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Debate on bill and Committee proceeding on Monday, 5 December 2005, in the House of Lords.

Civil Aviation Bill

Secondary information

Type
Parliamentary proceeding
Reference
676 c53-106GC 
Session
2005-06
Department
Department for Transport
Committee of the Whole House (HL)
Legislative stage
Committee stage
Procedure
New clauses
Chamber / Committee
House of Lords Grand Committee
Related items
Proceeding contributions
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c103-4GC (Link to this contribution) It would have been immensely helpful if the Secretary of State had replied earlier to the detailed s...
Show all contributions (117)
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c104GC (Link to this contribution) It reads:"““Relief from liability in the event of war etc””." It is not wholly appropriate because ...
Lord Haskel | 676 c98GC (Link to this contribution) I apologise to the noble Lord for the hiatus at the beginning of his speech, but the noble Lord, Lor...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c97GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the noble Lord for the way in which he moved his amendment. Section 78 does not pro...
Baroness Hanham | 676 c82GC (Link to this contribution) Perhaps I should change my style—there is an opportunity—but for this amendment I will keep my happy...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c94-5GC (Link to this contribution) I am extremely grateful to my noble friend Lord Smith. I was going to refer to Manchester Airport, b...
Baroness Hanham | 676 c73-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 4:"Page 2, line 24, at end insert—" ““(3A)   The Secretary of State shall repo...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c73GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for that reply. We are certainly not going to get into a debate about the futur...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c68GC (Link to this contribution) I hope that he will reply. I wish to say a few words of appreciation for British Airways, which has ...
Lord Haskel | 676 c104-5GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord would like to withdraw his amendment, it can be tabled again on Report, and he can...
Countess of Mar | 676 c104GC (Link to this contribution) I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord but I do not think that there is a procedure whereby the Comm...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c105-6GC (Link to this contribution) I have a great deal of sympathy with the point being made by my noble friend and I recognise that th...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c106GC (Link to this contribution) I beg to move the adjournment of the Committee until two o’clock on Thursday next.
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c105GC (Link to this contribution) On the submission made by the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, I am a little bemused whether we can co...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c97-8GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 25:"Page 7, line 9, after ““scheme”” insert ““which shall be proportional to the...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c96GC (Link to this contribution) We had a useful debate and there may be some ways in which we can move forward together. I beg leave...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c96-7GC (Link to this contribution) I believe that in most law the upholding of standards is a matter of a definite requirement on the p...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c96GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 14:"Page 3, line 35, leave out ““may”” and insert ““shall””" The noble Lord sai...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c96GC (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, tell us why there should be an obligation to introduce a statutor...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c97GC (Link to this contribution) I cannot meet the noble Lord on his amendment and I shall ask him to withdraw it, but I recognise th...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c80-1GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to the two noble Lords who have contributed to this debate—three, if I count the inter...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c84GC (Link to this contribution) In which way does the noble Lord suggest that the situation under the Bill is less strict than under...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c82-4GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 9:"Page 2, line 41, leave out subsection (2)." The noble Lord said: Clause 2(2)...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c84GC (Link to this contribution) We do not have a quota. The number of flights is the important thing. We would move in due course to...
Lord Smith of Leigh | 676 c93GC (Link to this contribution) Policy schemes exist at the moment—we seem to be talking as though they are a new thing. They do exi...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c90GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his response. We have debated the matter and, as the noble Lord, Lord Brads...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c89GC (Link to this contribution) I am trying to emphasise that we are looking considerably into the future.
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c89GC (Link to this contribution) Surely it can wait until then, can it not? That would keep confidence where confidence exists.
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c86-7GC (Link to this contribution) I have several significant points to reply to on this very important debate. If the Committee will a...
Lord Berkeley | 676 c86GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, have received letters from local authorities, around Heathrow in particular. When I stay in ...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c85GC (Link to this contribution) I support the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield. I, too, have had representations from local authorities...
Lord Soley | 676 c65-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am trying to avoid a war of attrition. But many involved in airport operations know that they can ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c61GC (Link to this contribution) The danger is in the definition. We have a regime in place, which, as we indicated, we think will wo...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c61GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister said that Gatwick, Stansted and Heathrow were designated airports and that that is as f...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c57GC (Link to this contribution) Should there not be some sort of consultation on the important issue that my noble friend raises?
Lord Soley | 676 c57-8GC (Link to this contribution) I am all for a bit more consultation but my consultation with the Airport Operators Association was ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c59GC (Link to this contribution) I wish to correct an omission. I failed to declare an interest in that I am the president of the Bri...
Lord Carter | 676 c53GC (Link to this contribution) I remind noble Lords of two points of procedure: noble Lords will speak standing, and the House has ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c75GC (Link to this contribution) I have certain reservations about the amendment. It is as though Members of Parliament and noble Lor...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c75GC (Link to this contribution) I support what the noble Baroness, Lady Hanham, said. Consistency and transparency are needed in the...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c72-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to my noble friend. We have had in microcosm the national debate that we had when we w...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c71GC (Link to this contribution) The airport that I know best is Stansted, which comes within four local authorities—two county counc...
Lord Soley | 676 c68GC (Link to this contribution) I was going to ask whether it was in order to be given a further response; however, I gather that no...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c104GC (Link to this contribution) The difficulty is that we have not had an opportunity to see the amendment that the noble Lord, Lord...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c104GC (Link to this contribution) My grouped Amendment No. 44B will be discussed on Thursday. Therefore, we shall have the chance to r...
Lord Haskel | 676 c104GC (Link to this contribution) If the noble Lord would like to withdraw his amendment, it can then be brought back on Report. Durin...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c104GC (Link to this contribution) No, it is not that one. It is the one below that.
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c104GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend was suggesting that he has not seen it either. It cannot be the pets passports one.
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c105GC (Link to this contribution) That is why I asked for the amendments to be decoupled. I have a long briefing which I received only...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c106GC (Link to this contribution) The thought of coming back at a quarter past two in the morning is beyond me. I cannot go on until t...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c101-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am not the slightest bit averse to returning to the matter on Thursday. We are guaranteed that by ...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c101GC (Link to this contribution) I have a similar amendment and that is why I asked for it to be degrouped. The amendments cover slig...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c99GC (Link to this contribution) I note what the Minister says. I have not got to hand an indication of what the penalties for breach...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c95-6GC (Link to this contribution) The debate was useful, and there may be issues for us to explore here. The noble Lord, Lord Smith, r...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c97GC (Link to this contribution) I was certainly not intending to regulate Barra, Scilly or the Shetland Isles. I was referring to ae...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c81GC (Link to this contribution) If an aircraft is found to be in breach of noise limits, and although it is supposed to conform to I...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c84GC (Link to this contribution) At the moment, it is calculated on the number of flights, which is transparent and understandable. O...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c76-7GC (Link to this contribution) Does the Minister accept that tackling aircraft emissions by means of emissions trading is abject su...
Lord Berkeley | 676 c77GC (Link to this contribution) I shall come into this debate on emissions trading because I have just received an interesting artic...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c78GC (Link to this contribution) I do not think that any noble Lord was seeking to confute that position. I am glad that my noble fri...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c80GC (Link to this contribution) I support the amendment, because this sort of fairly long-term signal ought to be sent to the indust...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c80GC (Link to this contribution) Can the noble Lord give the Committee particulars of where older aircraft are being used?
Lord Smith of Leigh | 676 c93-4GC (Link to this contribution) It is consulted on, and the implementation of the scheme is a matter for the consultative committee ...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c90-2GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 13:"Page 3, leave out lines 34 to 36 and insert—" ““(1)   The Secretary of Sta...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c89-90GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord will recognise that our opportunities are not unlimited. It is only right that, when ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c87GC (Link to this contribution) The briefing that has been circulated by the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead states emphatic...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c84GC (Link to this contribution) I have had representations from virtually every London borough, backed by their legal offices, and f...
Countess of Mar | 676 c85-6GC (Link to this contribution) I, too, have received letters from local authorities. I am extremely fortunate in that I live out in...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c62-5GC (Link to this contribution) If my noble friend exercises a little patience, he will see that I have, as yet, given only a very s...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c66-7GC (Link to this contribution) That is an extremely persuasive plea, as is the position adopted by my noble friend Lord Soley. I do...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c55-6GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lords, Lord Hanningfield and Lord Bradshaw, have raised useful points which I hope my nobl...
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall | 676 c58GC (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend take note in his reply of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, on ...
Lord Berkeley | 676 c58-9GC (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as president of the Aviation Environment Federation. I like my noble friend’s ...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c55GC (Link to this contribution) My name is not attached to this group of amendments but they go to the heart of what the Bill is abo...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c72GC (Link to this contribution) The problem that my noble friend faces, as we all do, is that to give anyone a veto in this matter i...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c71-2GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, that local authorities deserve to play a greater par...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c68GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful for that remark. It is important that we end this part of the discussion on as positiv...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c68-9GC (Link to this contribution) We have had an interesting and long debate on the first group of amendments. I thank the Minister fo...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c69GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 3:"Page 2, line 21, after ““authority”” insert ““with the agreement of the local...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c68GC (Link to this contribution) They apply to all licensed airports. I emphasised designated airports because the amendments tabled ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c104GC (Link to this contribution) Then I shall go on for about 20 minutes.
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c105GC (Link to this contribution) I do not understand what is meant by,"““Relief from liability in the event of war etc””."
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c105GC (Link to this contribution) I believe that the noble Lord is more interested in ““etc”” rather than the war. That is just the ti...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c103GC (Link to this contribution) We are in difficult areas here. I think my noble friend will recognise that we are aware of the insu...
Lord Berkeley | 676 c103GC (Link to this contribution) Regarding my noble friend’s comments on insurance, will he confirm that if there is a problem with t...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c98-9GC (Link to this contribution) It gives me the most inordinate pleasure to pronounce the word ““logarithm”” for the first time for ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c99-101GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 28:"After Clause 4, insert the following new clause—" ““LIABILITY FOR ACTS OF ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c96GC (Link to this contribution) Indeed, we do not intend that this legislation should in any way inhibit good practice. As the noble...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c97GC (Link to this contribution) I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. [Amendments Nos. 15 to 22 n...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c81-2GC (Link to this contribution) I understand that, but not if the action appears to carry that arbitrary quality that noble Lord ind...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c80GC (Link to this contribution) I shall give the simple example of Coventry airport, where the lives of people living around it are ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c84GC (Link to this contribution) Why could there not be a quota under the 1982 Act?
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c77GC (Link to this contribution) The noble Lord is ignoring the situation. In my experience, responsible airlines already apply, and ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c78GC (Link to this contribution) Will my noble friend strenuously point out that British Airways, the main British airline, has contr...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c77-8GC (Link to this contribution) Of course there are problems about the trading scheme. As the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, accurately ...
Baroness Hanham | 676 c78-9GC (Link to this contribution) I thank the Minister for his reply and noble Lords for their contributions. I am slightly at a loss:...
Baroness Hanham | 676 c79GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 5:"Page 2, line 28, at end insert—" ““(   )   The Secretary of State shall rev...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c93GC (Link to this contribution) So in Manchester there is a voluntary scheme and the consultative committee is involved in the spend...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c92-3GC (Link to this contribution) I am not persuaded that the remedy sought by the noble Lord, Lord Hanningfield, is desirable. At pre...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c87-8GC (Link to this contribution) It is unfounded. I intend to develop the argument which establishes that point. I am grateful to my ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c85GC (Link to this contribution) I have listened to what the noble Lord has said, and it is necessary to involve oneself in consultat...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c88-9GC (Link to this contribution) I am having a job in understanding this. Following the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, ...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c84GC (Link to this contribution) I normally find the noble Lord very compelling, but on this occasion I cannot see it. Under the Bill...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c66GC (Link to this contribution) I agree with my noble friend but I am nonplussed about where my friend thinks local authorities figu...
Lord Clinton-Davis | 676 c61-2GC (Link to this contribution) My noble friend has mentioned the role of local authorities. Where in the Bill are local authorities...
Lord Berkeley | 676 c67GC (Link to this contribution) On the Environment Act and the duty on local authorities, try to imagine Hounslow deciding that it n...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c61GC (Link to this contribution) Further to the Minister’s remarks, none of our amendments would result in very prescriptive primary ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c59-61GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to our debate. Some parts of it may be repeate...
Lord Soley | 676 c56-7GC (Link to this contribution) I declare an interest as campaign director of Future Heathrow. I want to draw attention to Amendment...
Lord Hanningfield | 676 c53-5GC (Link to this contribution) moved Amendment No. 1:"Page 1, line 7, after ““below,”” insert ““and having ensured that sufficient ...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c75-6GC (Link to this contribution) I am grateful to noble Lords who have contributed to this short debate. In particular I am grateful ...
Lord Soley | 676 c72GC (Link to this contribution) The Minister will be relieved to hear me say that it would be a great mistake to agree to this amend...
Lord Smith of Leigh | 676 c70-1GC (Link to this contribution) I declare two interests: one is as a director of Manchester Airport and the other is as leader of a ...
Lord Bradshaw | 676 c68GC (Link to this contribution) There is one thing that I want to be absolutely clear about. I have listened patiently to all the re...
Lord Davies of Oldham | 676 c67-8GC (Link to this contribution) The whole point is that they will not be expected to do that on their own—very far from it. This Bil...
Subjects
Appeals Aviation Air pollution Competition Aircraft Airports Airlines Fees and charges Liability Fines Insurance Exhaust emissions Heathrow Airport Powers Management Pollution control Monitoring Noise Night flying Terrorism Sustainable development Stansted Airport Gatwick Airport
Legislation
Civil Aviation Bill 2005-06
Link
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