Vaux | 674 c232GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee stands adjourned until next Wednesday at 3.30 pm.
Lord Rowlands | 674 c197GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I may briefly pursue the point I raised about whistle-blowers—I hope that my noble friend di...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c189-90GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 6:"Page 12, line 16, at end insert—" ““(   )   as to the relevant organisation...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c186-7GC (Link to this contribution) I want to comment on the Henry VIII clauses and on the report on the Bill of the Delegated Powers an...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c224-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 27:"Page 1, line 15, leave out subsection (2)." The noble Lord said: The amendm...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c227GC (Link to this contribution) Again, first, that question is encouraging me to say something that is not within my power to say. S...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c227GC (Link to this contribution) Did I hear the Minister say that this Government wish to respect the wishes of the Assembly so far a...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c227GC (Link to this contribution) Indeed, I suggest that it may be the best way to proceed because that is the nature of the devolutio...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c228GC (Link to this contribution) I shall respond briefly to what the noble Lord has just said. I wholly agree with the principles tha...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c228GC (Link to this contribution) I have absolutely no information that I am not sharing with my colleagues here in this interesting d...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c217-8GC (Link to this contribution) There is a cart before the horse scenario there. I refer to Amendment No. 24, which states that the ...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c218GC (Link to this contribution) The hope and expectation is that there will be a high level of compliance by providers of care with ...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c217GC (Link to this contribution) That would be a perfectly legitimate and proper use of his influence, but there is a world of differ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c232GC (Link to this contribution) This may be a convenient moment for the Committee to adjourn until Wednesday 26 October at 3.30 pm.
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c229GC (Link to this contribution) The Government agree with the spirit of the amendment standing in the names of the noble Lord, Lord ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c211-2GC (Link to this contribution) My Lords, I propose to speak to Amendments Nos. 20, 21, 60, 25 and 26 in that order, all of which se...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c216-7GC (Link to this contribution) Yes, I would hope that he would have that discretion, and it would be sensible to take them into acc...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c213-4GC (Link to this contribution) The Assembly and the Government therefore consider that adequate provision for dealing with the subj...
Viscount Ullswater | 674 c213GC (Link to this contribution) The Committee is adjourned for a Division. We will resume in 10 minutes. [The Sitting was suspended...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c210-1GC (Link to this contribution) I accept the welcome support of the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy. The need for Amendment No. 25...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c208-9GC (Link to this contribution) I start by making a general point which I hope will be helpful. The term ““discrimination”” is used ...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c209GC (Link to this contribution) I want to indicate to the Committee that I wish to decouple my amendment from this group. I think th...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c197GC (Link to this contribution) May I first answer my noble friend’s second point? Given the complexity of the legal term ““qualifie...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c196GC (Link to this contribution) Will the whistle-blowers themselves be covered by the provision?
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c200GC (Link to this contribution) I believe that Amendment No. 12, which deals with the sharing of information and reciprocal arrangem...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c193-4GC (Link to this contribution) As someone who had a lot to do with the Welsh Language Act 1993—that seems a very long time ago—I fe...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c194GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the noble Lords, Lord Livsey and Lord Roberts of Llandudno, for tabling the amendment. It is...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c194-5GC (Link to this contribution) As we have heard, this amendment would enable the Assembly to make regulations that may include prov...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c181-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1:"Page 12, line 6, leave out ““to be regarded as””" The noble Lord said: Befor...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c182-3GC (Link to this contribution) First, I, too, thank the Minister for the information that he provided about the Bill. It has been u...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c183-4GC (Link to this contribution) I accept the gentle and elegant rebuke of the noble Lord, Lord Roberts. He is, of course, absolutely...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c187-9GC (Link to this contribution) In responding to Amendment No. 3, I propose to speak to Amendment No. 5 before turning to Amendments...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c189GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the Minister for his reply. I am also grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, for ...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c200GC (Link to this contribution) I shall raise one point, which may be convenient for the Minister. It relates to Amendment No. 113, ...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c200GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to be pernickety, but can my noble friend clarify what paragraph 21 will look like after ...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c201GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 13:"Page 1, line 8, leave out ““may”” and insert ““shall””" The noble Lord said...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c207-8GC (Link to this contribution) As I understand it, Amendment No. 17 gives the noble Lord an opportunity to clarify that the commiss...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c205-6GC (Link to this contribution) I shall deal first with Amendments Nos. 15, 29, 30, 45, and 11 tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Livsey...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c224GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord. Yes, of course there are such agencies. It is when they fail that someo...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c226-7GC (Link to this contribution) I shall start by making a general point. The noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Llandudno, wishes to revisi...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c223GC (Link to this contribution) The Welsh Children’s Commissioner does not have these powers either. This has been an interesting a...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c217GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, has raised a very important point of principle, and I find some of hi...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c231GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 33:"Page 2, line 6, leave out paragraph (b)." The noble Lord said: This is a pr...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c232GC (Link to this contribution) We have raised some important subjects here. These are both still pretty nebulous areas, even after ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c231-2GC (Link to this contribution) Amendments Nos. 33 and 35 concern restricting the commissioner’s Clause 3 powers to review the disch...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c230GC (Link to this contribution) It would appear that my noble friend has spotted something which we must take away and look at. I am...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c229GC (Link to this contribution) As indeed am I. My noble friend asks why the term ““monitor”” is not used in Clause 3 but is used in...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c229GC (Link to this contribution) We on these Benches think that the amendment strengthens the Bill. We have listened to what the nobl...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c216GC (Link to this contribution) Has the noble Lord considered that the commissioner surely has discretion as to what he puts forward...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c214-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 23:"Page 1, line 14, at end insert—" ““(   )   be given the power to enforce t...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c215-6GC (Link to this contribution) I should like to explore the consequences of accepting Amendment No. 23, which suggests that the com...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c212-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend for making those points. I apologise if I have in any way misquoted...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c209GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reassurance regarding training. I believe we have reached the stage whe...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c210GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 20:"Page 1, line 13, leave out ““effectiveness”” and insert ““effective implemen...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c211GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 21, which stands in my name, can conveniently be taken in this group. I believe that t...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c208GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 80, in my name, has been grouped with Amendment Nos. 17 and 18. I would prefer to degr...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c197-8GC (Link to this contribution) What I am about to say follows on from what the noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, said, although my remarks...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c195-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 11:"Page 14, line 4, leave out sub-paragraph (5)." The noble Lord said: In movi...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c198GC (Link to this contribution) In response to my noble friend Lord Rowlands and the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, we need to c...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c193GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 7:"Page 12, line 16, at end insert—" ““(   )   as to the desirability of the C...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c192GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 6 raises a very important issue—namely, how the commissioner will work with the commis...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c192-3GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response. In no way was I trying to sabotage Amendment No. 100, which r...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c195GC (Link to this contribution) I thank those who have taken part in this brief discussion. I see that you are with me in spirit if ...
Baroness Turner of Camden | 674 c181GC (Link to this contribution) Before I put the Question that the Title be postponed, may I remind your Lordships of two points of ...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c184-5GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord has given us the assurance that we need on the independence of the commissioner, and ...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c186GC (Link to this contribution) The question of reappointment in Amendment No. 3 is perfectly acceptable. Whether there will be a re...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c202-3GC (Link to this contribution) Obviously this is a very important matter. We all want the same thing—that is, the best, most excell...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c202GC (Link to this contribution) We support the amendment. If you promote, it is like pointing a finger at someone and saying, ““Aha,...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c200-1GC (Link to this contribution) The answer to the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Conwy, is that we have no legislation in mind at the m...
Viscount Ullswater | 674 c206GC (Link to this contribution) A Division has been called. We will adjourn for 10 minutes. [The Sitting was suspended for a Divisi...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c205GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 15 inserts the word ““rights”” and I support it. The explanatory paper produced by the...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c204-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 15:"Page 1, line 9, after ““interests”” insert ““and rights””" The noble Lord s...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c225-6GC (Link to this contribution) I shall follow my noble friend with some figures from the CAB. In its last report, it stated that 88...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c227-8GC (Link to this contribution) I heard what the noble Lord, Lord Rowlands, has just said and if one takes note, in particular, of w...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c223-4GC (Link to this contribution) Whether the powerful statutory agencies to deal with food safety have failed to discharge their duti...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c223GC (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend confirm that the Children’s Commissioner does not have such important powers ei...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c219-23GC (Link to this contribution) I propose to speak to Amendments Nos. 23, 47 and 85, and then turn to Amendment No. 24. The effect ...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c229GC (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend confirm that, notwithstanding the wording of Clause 5(1), the commissioner’s po...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c228-9GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 31:"Page 2, line 3, after ““review”” insert ““and monitor””" The noble Lord sai...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c230GC (Link to this contribution) Did I hear my noble friend say that Clause 14 allows for the publication of the report? As I read su...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c230GC (Link to this contribution) The intention of the amendment is to place a requirement on the face of the Bill for the commissione...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c230GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 32:"Page 2, line 3, after ““review”” insert ““and shall publish a report on””" ...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c229-30GC (Link to this contribution) Were it not for the fact that I hope to be the dinner bell of this Committee, we could go on arguing...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c212GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to intervene. I did not appreciate that my amendment on research has been grouped with th...
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff | 674 c211GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment to which the noble Lord has spoken. Without gathering information and clearl...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c214GC (Link to this contribution) I began by saying that this was a very mixed bag of amendments and I think we have seen that during ...
Lord Rowlands | 674 c197GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful and appreciate that it would be far better to have a considered view on the matte...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c196-7GC (Link to this contribution) I am advised that they will not. The commissioner will also have the power to examine individual ca...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c198-200GC (Link to this contribution) In moving Amendment No. 12, I shall first speak to government Amendments Nos. 107 and 62, followed b...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c190-2GC (Link to this contribution) Before addressing the points raised by the noble Lord, Lord Livsey of Talgarth, I hope that he will ...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c195GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 10:"Page 13, line 11, after ““by”” insert ““any person including””" On Question...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c185-6GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3:"Page 12, line 12, after ““appointment”” insert ““and re-appointment””" The n...
Lord Prys-Davies | 674 c202GC (Link to this contribution) I have had difficulties with the two standards referred to in the Bill, as have the noble Lords, Lor...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c201GC (Link to this contribution) I can understand where the Minister and the Assembly are coming from, but we wanted to ensure that t...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c201GC (Link to this contribution) Amendment No. 13, standing in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Livsey of Talgarth and Lord Roberts...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c201-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 14:"Page 1, line 9, after first ““of”” insert ““and safeguard best””" The noble...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c203-4GC (Link to this contribution) I am getting rather worried by some of the expressions used and by the attitude expressed by the Min...
Lord Roberts of Llandudno | 674 c206-7GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 17:"Page 1, line 10, at end insert ““indirect and direct””" The noble Lord said...
Lord Livsey of Talgarth | 674 c206GC (Link to this contribution) I am very grateful to the Minister for that acknowledgement of the situation with which we are confr...
Lord Evans of Temple Guiting | 674 c206GC (Link to this contribution) As I was saying just as we were interrupted by the vote, it seems that the intention of the noble Lo...
Lord Roberts of Conwy | 674 c205GC (Link to this contribution) As the noble Lord, Lord Livsey, has explained, he has tabled a series of amendments aimed at emphasi...
Subjects
Equality Functions Public appointments Older people Wales Welsh language Commissioner for Older People in Wales
Legislation
Commissioner for Older People (Wales) Bill (HL) 2005-06
Link
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